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MaryOfExeter MaryOfExeter is offline
Posted 24th November 2010, 05:45 PM
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: United States
Location: Oceanside, CA
Posts: 11,456
I'm excited This is going to be great! Now the problem is figuring out who I want to send...hmmm...


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pigeonnewb pigeonnewb is offline
Posted 24th November 2010, 07:08 PM
Join Date: Jan 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flapdoodle View Post
Dear Shirley,

I did put 5,000 two bird teams. I just wanted to see if everyone was paying attention. I don't want to tell 5 or 6 sorry you can't send birds. Providing we don't get many more sign up everyone is in, I am going to keep the reg up until Dec 18th. I am sure we will have a few people sign up not able to send birds. If all end up sending birds great I will have the room. The issue will be shipping. There is plenty of room on the truck for all the birds. The race limit is 20 birds in each race, 40 each week. We could have some really great homing pigeons that are sent each week as trainers but never trap in enough time to make the next weeks race team. Not a perfect system but it will work.

I hope you all have a great Thanksgiving.
Tom,
So each week all the birds will go to the races, no matter, if its on your race team or as trainers? I'm just trying to clearify for myself your intentions for the birds we send.
Thanks in advance.
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Flapdoodle Flapdoodle is offline
Posted 24th November 2010, 08:38 PM
Join Date: Nov 2009
Country: United States
Location: Newcastle, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pigeonnewb View Post
Tom,
So each week all the birds will go to the races, no matter, if its on your race team or as trainers? I'm just trying to clearify for myself your intentions for the birds we send.
Thanks in advance.
You are correct. I will do what I can to put together a test race with a couple of other flyers the week before the first race. Let's say I have 80 birds at that point. I will take the first 40 birds clocked from the test race or training toss and enter them in the 1st race. 1st bird in the A race, 2nd in the B race, 3rd in the A race, 4th in the B race... Go down the list until we have 40 birds, all the others will be sent as trainers and released half hour after the B race.

I will take the results from the A and B race as well as the trapping order from those sent as trainers and decide who to send in the next race. If a bird was sent in one of the races but trapped late he will be a trainer the next week and I will move those that were first among the trainers up to fill spots in the A or B race. We could have a bird go to all the races as a trainer and never entered. We could have a bird win the first race, trap late the second race, and be moved to the trainers the rest of the race series. If a bird shows me something I will race him. It is within my best interest to race the best birds and that is what I plan on doing. I will post everything on line and make it all as transparent as I can.

Not as good as a regular one loft race, but by the end we will know which are the best birds.
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pigeonnewb pigeonnewb is offline
Posted 24th November 2010, 11:08 PM
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Country: United States
Posts: 246
Sounds fair enough. Thanks for the reply and clearification.
Chou
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blongboy blongboy is offline
Posted 25th November 2010, 06:01 AM
Join Date: Nov 2009
Country: Pigeon Land
Location: NC Charlotte
Posts: 1,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flapdoodle View Post
You are correct. I will do what I can to put together a test race with a couple of other flyers the week before the first race. Let's say I have 80 birds at that point. I will take the first 40 birds clocked from the test race or training toss and enter them in the 1st race. 1st bird in the A race, 2nd in the B race, 3rd in the A race, 4th in the B race... Go down the list until we have 40 birds, all the others will be sent as trainers and released half hour after the B race.

I will take the results from the A and B race as well as the trapping order from those sent as trainers and decide who to send in the next race. If a bird was sent in one of the races but trapped late he will be a trainer the next week and I will move those that were first among the trainers up to fill spots in the A or B race. We could have a bird go to all the races as a trainer and never entered. We could have a bird win the first race, trap late the second race, and be moved to the trainers the rest of the race series. If a bird shows me something I will race him. It is within my best interest to race the best birds and that is what I plan on doing. I will post everything on line and make it all as transparent as I can.

Not as good as a regular one loft race, but by the end we will know which are the best birds.
sound fair ..every bird get to fly.
hope mine do ok!!
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Big T Big T is offline
Posted 25th November 2010, 06:44 AM
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Georgia, USA
Posts: 1,321
People, I'm sorry to say but there will be losses. This will lower the training numbers but with this many birds we should be able to keep the racing birds at twenty for both the A and B races. The trick for each of us is to send a bird that is consistent. This ensure our bird is in most of the races and scores the most points and win bragging rights. But then that is always the plan. Once again I feel for Flap, he has to make the hard choices. But if each of us send him a bird then we must respect his choice to make my bird a trainer. Besides, after last year I think he knows what he is doing. Also where else are you going to be able to test your bird against so many others for that price. Between feed, gas and time I do not see Flap breaking even.
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MaryOfExeter MaryOfExeter is offline
Posted 25th November 2010, 06:58 AM
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Location: Oceanside, CA
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I agree, I trust his choices I don't mind if my birds (if they are even left by then!) end up being trainers. Even as trainers, it's still basically another race, and I'll still be anxious to see what order they trap.

If your clock is going to tell you what time the trainers clocked in, then they could still be included with the others as far as the PT race results go.
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ace in the hole ace in the hole is offline
Posted 25th November 2010, 08:49 AM
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Location: Fort Pierce, Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryOfExeter View Post
I agree, I trust his choices I don't mind if my birds (if they are even left by then!) end up being trainers. Even as trainers, it's still basically another race, and I'll still be anxious to see what order they trap.

If your clock is going to tell you what time the trainers clocked in, then they could still be included with the others as far as the PT race results go.
That is a good point Becky.

I know it is nice to see were your birds come in with the club and combine but as for the PT race. ( If Tom Agrees ) If there are to many birds the trainers YPM could be calculated and placement given for our PT race.
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conditionfreak conditionfreak is offline
Posted 25th November 2010, 07:35 PM
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hillsboro, Ohio. Just east of Cincinnati.
Posts: 2,852
Maybe I qm missing something, but I see a flaw in this planned system for deciding the PT Champion.

As I understand it, the bird with the most Combine Points will be the PT Winner. Which is different from the way the winner was determined last year. Last year, the PT winner was based only on points earned against other PT entries, and not points earned in the combine races.

So, can a bird earn combine points in the training basket/trailer? No. Can a bird in the B race earn as many points as a bird in the A race?

I don't know for sure, but I think not. Someone enlighten me please.
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MaryOfExeter MaryOfExeter is offline
Posted 25th November 2010, 08:35 PM
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Country: United States
Location: Oceanside, CA
Posts: 11,456
Yes, A and B points are equal. It's two separate races.
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Crazy Pete Crazy Pete is offline
Posted 25th November 2010, 08:43 PM
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Location: Nebraska
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I'm not sure how the training thing works but the A and B races are equil races, points earned would be the same.
Dave
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pigeonnewb pigeonnewb is offline
Posted 25th November 2010, 09:12 PM
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I don't want to stir up the pot any but just my experiences racing club races that. I usually don't compare my birds in race A to the birds in race B and then compare them to the trainers. One reason is the 30 minutes betwen each one, can make a significant impact on how fast they get home. Thats one and a half hours in between the three releases, if flown according to AU rules (which I know Tom's club does.) The time in between the A race and trainers is pretty significant to me in terms of evaluating pigeons performance. Comparing an A race bird to a trainer might not be compared on even grounds. It would be like comparing apples to oranges. For example: Let's say each member in his club DID NOT ship same amount of birds in every race. One race would be less than the other, flying more birds to one general area over another. That race has a certain amount of birds in it neither to pull it one way or another off on or off the line of flight, maybe for a brief moment. If that was the A race that had more birds, it would put the B race bird at an disavantage or advantage depending on the fluctuations in number of birds compared to loft location and the main line of flight. The trainers would be at neither and advantage or disavantage depending on how many trainers were sent on that race. If the only trainers were Tom's then the trainers (in an perfect world) should head straight home and should out perform the race birds in YPM because they wouldn't have no other birds trying to pull them elsewhere. So I really don't know how we can compare each bird to one another UNLESS it was released at the same time with the same group. Other than that it wouldn't be comparing apples to apples.
Just my thoughts on paper. Any ramblings are welcome.
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Pigeon0446 Pigeon0446 is offline
Posted 25th November 2010, 09:14 PM
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Long Island, Ny
Posts: 1,720
They probly won't be the same in both the A and B races since I'm pretty sure they are using the Standard AU point system that's in the winspeed program. Not a customized point system where the first bird would get 100 points and decrese with each bird like some clubs use. But with the Standard AU point system the points are based on how many birds are in the race and normally the B race has less birds. So the winner in the B race could wind up behind a lower placed bird in the A race as far as champion points go if the A has a higher bird count.
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pigeonnewb pigeonnewb is offline
Posted 25th November 2010, 09:23 PM
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Country: United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pigeon0446 View Post
They probly won't be the same in both the A and B races since I'm pretty sure they are using the Standard AU point system that's in the winspeed program. Not a customized point system where the first bird would get 100 points and decrese with each bird like some clubs use. But with the Standard AU point system the points are based on how many birds are in the race and normally the B race has less birds. So the winner in the B race could wind up behind a lower placed bird in the A race as far as champion points go if the A has a higher bird count.
I just think it would be hard to say this is the overall winner if they're not playing on even grounds. Though, I know, for Tom, it will probably be easy to choose the best bird, good birds always stand out.
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Pigeon0446 Pigeon0446 is offline
Posted 25th November 2010, 09:25 PM
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Long Island, Ny
Posts: 1,720
Quote:
Originally Posted by pigeonnewb View Post
I don't want to stir up the pot any but just my experiences racing club races that. I usually don't compare my birds in race A to the birds in race B and then compare them to the trainers. One reason is the 30 minutes betwen each one, can make a significant impact on how fast they get home. Thats one and a half hours in between the three releases, if flown according to AU rules (which I know Tom's club does.) The time in between the A race and trainers is pretty significant to me in terms of evaluating pigeons performance. Comparing an A race bird to a trainer might not be compared on even grounds. It would be like comparing apples to oranges. For example: Let's say each member in his club DID NOT ship same amount of birds in every race. One race would be less than the other, flying more birds to one general area over another. That race has a certain amount of birds in it neither to pull it one way or another off on or off the line of flight, maybe for a brief moment. If that was the A race that had more birds, it would put the B race bird at an disavantage or advantage depending on the fluctuations in number of birds compared to loft location and the main line of flight. The trainers would be at neither and advantage or disavantage depending on how many trainers were sent on that race. If the only trainers were Tom's then the trainers (in an perfect world) should head straight home and should out perform the race birds in YPM because they wouldn't have no other birds trying to pull them elsewhere. So I really don't know how we can compare each bird to one another UNLESS it was released at the same time with the same group. Other than that it wouldn't be comparing apples to apples.
Just my thoughts on paper. Any ramblings are welcome.
We see it here all the time with our money races where they have an auction and regular band race going up a half hour apart. The speeds can be drasticly different. Normally the second race is a lil slower I think because they run into the slower packs from the first race and they wind up joining up and slowing the pack down. Unless it's good blow home day and the winds are calm in the morning and pick up though the day then the later race would make a better speed.
__________________
Winner of the 2011 Young Birds IF Hall of Fame.
Winner of the 2013 Young Birds IF Champion Loft 76 to 150 Lofts.

Check Out my Clubs website see if your interested in any of the races sponsored by my club.
WWW.LindenhurstHPC.COM
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