i found a fledgeling please help

[lotty69]

hi please can anybody help me, yesterday i found a baby pigeon just sitting in the middle of a busy road,cars were swerving round the poor thing,so i turned the car around and went and picked it up.it did not attempt to move away from me either.I wrapped it up in a towel and kept it close so it could feel my body warmth. i have tried to give it some water with a dropper but it is not eating or making any noise. it is preening itself and seems quite content in its cardboard box or on my finger . has anyone got any advice on what i can try to feed it thanks lisa

[Reti]

Hi Lisa,

thank you so much for rescuing this little one.
That he is preening is a good sign that he is not too sick.
Do you have any idea how old the baby might be? is he fully feathered? Does he have any hairs sticking out in between his feathers.
If you think he is young, you can check out the pics of baby Sara on this forum's home page, that should give you an idea of his age.
If you can post a pic of him, that would be great

He needs to drink water and eat.
You can put a deep dish with water in front of him and gently dip his beak into the bowl- keep the nostrils out of the water. If he is old enough to drink by himself he will. Otherwise, you HAVE to give him water with a dropper.
Depending on his age, we will advise you further on what to feed him, seeds or formula which you can get from the pet store.

Did you check him out for any injuries? Also look in his mouth by gently opening his beak. It should be pink and clear of any secretions or growths.
Please keep us updated on this little guy.

Reti

[cyro51]

Hi Lisa,

If you click on "Pigeon Talk", then on "Pigeon Daily" then on "Resources" you will find a post that leads to a link showing the day to day development of a feral pigeon.

There is also another that shows the development of a collared dove and a post on feeding techniques.

If you can give us an idea of what sort of pigeon you have and how old it is we can give better advice on what and how to feed it.

If you let us know where you are we might be able to point you in the direction of someone who can give practical help.

Cynthia (UK)

[JGregg]

Thank you for taking the time to rescue the poor little pigeon!

Where are you located?

[lotty69]

hi reti
by the look of the pics its about 23 days old, it has a few hairs still sticking out from the feathers, i have tried dipping its beak into the water but it just turns its head away. it is spreading its wings and flapping them about when i lift it out of its box. at the mo im unable to show you a pic as camera is broken..

[lotty69]

hi cynthia,
thanks for the info on how to get to the pics it was really helpful, its about 23 days old, but im concerned that i cant get it to eat anything. i live in bournemouth

[lotty69]

i live in bournemouth uk

[Reti]

You will need some formula from the pet store to feed this little one.
If you cannot get it now, there is another alternative to give him baby cereal. You feed him with a dropper or syringe. Another great method is the boloon method. You find this on
http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t8531

I hope I got it right.
If you feed baby cereal you won't need to give the baby water.
With this method he eats as much as he needs and you don't have to worry about over- or under feeding.

Please keep him warm, on a heating pad on low.
If you have no heating pad you can use a bottle filled with warm/hot water wrapped in a towel.
Make sure he doesn't get over heated.

You can find more information on this topic on a recently thread in the emergency section of this forum under "seven tragically orphaned pigeons"

Good luck

Reti

He should be ready to eat and drink within a week maybe a little more.
For now, please make sure he gets some food in him.

[pdpbison]

Hi Lotty69,

No harm if you should be so kind as to ensure the little one is able to be warm. A heating-pad with a single layer of Towell on it, set to low or medium and aranged so he may be off of it or on it in some larger box on it's side say, with one end open, will possibly be a comfort to him. Likely he will stay put nicely enough so long as he takes the arrange to be like a Nest of sorts.

Young Pigeons normally eat by inserting their Beak into the throats of their parents, who obliingly open their Beaks for their young to to do so.

It falls to us then, in some manner or other, to either administer food directly into the Crop of the youngster ( via some Syringe or Catheret or thin barrelled 'dropper'), or, more safely for the neophyte ( or, for the Pigeon actually, oweing to dangers of getting food or liquid into their airways instead of their Crops) is to employ some method where they may insert their little Beak 'into' something for being fed. This is the safest and it is quite easy in fact to do.

Some young Pigeons, with a little gentle coaxing, will readily eat from something like a small Shot-Glass or other short narrow diameter container.

Food for them should be wrist temperature or a little less, or tepid anyway, so it does not discourage or chill them to eat it.

For now, you may take some simple ingredients at hand and make a meal for him if you like...such as...

In a little water in a small pan, warm the water and dissolve some Graham Cracker in it, and you may add also some small kind of Birdseed if you have any handy, and or you could add some Rolled-Oats or other sort of what one calls 'Hot Cereal' and for now, and warm ythe whole of it, (you do not need to make very much, just half a Tea Cup full or so for this round, so) that will be a welcome meal. Make it to the consistancy of a thick 'Soup' and elect some small stubby Whiskey glass or other little container, maybe an empty plastic 35 mm Film cannister even, and put some of the food in there, enough for him to get his Beak into it anyway, as deep as his Beak is long, say...

Gently guide his Beak into this, and if possible, do so with two of your fingers' sides kind of holding his Beak on each side, as you guide it in, this way he may 'feel' a familiar tactile sensation on his tender Beak, which will remind him of how his parents fed him. He may take to this readily, or it may take a few gentle trys for him to understand you wish to feed him in what for him, is a new manner from what he was used to.

More later...and likely from several others here too!


Thank you for grabbing the little Pigeon and saving him..!

Your description is of some very positive indicators, as for his preening and energy generally...this is very good to hear.


When feeding, or when being fed, or when asking to be fed, young Pigeons will usually become quite enthused, and flap their Wings, while pumping their shoulders up and down, and squeaking a good deal, or even running in little circles or figure 8s or the likes. He may also enthusiastically try seeking something 'like' his parent's Beak, with his Beak...this will likely happen with his Beak searching your fingers or the webs of them on your hands.

Also, once you have some tepid food in ready, you may gently massage the sides of his Beak, and this may inspire him to decide you might just be a possibility for feeding him!

Let us know how it is going...

Best wishes,

Phil

[cyro51]

Hi Lisa,

If you can't get it to eat om its own you will have to hand feed it.

Can you get to a pet shop? There you will find "eggfood" which you can make into a formula and feed by the syringe and balloon , baggie of bent spoon methods described in the Resources forum.

Any of these should work for a 23 day old pigeon but if they don't then you can also make egg food into a paste which can be rollod into little balls, dip each ball into water, prise the pigeon's beak open and gently push the ball of food to the back of the throat. The pigeon will swallow it automatically.

Alternatively try a cereal based dog food or soaked dog biscuit, feeding as described.

Cynthia

[lotty69]

hi everyone, well i visited several pet shops today and i couldnt believe that not 1 knew anything about any formula. so i gave up in the end and brought some baby cereal, after several unsucessful attempts this evening i managed to get 3.5mls syringed into this little birdie. hopefully my little feathered friend will become accustiomed to this method of feeding until it has mastered the art of self feeding..
i forgot to ask has anyone any ideas on how to sex my little friend as my children would love to give it a name but they want to know if its a boy or a girl .. lisa

[Reti]

At this age, it is impossible to tell the sex of the bird. When he becomes mature you might get some clues from his behavior.

3-5ml is not enough unless you do it every two hours.
You should be feeding him three times a day about 20-30 cc's each time. Also make sure the consistency of the cereal is thick enough.

You can supplement his feedings with some puppy chow, or any dog food soaked in water until they are soft.
Also you can start feeding him peas, corn, lentils either dry ones, or frozen and thawed, or from a can, One peace at a time, that will give him also the taste of the seeds and soon enough he might be starting eating by himself.
Offer him a dish of seeds and water, so he can learn to start pecking on it.
Usually they learn first to drink and then they start pecking at the seeds.

Please feed him a little more.

Reti

[lotty69]

hi reti,
well today my little friend took 3 feeds of 25cc which im so pleased about, although the poor thing got quite messy with the cereal, so i gave it a tepid water bath and then gently dried it with my hairdryer with my hand in between the heat and the pij. it also attempted to flyfrom my finger but only managed to plop down in front of me. is this a good sign.i also took your advice and put some seed and water in its box, it seemed to have fun today as when i returned home from shopping all of the seeds were all over the floor of its box and in its water lol. bless.
lisa

[Reti]

Hi Lisa,

that is wonderful, that he ate three good meals today.
That he is playing with his food is a very good sign that he will start eating by himself very soon.
When you are sure he is eating don't stop the feedings at once. At first you reduce the feedings to twice a day for 2-3 days, then you do down to once a day 30 cc's and you watch him if indeed he eats his seeds.

You have done a great job with this little one.

Reti

[lotty69]

hi reti
today i managed to get him to feed very well but today my little dove friend has got very waterey brown stools well more like water really, i hope this isnt a bad sign as its been doing really well. it still doesnt make any sounds by it is still preening itself and flapping its wings. do i carry on with the baby cereal or should i stop this and try something else.. i dont want to see this poor little baby poorly.
lisa

[Reti]

Hi Lotti.
Make sure the baby cereal is thick in consistency. You can supplement his feeding with some puppy chow, cause he will need also something else than just cereal. Also try to start feeding him some peas, corn, lentils. If he doesn't eat them by himself you can give them to him one by one. If you can make one meal out of this and the cereal twice a day only.
Did you notice if he eats seeds by himself?

Also he might have sarted drinking a lot of water, that could make his droppings watery.
At some point you might consider taking him to the vet to have his droppings checked for bacteria and parasites, I don't want to say he has something, but it is not impossible to have picked up something from his parents.

Another thing, if you can pick up from the pet store some vitamins for birds, if they have added calcium it will help him. Little ones need all this to grow.

If he acting normal otherwise, don't worry too much about the droppings for now, just try to give him more solid food and see what happens.

Reti

[lotty69]

hi reti,
well the kids have called it lucky, lucky is eating very well now i have tried to introduce peas etc but it just doesnt seem interested in them or its water, i make sure that fresh water and seed is available at least once a day although sometimes i have to change it at least 2 times in one day as lucky things its fun to put seeds or its poop into both lol bless . it has discovered its wings now as it can almost make the whole length of my lounge now . i cant believe ive had this little chap here for a week now lucky has grown so much in that short time,lucky is starting to develop a dark ring around its neck. with the lentils do i need to soak them and if so for how long. lisa

[Reti]

Hi LIsa,
thank you for the great update.
No, you don't need to soak the lentils or peas or corn.
If they are dried, they are fine.
He probably is still too young to eat. You have to teach him by playing with your fingers with the food while he is watching. Besides if he has a full crop he won't be interested unless he gets hungry.
In his fourth week, he should start eating by himself. I don't know if I mentioned it, but once he starts eating, do not stop the feeding right away, but rather reduce the frecvency. You can start by skipping lunch. After he eats well you can start skipping breakfast and after a couple of days dinner.

Now, some pigeons like to be fed and as long as you are doing it they wont eat by themselves.
My Angel was fed by me until she was three months old LOL. If you want him to eat by himself he has to go hungry a bit.
So, try in the next few days to feed him less lunch and eventually skipping it al together and see how he does.

BTW, how are his droppings?

You are doing a great job with him, congratulations.

Reti

[cyro51]

Hi Lotti,

You referred to Lucky as your dove, and mentioned the ring around her neck....Is she a collared dove, then?

I just wondered because collared doves react differently to feral pigeons when you feed them and when you dip their beaks in water. They won't drink for you like pigeons do, just pull away. They mature quicker that pigeons so will self feed earlier and are much smaller so they take less food. They also eat the smaller wild bird seed rather than peas and lentils. Mine love safflower and sunflower seed hearts.

Collared doves should not have wet droppings..they have much nicer droppings than pigeons, more compact and and quite firm (but not hard).


Cynthia

[lotty69]

hi reti,
well lucky has found his/her wings today as it flew all the way up to the ceiling fan and then onto the curtain rail in fact lucky really didnt want to come back down lol. well lucky has tried pecking at a bit of food on its own today but still not interested in the water. the dropping vary most of the time they are quite solidish but sometimes they are very watery. lucky really wants to fly bless and 1 day in the future i hope to return lucky to the enviroment from which it came from.
lisa

[lotty69]

hi cynthia
to be honest i really dont know much about pig or doves, lucky is light grey in colour and just has the start of a dark ring around the neck although it seems to be only at the sides of the neck. like i was saying to reti sometimes the droppings are hardish and sometimes they are very watery. lucky has no interest in the water whatsoever it just turns its head away. lucky seems to have progressed quickly in the flying stage as a couple of days ago lucky would just flop down just in front of me, and now lucky is reaching great heights and really does not like coming down again. you mentioned sunflower hearts are they easy to come accross as the pet shops near me do not seem to be very pig or dove friendly.
lisa

[JGregg]

Sounds like you may have a Stock Dove! Or maybe a ringneck?

[lotty69]

how can i tell the difference, ive tried looking up doves in the libary but to no avail,
lisa

[cyro51]

Hi Lisa,

I have suspected from the beginning that she might be a Collared Dove because you found her in the middle of the road and the only squab I ever found in that situation was a collared dove.

We don't have ring necked doves in the UK and the stock dove has a distinctive green neck. The wood pigeon has a white neck ring.

In the photo below the pigeon on the left is a feral pigeon, the two on the right are collared doves.

You can find shelled sunflower seeds or sunflower hearts in Sainsbury, but any wild bird mix will be fine and will probably make those poops better.

Colared doves are half the size of a pigeon and eat half as much.

A good site for bird identification is the RSPB site http://www.rspb.org.uk/birds/guide/c/collareddove/index.asp

Cynthia

[lotty69]

hi cynthia,
thanks for the pic's i would say lucky is very similar to the 1 on the far right.
the poos seem to have improved and lucky is really keen to fly. lucky has taken a definate fancy to my ceiling fan she would stay up their all day if she could, thanks ill go into sainsburys tomorrow and look out for the sunflower hearts. in your opinion do you think that i will be able to return lucky to the wild and if so when is the best age/time to do it. she is also taking more interest in the food that is in her cage, as well as a bowl of seed i also scatter some on the floor of the cage, which she has been pecking and also eating a couple of bits.she has become increasingly nosey as well taking in all of her surroundings especially when she is on her favorite perch my fan lol. once again the pics were really helpful thanks
lisa

[Reti]

The right time to release a dove or pigeon or any other bird is when they can eat by themselves and fly very well. Spring/summer is also better then winter when there is less food.
It is good to release the bird in a flock or where a flock hangs out.
Also s/he should not be tame and human friendly, that would not be good.

Reti

[cyro51]

Hi Lisa,

The dove on the far right of the photo was the youngest one. The one in the centre was mature.

Check this link for photos of a collared dove growing up (see Collared Dove Development album).

[http://community.webshots.com/user/cyro51

Collared doves don't flock, they are usually alone or in pairs but they will congregate together at feeding places which are good for releasing. You could start attracting the collared doves to your garden in preparation for release.

However, it might be best if you handed her over to a rehabber to ensure that she can fend for herself. If she is too tame then she will need a permanent home. I have had to keep Poppet because she was handraised as and far too tame now to release. She thinks human heads are perches.

I have released others that I found at a young age into my garden, but it is difficult to establish how they fared as all collared doves look similar and they call in to the garden at different times so I would have to be watching at exactly the right time and be close enough to notice any distinctive features.

As a species I think they are survivors...in the UK they have developed form extremely rare into one of the most common garden birds within 50 years.

Cynthia

[lotty69]

hi cynthia,
thanks for the link, it was very helpful lucky is definaately a collered dove, unfortunately i live in a first floor flat surrounded by other blocks of flats so a garden is un practical as others are not so pij ./ dove friendly. where can i find a good rehabber in the bournemouth area. as i do want lucky to be released back into her territory as its not fair on her being kept indoors. the kids and i will be sad to see her go but know that its for the best. once again as im writing this lucky is perched on her favorite thing the ceiling fan quite happily preening herself and having a snooze, such a hard life lol. i loved the pic's of all your birds and your beautiful dogs. once again many thanks
lisa

[cyro51]

i loved the pic's of all your birds and your beautiful dogs. once again many thanks

LOL, not quite all my birds. I think I have over 40 now!

I think Sally's Kelly went to a lady in Hayling Island. I will try to find someone in the Bournemouth area.

Cynthia

[lotty69]

hi cynthia,
many thanks for trying to find someone in the bournemouth area for me,
lucky has been quite happily pecking at seeds on the cage floor and even drank some water. she looks quite misserable when i put her back in the cage bless.
lisa

[cyro51]

Hi Lisa,

Would any of these be possibilities?

You will have to telephone or e-mail to get more details of exactly where the last two are and the kind of birds they rescue and rehabilitate.

MARGARET GREEN FOUNDATION TRUST HQ /CHURCH KNOWLE SANCTUARY
Mrs Green/Jackie Fraser, Church Knowle , WAREHAM , Dorset , BH20 5NQ
Ph: 01929 480474 .
Birds, mammals (including oiled seabirds, fox cubs and fawns.

(DORSET, EAST) Love Birds Wildlife Rescue ~ Tel: 01202 872592, Email: pascal3@btconnect.co

(DORSET / SOMERSET) Rockey's Rescue, Tel: 01747 858365, Email: lisalucas4@aol.com

Cynthia

[lotty69]

hi cynthia,
many thanks for those names i know of margeret green foundation, but i will e-mail the other 2 first to see where abouts they are,and what sort of birds they rehab. will keep you posted. once again many thanks for all your help.
lisa

[ronnie jo]

hi everyone, i stumbled across this wonderful web page after aquiring a baby dove. my story is the same as this one. infact i felt like i had written the whole lot. i have only recently got my small baby to look after (yesterday infact) thanks to the feed back in these letters i most probably wont need any extra advice. my biggest concern was at first trying to feed her. i managed to get 5 ml of special hand rearing food for birds into her.followed by a bit of water. my next concern was " oh i hope i havnt fed her too much. my cats love her so i have to keep her in a room with the door shut. luckily i had a nice box with wire lid on top that i had made as a make shift pet carrier . so she has a home for now.luckily it is not too cold over here in perth at the moment. i give her heat at bed time. i was very pleased when i got up this morning and she was alive. i, too, have kids. 5 infact.they all find her to be the sweetest thing. i will check out all the links that people have given you to help identify my little cutie.

[lotty69]

hi ronnie jo,
well like you i stumbled accross this wonderful web site so i thought to myself well i'll give it a go, well im so glad i did i have recieved some wonderful advice from the people on here. sadly where im living in the uk people are not very pij / dove friendly and most of them say they are vermin, but i dont aggree, everything that breathes deserves a chance to live their life to the full.
it is the most wonderful feeling to know that this little bundle of feathers is going to get bigger and live its life . like you my cats took an instant love to my lucky so they have been shut out of the living room too. its truly amazing when all of a sudden they go from just flopping down in front of you to little flights, its amazing how quick they manage it. the sad thing is that very soon i know that the best thing for my lucky is to go to a rehabber and then be released back into the wild, but im am so glad that i was given to oppotunity to nurse this beauty and to see her grow.
dont worry if your little baby gets too mucky when you feed it, you can give it a tepid water bath in a bowl, they look quite sweet when they are wet, i just gently patted lucky semi dry with a clean towel, before i got my hairdryer on warm and thoughly dryed lucky. i also put my hand in between the heat and lucky so she didnt get windswept ha ha. good luck with your little one and please keep me posted on how you are both getting on
lisa.

[ronnie jo]

Hi Lisa thanks for your reply. I have yet to find out if my baby is a Pigeon or a Dove. I am a bit computer illiterate so I am not sure how to go about getting her photo on this forum. I do have a digital camera and know how to save a photo . What next Please can you step me through it . It may be quicker than trying to work it out.Thanxs heaps
Ronnie Jo

[ronnie jo]

I managed to work out the photo. it is in another letter from me . See if you can find it. It;s a new message "pigeon or Dove"

[cyro51]

Hi Ronni Jo,

Where are you? That will help us narrow down the types of pigeons/doves that you might come across.

Click on this link to see what a feral pigeon would look like as it grows up (it is a racer, but a feral pigeon would look just about the same)

http://www.speedpigeon.com/baby_racing_pigeon.htm

Click on this link to see a couple of feeding methods and what a Eurasian Collared dove looks like as it grows up:

http://community.webshots.com/user/cyro51

Click on this link to see another feeding method (rescue album)

http://community.webshots.com/user/mrenya

If you weigh the pigeon we can probably give you an idea of how often it should be fed and how much. A fledgling collared dove would need about 15 - 20ml per feed three times a day, a feral pigeon of the same age would need 30-40 ml.

Cynthia

[ronnie jo]

hi cynthia.
I live in a Perth suburb in W.A Australia. Thankyou for the links . I will check them out.I will also weigh her. I only have ell' juncko kitchen scales so it will only be an estimate. she was somewhere between 40-50 grams (1.5 oz)
ronnie

[cyro51]

40 - 50 gms is tiny! Her crop should be noticeably larger after eating, but squishy, not hard. Think of it in terms of a party balloon that is 1/4 deflated.

I have looked at her photo and held my thumb against yours for comparison, but because we have so few dove species in the UK it is difficult to really visualise its size. And you will need to know what sort of dove it is to know what it should be eating at that age.

I hope Mel can help.


Cynthia

[ronnie jo]

Hi Cynthia
yes she is very small. This is what started me thinking that she wasnt a pigeon. the pictures of the fledglings seemed huge compared to my little "Cutie"
Ronnie Jo

[lotty69]

hi cynthia,
i have tried to contact all of the names you gave me, 1 was too far out from me ,another there was no answer despite numerous attemps, and the margaret green foundation is supposed to get back to me on monday, well still waiting so ill give them another call tomorrow. could you please give me some help lucky has started losing her feathers on the underside of her neck. although she is eating and drinking well on her own now and has been for 3 days, i have reduced the feeds that i give her to once a day, just as a top up really but i will start to reduce the amount of that feed soon. any ideas
lisa

[Reti]

Hi Lisa,

he might be starting to molt. How old is he now?
I don't know about doves, I was feeding several mourning doves on my balcony and I did see several without feathers on their necks or heads, so I hope this it.
You might add some wheat germ to the seeds. It is rich in vit. E and will help him get through a tough molt.

Reti

[lotty69]

hi reti,
lucky is approx 40 days old now, i hope this is what is is. i would hate to think she is becoming poorly after all this time. thanks for the advice i picked some up today and added it to her food.
thanks lisa