aspiration pneumonia

[Reti]

A new found pigeon with a bad case of canker seems to have now pneumonia.
I have had this pigeon-Sally-since Saturday night. She has a really bad canker and I wasn't able to get even the tiniest tube down her throat.
She has been treated with Metronidazol and Spartrix and the canker did come down, now I am able to insert a tube into the crop.

I think though yesterday while trying to hydrate her she must have aspirated some fluids.
Now, she has labored breathing with some fluids coming out of her beak and I can hear rales.


I gave her a Baytril earlier, she is on heat and I give her fluids when I see she is not urinating.


She is lethargic and I don't know what else to do to help her.
I appreciate any advice.

Reti

[TAWhatley]

Hi Reti,

I'm so sorry that Sally now seems to have pneumonia. Perhaps letting her spend 10-15 minutes every hour or so in a steamy bathroom would help ease her breathing. Or, if you have a steamer or nebulizer, I'd give that a try but not put any of the human type treatments in the water .. just the steam from plain water. I honestly don't know if this would help but seem to remember reading something about it not too long ago.

Terry

[SmithFamilyLoft]

Dear Reti,

About all I can offer, is I feel for you. I am really fearful of attempting to put and types of tubes or droppers into a pigeons mouth. Truth be told, I have never attempted it. The storys I had heard, right or wrong, is it is very easy to drown a pigeon this way.

Are the deposits in the throat yellow or white ? Is the bird eating at all now ?

[Reti]

Thank you Terry and Warren.

I actually do have a thing that makes steam, it is supposed to be for facials, lol, I never used it, now it will be good for something. I will set it up right away.

She is not eating on her own, or drinking.
Now that I think of it, she had some respiratory difficulty when I got her, but yesterday she seemed ok with breathing.
She has a lot of slimy, yellowish stuff in her mouth. I am trying to clean it with a q-tib. Also she has lot of bits of canker, I think it is, which are coming out and she spits all over.

Thank you both.

Reti

[Pigeonpal2002]

Hi Reti,


I'm sorry I don't have any suggestions either. This bird sounds like she's had better days. I think you are doing all you can for her though and hopefully she will come around once the canker subsides a bit. It seems like I've read somewhere that you can put a dab of vicks vaporub on the beak (not cere) near the nostrils to help with breathing, but I'm not sure so I'm reluctant to suggest it.

Keep us updated,

[KIPPY]

Warren,
What does white or yellow mean? Is canker yellow and white cocci? I don't know this and it sure would help.

[SmithFamilyLoft]

Hello Kippy,

I am on a learning curve here myself. I have been blessed with good health in my pigeons, so most illnesses which pigeons can get, I have never seen. I was reading up on various ailments for this site, and I discovered that Thrush or Soup Crop will cause bacteria to grow out of control in the throat. If it is white, then it is Thrush, or one of a couple ailments which result in white dots in the throat. The yellow indicates canker.

Most of these organisms are already present in our pigeons. The immune system in a healthy pigeon keeps these bacteria in check. Somewhere along the way, the system breaks down, and the organisms begin to take over.

The pigeon is an amazing creature. When it is healthy, it's immune system will attack and destroy invading organisms all on it's own. Things begin to go haywire, when the system is not working properly, and then the bird becomes sick. Once it is sick, then other organisms can get a foot hold. It is then all down hill from there. :(

[Reti]

She made through the night.
The steam does help her indeed. What happens though is, when she is under the steam her secretions, what ever they are and where ever they come from, do get really runny. She spits a lot and it is kind of smelly and yellowish and very slimy.
I have no idea if this is dissolved canker, her mouth is pretty clear now, except for the slime. I don't see any canker.
The lump in her neck is going down.

I have no idea if this is just canker or if there is also something else going on here. I am not even sure she has pneumonia, or if it is all the secretions which clog up her mouth that make her breathing difficult.

She is on Metronidazol, Spartrix, Baytril. I do supplement her feedings with vitamins, calcium, echinaceea.
She is not feeding, I have to tube feed her, which is very difficult, she is struggling a great deal and absolutely refuses to open her beak.
Very stressful for both of us.

Reti

[Pigeonpal2002]

Hi Reti,

I'm glad to hear this very ill pigeon made it through the night. When you mentioned more details about the bird; slimy discharges, rattling while breathing and sour smelling mouth, mycoplasmosis came to mind. Here is some info about it. Perhaps you can see if it fits this situation fully or not:


Mycoplasmosis

Mycoplasmosis is caused by tiny microscopic organisms transmitted from pigeon to pigeon through droppings in water and food. One to two weeks after the initial infection, you may note a watery nasal discharge, which later develops into a slimy pus-containing discharge. A grayish deposit appears in the beak and the saliva is tough and hangs wire-like between tongue and palate. There is swelling in the infected beak and throat cavity; an unhealthy smell is apparent. The nostrils become grey. If you press the nostrils, a thick discharge emerges. As the air passages become congested, breathing becomes laboured; the patient sits with open beak and makes wheezing noises, especially in the evenings and at night. The air sacs can also be infected.
In mycoplasmosis there is usually not an infection of the eyelid. Fatalities rarely occur, although the disease usually has a long duration. The disease appears to lower the bird’s resistant to other disease and chronic infection can markedly affect performance due to respiratory problems. Internally the air sacs can be seen to be affected and secondary bacterial infections can occur at this site

Treatment

Serious cases require antibiotic treatment. Enrox-2 tsp in 1 lt of water or 0.1ml injection I/M or Sulpha drugs-1/ 2 tablet in 1 lt water for 3-4 days. All healthy pigeons of the same loft should be treated with Althrocyn or similar medicine. Althrocyn, which is usually available in the powdered form, should be given 4 gm in 1 lt water for 5-7 days. Thoroughly clean and disinfect the whole coot, preferably on a weekly schedule.
Suitable antibiotic medication with Enrofloxacin, Tetracyclines, Tylosin or Tylamulin is effective against uncomplicated cases of Mycoplasmosis.
Mycoplasma infection is endemic in the pigeon population and the majority of pigeons will be affected by the organism. Stress conditions favour the development of the clinical disease in birds. The principle clinical finding is one of catarrh and initially there is a clear nasal discharge which in time becomes thicker due to the presence of pus.

[SmithFamilyLoft]

Hello Reti,

From a completely amateur point of view. I would consider not tube feeding her. The body needs some energy to digest food, which is why the old wives tale of "feed a cold, starve a fever" or something like that.

If you remove the feeding tube, the body will begin to attack the various organisms in the body for food. One of the methods I employ, is a fast. The body in your case, is already cutting off food, by eliminating hunger. So is it possible by force feeding this bird, you are working againest the immune system ? I am just providing "food" for thought.

Is the bird drinking on it's own ? I wish you the best.

[Reti]

This is great info you posted about mycoplasmosis.
This is something I did not think about and the symtoms fit exactly what Sally has. Even the evening/night laboured breathing, and the slime and the gray ceres.
I have the bird only since Saturday night, so I don't know how it all started, but right now, I think it is a great possibility we have that.
I will start her right away on Tetracycline and I should get some Sulfa drug by tomorrow.

Thank you

Reti

[Reti]

You have a good point here, Warren.

The bird is not drinking at all and not feeding.
This is an emaciated bird, and the reason she could not eat is because she had this big lesion obstructing her throat. She was trying to eat for days, but could not, I was told by the person who handed me the bird over.

I would agree with you, if I knew the bird had eaten recently and it wasn't just 170gr. Right now, though, I feel I just can't let her starve.
For 24 hours after I got her, I only gave her fluids with vitamins, I started the feedings on Sunday evening.

You might be right and I might be wrong, so I appreciate any input on this.

Reti

[SmithFamilyLoft]

Dear Reti,

You are the care taker, and the bird is in front of you, so you will know best. I offer this only as an alternative. Please do not take anything I say as gospel.

As many of the readers may have noticed, I practice a form of medicine, that is radically different from the norm. Not on myself, but on my pigeons. :rolleyes:

Consider placing your faith in Mother Nature, but give her some help. If she is drinking water on her own. I would consider stopping the forced feeding. I would continue to give her the antibotics as you have.

I would consider giving her a variety of items in her water. And I would change her water three times a day. Braggs ACV for 8 hours, SAMBUCOL Black Elderberry Extract for 8 hours, and a vitamin mixture for 8 hours.

This poor bird is under attack from within, if it was my bird (It's Not), I would risk it not eating for 48-72 hours. And hope nature, and it's remarkable immune system, knows what it is doing by reducing appetite.

I suggest this, in the sincere hope, that our best allies in this war going on in side your bird, is it's own natural immune system.

[Reti]

Thank you Warren.

I don't think she is drinking or going anywhere near her water.
She doesn't move at all from her heating pad.
I will do as you said with the water though.

You gave me something to think about the feeding though.

Reti

[SmithFamilyLoft]

Dear Reti,

I did not realize there was no water being consumed. This is bad.

In "normal" situations, this would be fatal. If you are successful, you will have brought this bird back, from the very edge.

I will now sit back, bite my fingernails, and hope and pray for the best.

[AZWhitefeather]

Just a suggestion Reti.
Can you obtain a bag of lactated ringers & sub-Q the fluids.
This is not a procedure I would normally suggest, but given your background, I thought I would run it by you.

Cindy ;)

[Reti]

Cindy,
I don't have lactaded Ringer's. If I had and someone would explain it to me how to sub-q it, I certainly could.

She almost died earlier.
She was wheezing as loud as a person with an asthma attack. I put the steam on, but didn't seem to help. So, thinking that that was it, I wrapped her in a towel and took her out on the balcony, to see the sky one last time.
After about 10 min, the wheezing stopped, and she is breathing normal again.

I don't know what made her come back, me crying like mad or the cool breeze. I honestly had no doubt she was gone.

Now she is in the living room, under my turtles heat lamp. Hubby will have a fit, he is afraid the turtle will get something from Sally. But she seems more comfortable in here, the air is certainly better than in the laundry room. And she can watch me typing.

I am wiped out.

Reti

[AZWhitefeather]

Cindy,
I don't have lactaded Ringer's. If I had and someone would explain it to me how to sub-q it, I certainly could.

Reti

Perhaps your vet could 'donate' the lactated ringers (even a partially used bag) & teach you how to inject the fluids under the skin.

Cindy ;)

[Reti]

Thanks, Cindy,
I called the office and he is out today (his day off).
I emailed him, so he'll get it in the morning.

Sally is better now, had one small episode about 2pm and none since then.

I talked to Treesa and she is pretty sure from the symptoms she has it's mycoplasmosis or ornithosis. She'll be sending me Auromycin and Tylan (sp?)

Right now she is on Metro, Baytril and Tetracyclin.

His secretions are down, his breathing is ok.
The canker is receding.

Lets hope for the best.

Reti