Found a pigeon, can he/she feed himself

[jimothy]

Hi

My wife and I found a pigeon in our driveway this morning. From looking at Sara's pics I would say he is about 4 weeks old, maybe a little less. Most of his wing feathers are grown but he still has traces of down on top of all his feathers.

We think he must have been out on the ground all night last night without being eaten which is a bit of a miracle. So far today we have dripped water onto his head which caused him to raise his neck and try to catch some of the drips. This has seemed to perk him up a lot already. An adult pigeon has been roosting in a branch over him most of the day. Is this likely to be a parent? Unfortunately dusk is now approaching and I'm worried predators will take him. We are near the mountains north of LA and so get coyotes, racoons, possums etc.

I have now put him in a box with tirn up newspaper, some water and some crushed cereal in water in there with him. At the moment the box is on the ground outside as I was nervous about removing him from the place the mother knows he is at. Should I move the box or leave it? I have two large dogs in the house and secured back yard so I can't really bring him in there.

Assuming he makes it through the night I was planning on taking him back out of the box tomorrow so I can try to reunite the family again. However, should I be hand feeding him or will he eat from a bowl? Also, should I be feeding him anything in particular.

Thanks for the help

Jim

[KIPPY]

I would bring the bird in, leaving him outside is not a good idea.

[bklowe]

I would not leave this bird outside. From your description it sounds as if s/he is likely still being fed by the parents ( I did not see Sara's pictures ). But I would make sure s/he is kept warm and out of draft's. Monitor his food and water containers to determine if s/he is trying to eat/drink. If you have any bird seed you could put that in the container also.
Thanks for helping this youngster. I am sure others will be along to help also.

[Rockie]

To repeat...definitely bring the box with the baby pigeon inside. He would be very lucky to make it through the night outside on the ground.

Don't be afraid to keep him in your house tonight, in the box, where no other pets can get to him. Someplace quiet and warm is good, even if it is a closet for the night.

Good luck. I'm sure someone else will respond with baby pigeon feeding etc. info. Thanks for helping the little baby.

[KIPPY]

The bird is too low to the ground the parent will not go near it (especially at night.) I've tried that with baby pigeons and they died. I have never had any luck reuniting baby pigeons with parents that fell out of the tree. Sparrows and some other birds, I have had luck but for me it never worked with pigeons.
I would bring the little guy inside and put him on a heating pad set on low in a confined area. The birds I find end up in my laundry room. I would put a small bowl of water and a bowl of wild bird seed. You can introduce him to the water by dipping the Tip of his beak to it or maybe splashing it to get his curiosity going. Same with the food put some on the towel and see what he does. I think he should be able to eat bird seed.

Someone should be on soon to help you out.

[Reti]

Please, listen to the advice the other members gave you.
Bring him inside and give him food and water.
If you don't have any seeds, you can give him thawed peas, corn, lentils, anything small enough he can eat, the crushed cereal is ok too.
Make sure he eats and drinks.

If you take him in for the night and then put him back out in the morning, please make sure he can fly. If he cannot fly, I would not leave him out there by himself, even if the parents are around.
From what you describe it should be only a matter of days until he can fly.

Please, keep us updated on this baby.
Thank you so much for caring for him. Good luck.

Reti

[TAWhatley]

Hi Jim,

Yes, the baby definitely needs to be brought in for the night and cared for. If you are anywhere near the Ojai Raptor Center (Oakview, CA), please contact me ASAP by e-mail at TAWhatley@earthlink.net or by phone at (949) 584-6696, and I will put you in touch with a pigeon rehabber from there. Her name is Beth Garcia, and she can help you with the bird.

You can also check our resources list at http://www.pigeons.com/prd.htm to see if there is anyone closer who can help you out. Don't hesitate to call any of these people .. they volunteered to be there for situations exactly like this.

Terry

[jimothy]

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

I have brought the box inside now. Unfortunately I can't bring him into the house as the dogs have a very keen sense of smell and will be after him. They have some terrier in them so they are very persistent. As a compromise I have put it into our garage which is the same temperature as the house.

I was going to take a photo but the battery is dead in my digital camera. I will try to get one in the morning. He seems to have some sort of lid over his eye which is almost always closed. I have only seen an eyeball a couple of times briefly and when I opened the box to the light he just staggers aimlessly around the box banging into the edges. Does their vision not develop right away because its almost as if he was blind at the moment? He also seems to vary between tucking his head very low and then throwing it right back onto his back so his beak is vertically upwards. Does this suggest he was still being fed by his mother? When do they move from soft food to solids? He had already pooped in teh box, is this a relatively good sign. I'm assuming its encouraging as it means he ate relatively recently.

I'm guessing his age from the pictures on the homepage and also that he was already bigger than the adult who was watching him but is it possible he is a younger bird. The throwing his head back behaviour made me think twice.

Thanks again for your help. I'm in Altadena CA so about 80 miles from the nearest person on the list. Hopefully I will be able to keep him going myself for now at least. If I can protect him from predators I already feel much better.

Jim

[KIPPY]

when I opened the box to the light he just staggers aimlessly around the box banging into the edges.
Has the pij just recently started doing this?
He seems to have some sort of lid over his eye which is almost always closed.
If you can get a picture of the eye that would be helpful.
I would put him on a heating pad set at low. As soon as you are able to get a picture posted it would be easier for someone to help you. Kinda a curious on what the droppings look like.

Have you noticed the pij trying to eat and drink? I would definately use a heating pad if you have one on hand.

[jimothy]

I just managed to snap a couple of pictures. Sorry to be a bit of a luddite but can I post them here, and if so how?

I also just went to get some seed mix at the pet store and have put some of that in the box. The poop has dried now but was all white and fairly fluid. When we found him he was stationary and with his feathers puffed up. Since getting some water he has been more active but still seems to have very little spatial awareness.

[jimothy]

ok, lets see if I managed to attach the images. Sorry for my probably atrocious bird handling.

[cats6birds4]

Hi Jim,

Im the rehabber that Terry mentioned in her earlier post. I'm in Ventura. From your pictures, that looks like a Bandtail Pigeon. Bandtails are a "native species" and are different from our domestic pigeons that we are used to seeing. You should be able to find a rehabber a little closer to you that would be willing to take him. Go to www.iwrc-online.org then click on "emergency" at the top of the screen, then click on "find a wildlife rehabber", then fill out the info, but leave the "city" blank. That will give you a list of rehabbers in Calif. When you call someone, be sure to tell them that you have a Bandtail. Unfortunately, some rehab facilites won't take non-native domestic pigeons. So you want to make sure they know you have a protected species. From your description, it sounds like the bird has some other problems going on so the sooner you can get him some help, the better. Bandtails are usually very wild and afraid of people, and they have different care requirements than the domestic pigeons. Good luck, and thank you for taking him in! In the meanwhile, warmth and quiet and although he looks pretty young, he may be able to pick up seed on his own.

Beth

[jimothy]

Thanks Beth, Terry also gave me some numbers in the 818 to call so I should be OK. I suspected that it wasn't a domestic pigeon, the adult that was roosting nearby this morning was smaller than a lot of the ones I see in town and had a more colourful plumage.

Jim

[AZWhitefeather]

Thank you so much for helping this little one.

I would suggest placing him on some type of heat source as Kim suggested. IF there is something going on the heat will help to maintain a normal body temperature.

I'm not familiar with 'Band tailed' pigeons, but from his size it would appear he is old enough to be eating seeds on his own. I also noticed in the second picture it appears that his beak is slightly ajar.

If he isn't eating, I would suggest you check the inside of his mouth for any obstruction. His mouth should be nice & pink.
He could possibly have canker which is common among pigeons. This will look like 'yellowish cottage cheese'. It may be in his mouth and/or throat & will hinder his eating ability.

The staggering & apparent 'uncontrolled' head movements could possibly be a neurological issue, e.g., head trauma, PMV.

I hope you are able to get in touch with a rehabber who can assist you.
Please keep us posted.

Cindy ;)

[Pigeonpal2002]

There definitely seems to be something wrong healthwise with that bird. I don't like the way it's head is down in the box and then there is the eye....something there as well. Hopefully this bird will get the help it needs. We don't have band tailed pigeons here in Canada unfortunately. Cindy and everyone here is a link to the band tailed pigeon:

http://www.enature.com/fieldguide/showSpeciesSH.asp?curGroupID=1&shapeID=968&curPageNum=1&recnum=BD0176

[AZWhitefeather]

Thanks for the info Brad. :)

Cindy ;)

[jimothy]

OK, so our new houseguest made it through the night. He looks more alert this morning but his eyes still aren't open at all. I think he ate some of the seed but I can't be sure. He was throwing his head back again this morning so I gave him some of the water and cereal mix with a small syringe. He seemed to take fairly well to that although keeps shaking his head and losing a lot of it after I squirt it in.

I will call round the numbers that Terry gave me this morning and see if I can find a rehabber because at the moment I still feel like I'm not sure what to do.

Jim

[TAWhatley]

Hi Jim,

The youngster does look like a band tail to me also, and it definitely looks like something is amiss health wise. Assuming it is a band tail, it needs to go to a permitted wildlife rehabber which neither Chris nor Samantha are. Here's a link to the permitted rehabbers in California .. look in region 5 and 6 to see if there is someone close enough to help: http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wmd/rehab/forms/facilities.pdf

Good luck with the little one, and please keep us posted.

Terry

[jimothy]

Terry,

Our local humane society seems to be on the list of wildlife rehabbers although I've never seen any wild animals down there. I am going to give them a call this morning and see whether they can look after him. If not I will work out from there.

Jim

[jimothy]

Me again

Unfortunately I'm not going to be able to take the little guy anywhere today. He definitely seems to be eating, or at least trying to eat. He pushes his beak into the water and cereal food and swallows. Then he will periodically throw his head back.

I can feel what I think is his crop and it feels hard and full. Is this a good sign or a bad sign? I have found that I can also open his eyes by gently pulling down the lid and they look clear and complete, not sure what this means if anything.

Jim

[KIPPY]

Did you check inside the Pijs mouth to see if there is anything in there that looks odd? I sometimes find signs of canker in the sick Pijs I have around here.
Are the droppings looking any different?

[John_D]

Don't like the sound of the throwing head back. It could mean there is some discomfort or obstruction, although if it occurs even when he is not trying to eat then (as someone said) it could be a nervous symptom of another problem.

A healthy crop should be full, but just a little squishy, rather than hard.

They do have a third eyelid, so if they are feeling unwell, that may be what you see when he has his eyes closed.

John

[jimothy]

The throwing the head back seems to happen if I open the box and he is exposed to light which I guess suggests that his eyes are at least light sensitive. I will go and have another look at the crop, I need to clean out the box and put fresh food and water in anyway. His neck generally seems to be either completely down or all the way back which is odd. The eyelid that is closed closes from the bottom upwards and appears to be external, don't know if that helps. I looked in his mouth earlier and can't see any obstruction but I'll have another go, I am starting to get more confident handling him now, silly really, I'm quite happy to thrust my hand down the throat of a 70lb dog but was initially quite nervous about handling a pigeon :)

Its a small world John, I was brought up in Worthing before moving to the states 5 years ago.

[KIPPY]

I'm quite happy to thrust my hand down the throat of a 70lb dog but was initially quite nervous about handling a pigeon

LOL! I know what you mean. I totally get nervous handling these guys. I always joke with another member about having a Brandy first before I go and try to catch a sick pigeon. I've seen rehabbers handle pigeons like a football (exageration of course) but the pigeons where fine and knew who was in control. Which made it alot easier to check the pij out.

[AZWhitefeather]

"although if it occurs even when he is not trying to eat then (as someone said) it could be a nervous symptom of another problem."

That was me John. The lack of head control makes me wonder if he isn't experiencing some type of CNS disorder. :confused:

The description of a 'hard' crop doesn't sound good. Possibly crop bound or a severe case of canker?

Jim,
If you are able to observe him 'trying' to eat, could you check carefully to see if he is actually consuming any seeds or just attempting to, to no avail.

I realize we are asking a barrage of questions & you are doing a wonderful job of answering them.

Please keep us posted.

Cindy ;)

[TAWhatley]

Jim, you also want to try to assure that the bird is drinking water. The crop could be hard because he has eaten but hasn't gotten enough fluids. Sounds like you are doing well. Keep us posted.

Terry

[jimothy]

he seems to be mostly eating the cereal that I crushed up in water. he has been trying to eat the seed but I'm not sure how successful he has been. He has not been drinking so much water so i tried dripping some in with a syringe just now when I went to check on him.

He hasn't been pooping so much. I checked his tail and it looked like some leaf matter had got bunged up under there so I have tried to clean that away a little. He has also been getting cereal caked all over his head from dunking his head in the fluidised food. Not sure whether I should try to clean him properly and if so how?

Eyes are still shut at the moment and his head seems to be coming back in response to light. His feeding seems to consist of dunking his head in the food and swallowing for a bit and then throwing his head back and shaking. I have checked his throat and can't see any obvious blockage so I think it is moving, the crop seemed emptier than earlier and his mouth and tongue seem to be pink with no sign of the cottage cheese consistency.

If the weather is good tomorrow (it rained all day today) should I try to get him out in the fresh air and see if he stretches out a bit? Depending on whether there is any improvement I may call round a few of the wildlife rescuers, do they generally all take pigeons?

Thanks so much for all your help

Jim

[KIPPY]

From past experience I would make sure the bottom is clean from blockage and would have him on a heating pad.

should I try to get him out in the fresh air and see if he stretches out a bit?

I know what you mean but no, I would not worry about that. Heating pad and just see that the pij eats and drinks and clean the blockage in the bottom area.

Not a rehabber just my opinion.

[AZWhitefeather]

"His feeding seems to consist of dunking his head in the food and swallowing for a bit and then throwing his head back and shaking"

Hi Jim,
Thanks for the recent update.
Just curious, is he still 'staggering' about?
As a general consensus, given the initial symptoms & the continued 'throwing back & shaking of his head' does anyone else suspect PMV?

I would clean off his face/head with a 'warm watered' wash cloth.

"He hasn't been pooping so much"
What is the consistency/color of his droppings?

"should I try to get him out in the fresh air and see if he stretches out a bit?"
For the time being, I would continue to keep him inside, in a quite, warm area of your home.

I hope you & your pijjie patient have an uneventful & restful night. :)
Let us know how things are going.

Cindy ;)

[Reti]

Cindy,
I suspect PMV in this poor baby. The symproms sound very much like it.

Jim, if you find a rehabber who takes the pigie in, please make sure to ask what the outcome will be. Some rehabers will put him to sleep.
Please, make sure this doesn't happen to this sweet baby.

Reti

[AZWhitefeather]

I woke up a couple times last night thinking about this little one.

What about offering him a calcium supplement? I know there have been other discussions where a pij has been a bit 'wobbly' on his feet & calcium has been suggested.

Just a thought. :)

Cindy ;)

[KIPPY]

If I have a pij in the backyard with canker he will do wierd movements with his neck. I guess because something is blocked in his throat then he tries to shake it out.
Just a thought.

[jimothy]

Unfortunately I have some bad news. I went to check on the little guy this morning, I was going to try bathing him and I had found a bigger box for him. Unfortunately he didn't make it through the night. I feel really bad as I thought he was starting to look a lot calmer but maybe that was just him running out of energy. I suspect it is something I did, maybe I tried to make him eat or drink too much? Maybe I should have tried to get him to a professional quicker?

Anyway, thanks so much for all your help, I learnt a lot these last few days and will feel much more confident should something like this arise again.

By the way, what is PMV, is it some sort of neurological disorder?

Thanks again everyone

Jim

[Victor]

Check out this link :) .Hopefully it will help you with your baby pigeon care.

http://members.aol.com/duiven/medical/feedbaby.htm

[Victor]

Jim, Thank you so much for you life saving efforts.You did all you could do in the time you had, and you at least tried. Here is a link that you can check on regarding your last question.

http://www.epah.net/birds/Paramyxovirus.html

[Reti]

I am so sorry this sweet baby didn't make it.
Don't blame yourself, please. You did everything right. If the baby indeed had PMV (yes, it is a neurological disorder, it is an ifectious disease which affects the nervous system), there was nothing you could have done. Even a professional could not have helped him probably.
So, please don't feel guilty, you did everything you could.

Thank you for taking him in and making his last days confortable.

Reti

[TAWhatley]

Jim,

It wasn't anything you did or didn't do .. assuming this was a young band tail, they are very difficult for even the most experienced rehabbers .. sort of like the U.K. wood pigeons. From the symptoms you described, there was something quite serious going on .. PMV is a possibility as are other things. You would have had no way of knowing, and in the case of PMV, there would have been nothing to do aside from what you already did.

Thank you so much for trying and know that the passing of this bird was not your fault.

Terry

[cats6birds4]

Jim,

Thank you for giving it your best. Bandtails often come in with bad cases of canker/trichomonias and my guess is that is what your bird had. The hard crop, and not being able to eat much, shaking his head, are all symptoms of that common problem with them. Sometimes the disease is so advanced no treatment can help. But rehabbers do have the right medicines on hand and know what to look for, so keep those numbers handy in case you need them again. He had kindness and warmth and was cared for. Thanks again for your kindness.

Beth

[AZWhitefeather]

I'm very sorry for the loss of your little patient Jim.

Cindy ;)

[jimothy]

Thanks again for everyone's help with the little guy. I have been outside this morning trying to see where the nest might be as it must be relatively nearby. Although its sad that he didn't recover, at least now I will be much more confident if something like this happens again and I will know where to come to ask for help.

Jim