Parents aren't feeding one-day old babies!

[Stacey]

I have two pigeons in my care that have successfully had babies before and raised them, but one hatched yesterday, the other one over night (kind of close together, huh?) And the mom's not tending to them and the dad's been upset all along because she chose another nest site this time, so he's not really been involved and still won't do anything. I had to take them away today and go it alone with them, if they were going to have any chance it looked like.

My questions are:
How often do they need to eat and how much at this stage?
Don't they eat the crop milk replacement over night as well, not just during the day?
They haven't seemed to have pooped yet, but then I've only gotten them to eat a small amount. Do I have to stimulate them to poop somehow? How often should I be trying to feed them. They are both having a little bit of a feeding response. I've got them in a warming basket.

Thanks, any quick assistance would be appreciated,
Stacey

[Birdmom4ever]

Hi Stacey, and welcome to Pigeons.com. If you haven't already done so, from the Home page of this site click on "Basic Care," for information on feeding baby pigeons. For more detailed information, here is a thread from last fall started by a woman who successfully fed two pigeon chicks from start to adulthood. It's long, but there's a lot of good information in it. http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=8070

We have other members who have successfully done this, but it's challenging and to be honest, I'm not one of them. Hopefully someone will come along soon who has more experience than I do with feeding such young chicks.

Basically you need to keep the chicks warm (a towel-covered heating pad set on low) and feed them approximately every 2 hours at this stage (during your waking hours, say early AM to just after dark). The formula should be very, very thin. You should be able to buy Kaytee Exact baby bird formula from a pet store. You can feed them with an eyedropper to start with, or if your pet store sells feeding syringes, use those. You may want to try the "balloon method" detailed in the above post, as it allows the chicks to eat a little more naturally.

In what part of the country are you located? Do you by any chance know anyone with pigeons who might be able to foster your little ones?

[Stacey]

I've actually been on Pigeons.com for a year or so, but had to re-register now because after I changed my email address some months ago, it never let me do anything, so I just started over.

Anyway, I've got other pigeons in the house, one of which has fostered, but those babies were 2 weeks old at the time he fed them. I'm assuming the crop milk they need for the first week can't be produced by any pigeon on demand?

And I'm using a crop milk replacement diet (chicken baby food base with specific amounts of other good stuff added).

I was pretty sure I remember reading that they need to be fed over night for the first week while they're on the crop milk, I know they don't later, but?

It's 3 pm and I'm actually surprised they're still alive, frankly. I didn't expect the one to live through the night, after I found him beside the mom and cold, though not the coldest baby pigeon I'd ever seen survive by a long shot!

I also think they hatched a few days earlier than I expected, 17 and 18 days, and nowhere near 48 hours a part!

Stacey

[Birdmom4ever]

The diet sounds good. I also seem to recall someone saying they should be fed once overnight while the chicks are still tiny, but I can't remember who said it. For the first night I guess you could check and see if their crops are empty and give them a midnight feeding if they are. The key to knowing how often to feed is when the crop is nearly empty.

You're right about fostering--the parents would need to be at the right stage. The reason I asked where you were is that we always have multiple pairs sitting on wooden eggs and I frequently foster chicks for a friend and for my own pigeons when needed. I note all egg-laying dates on the calendar so I know how many days each pair has been sitting.

Actually, pigeon chicks should hatch on the same day. If you watch closely, most pairs don't "sit tight" until the second egg is laid. That way incubation begins at the same time and the chicks hatch on the same day. But inexperienced pairs sometimes begin incubation with the first egg. When they are two full days apart it can be hard for the smaller chick to get enough to eat.

[Stacey]

Hum? I guess mine are all inexperienced. They always hatch 24 - 48 hours apart, it seems. I read that they usually were laid that far apart and hatched that far apart, so I've expected them to and they always have, until this one. What about the number of days they should incubate? These were 17 and 18 days, which I thought was early, again, compared to my usual times of 20 or so days.

I do have a single male that I raised from about 3 days old last summer that's bonded to me and has fostered 2-week old squabs before, so once these guys are about a week old and should be eating the regurgitated seed, I'm going to see if Madison can take over.

I just fed the little ones at 4:30 and they ate more eagerly and someone had pooped in there, which was the first poop I'd found so far. I'm using a piece of plastic with a tiny beak-size hole in it stretched over a communion cup of warm formula. I put a little slack in the plastic, to where the hole lets out a little liquid and then introduce the baby's beak. He sticks it in there and because he feels the enclosure around his beak it stimulates him to suck. This is less messy than the baggie method I use when they're older and their formula is thicker. So far, though, their crops are emptying pretty well in a 2 to 2 1/2 hour period, and they seem hungry when I go to feed them.

Any ideas why the mom would choose not to care for them, after being a good mom in the past?

Stacey

[Birdmom4ever]

It sounds as though you're doing a great job! I've heard of other tame cocks that would feed babies--two, in fact. Hopefully your little friend can take over once the babies are ready for grain rather than milk.

As to the hen's behavior, is it possible something is wrong with her? As you know, most pigeons are excellent parents and especially since these aren't her first chicks it's very strange that she would decline to care for them. Has anything changed recently in your loft? New birds added, nest spot moved? Have you checked them recently for lice and mites? Some types of insect pests harass pigeons so badly at night that they don't want to sit on the nest. Have you checked her for canker?

[Stacey]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I know what the problem was. Her and her mate are in a half of a room by themselves and I left a basket on the floor that I was using to transport the baby in the other half of the room and Lena liked that so she laid an egg in it and claimed it as her nest, but Percy, her mate, never took to that nest, he preferred their old nest. He made a couple of attemtps to adapt to it, right about when I was going to move the eggs to the other nest a few weeks ago, so I let him see if he could adapt. I should have forced the issue more and gone ahead and moved them a few weeks ago, Lena is used to that nest and would have adapted to it just fine, then Percy would have sat on the nest and done his share. I think by the time the eggs hatched, Lena was exhausted and not looking forward to raising them "on her own" since Percy wasn't participating this time. Percy's a little handicapped also, so he can't fly and still does clumsy things alot, left over from his boubt with a virus last year.

Anyway, one baby died yesterday, day 3, the other one seems to be doing okay. The one started showing bad signs sometime yesterday morning and was getting weaker and didn't seem to be progressing the way the other one is, slowly but surely, progressing.

I think I'm going to switch out Lena and Percy's eggs to wooden ones for the next few times, until they get back settled again on their old nest. I don't want to be doing this every time!

Stacey

[Reti]

I am sorry the one didn't make. It is possible they are premature.
Good luck with the other one.
It is a good idea to switch their eggs until the parents are back to "normal".

Reti

[Stacey]

Can eggs really hatch prematurely? I would think if the baby's able to get out of the shell, it's ready, doesn't seem so much like a mammal birthing process really.

Anyway, I also figured out today that the formula needs to be thicker! He's only 4 days old, the size of a 2-day-old, but he wasn't going after the formula at all. I made it thicker so I could use another method and it wouldn't run out the hole, and he went after it like he'd not been fed since he hatched!!!

I've watched the parents feeding young chicks and their formula must not be very watery at all, or it would just run out of their mouth and down the baby's chin because the baby's beak is inside the parent's and the parent's is pointed straight down. A drop of mineral oil or Milk of Magnesia in the formula can help if the crop gets too slow.

Anyway, I'm excited that the little guy ate so well tonight. I think we're on our way now.

Thanks
Stacey