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pigeonnewb pigeonnewb is offline
Posted 25th November 2010, 09:30 PM
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Yea, hopefully Tom will clearify things for us. I was just putting my thoughts on paper from my past experiences. Maybe I'm to technical.. If so. I'm sorry.
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Alamo Alamo is offline
Posted 26th November 2010, 07:58 AM
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In our combine,we release the $$ Auction Races 1/2 hr before the regular race birds...The combine speeds are allmost 90% of the time faster then the Auction race birds....I think only 1 Auction Race out of 10 races,the speed was faster then the regular race....The reason I think is,the Auction race birdage is around 80 to 110 birds...The combine birdage 300 to 500 birds...More brains to fly a straighter course for home,I think is the answer...Alamo
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Pigeon0446 Pigeon0446 is offline
Posted 26th November 2010, 09:44 AM
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Long Island, Ny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alamo View Post
In our combine,we release the $$ Auction Races 1/2 hr before the regular race birds...The combine speeds are allmost 90% of the time faster then the Auction race birds....I think only 1 Auction Race out of 10 races,the speed was faster then the regular race....The reason I think is,the Auction race birdage is around 80 to 110 birds...The combine birdage 300 to 500 birds...More brains to fly a straighter course for home,I think is the answer...Alamo
I think part of the reason the auction birds make slower speed is because maybe they really aren't the best birds to fly that week they're just shipped because they have to race in that auction race. Plus like you said they are the smaller flock they are more likely to get busted up by another race then the regular race since the regular race has the numbers to to prevent a total bust up of the flock. A small race with 80 birds can can get busted up by sombody's training flock my combine birds aren't getting messed up by anything since we've got 2000 to 2500 birds going up each week and there's nothing that's gonna bust them up the only thing that would rival them around here is the CJC but they would just drag our birds towards home not off course.
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g0ldenb0y55 g0ldenb0y55 is offline
Posted 26th November 2010, 09:51 AM
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Location: Lancaster, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pigeonnewb View Post
Yea, hopefully Tom will clearify things for us. I was just putting my thoughts on paper from my past experiences. Maybe I'm to technical.. If so. I'm sorry.
No need to be sorry, I think you bring up a very good point in terms of an even playing field. I'm now curious to know what everyone's thoughts are....
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pigeonnewb pigeonnewb is offline
Posted 26th November 2010, 10:28 AM
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That was just my point that there are variations and different factors in every release even though they were all at the same race point. So I don't believe judging every pigeon on the same scale is completely fair for all the birds racing from the same point of release even though they had different release times.
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conditionfreak conditionfreak is offline
Posted 26th November 2010, 11:59 AM
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hillsboro, Ohio. Just east of Cincinnati.
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The above few posts made my point concerning having the competition spread out over A, B and training baskets.

It is a flawed system for sure, in determining the "best" bird sent to Flapdoodle from the PT members. However, it is the only way I can see that will allow for so many entries.

Except, the one scenario in which PT birds are raced against themselves and no other birds. But then, that would take Flapdoodle away from racing with his club and combine. I would not want to do that and the trouble and expense of him doing that would be tremendous.

So.... we are going to have to go with his plan as described and make the best of it. Some will not like thier birds perhaps not EVER being in an actual club/combine race, for sure. Some birds will not get their fair shake at the top competition (the B race really doesn't compare with the A race, here in Cincy at least). This is not all bad, as it allows us to have a built in excuse for our bird/s not doing better. Last season, some birds missed a few races for various reasons, some missed more than others, and all birds missed one race for illness (or being "off health"). But all in all, it worked out well.

It should still be fun and well worth the 20 bucks. A toy that your kid or grandkid tires of in two days, could easily cost you 20 bucks, and has no chance of giving you national bragging rights here. The only way to actually make a fair, complete and true judgement of the birds entered into this competition, is to have a large perch entry fee, and that is not even counting any potential prize pool that would naturally be brought up by those paying such a large perch fee.

No. This is the way to go. The PT forum competition started as, and should remain as, for bragging rights only, and most of all, for fun, fun, and more fun. Heck, just the good humored trash talking between some of us was a blast. Even if that lucky Mrs. Smith's bird did beat mine (although she had three entries and I had two). (see, I had a built in excuse for that one too).

Last edited by conditionfreak; 26th November 2010 at 12:01 PM..
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Crazy Pete Crazy Pete is offline
Posted 26th November 2010, 01:05 PM
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Location: Nebraska
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I think you people put too much thought in to a for bragging rights race. If my birds make it through the season I'll be happy, If they do good I'll be thrilled.
Dave
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rackerman rackerman is offline
Posted 26th November 2010, 01:15 PM
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Northeast lower Michigan
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Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by conditionfreak View Post
The above few posts made my point concerning having the competition spread out over A, B and training baskets.

It is a flawed system for sure, in determining the "best" bird sent to Flapdoodle from the PT members. However, it is the only way I can see that will allow for so many entries.

Except, the one scenario in which PT birds are raced against themselves and no other birds. But then, that would take Flapdoodle away from racing with his club and combine. I would not want to do that and the trouble and expense of him doing that would be tremendous.

So.... we are going to have to go with his plan as described and make the best of it. Some will not like thier birds perhaps not EVER being in an actual club/combine race, for sure. Some birds will not get their fair shake at the top competition (the B race really doesn't compare with the A race, here in Cincy at least). This is not all bad, as it allows us to have a built in excuse for our bird/s not doing better. Last season, some birds missed a few races for various reasons, some missed more than others, and all birds missed one race for illness (or being "off health"). But all in all, it worked out well.

It should still be fun and well worth the 20 bucks. A toy that your kid or grandkid tires of in two days, could easily cost you 20 bucks, and has no chance of giving you national bragging rights here. The only way to actually make a fair, complete and true judgement of the birds entered into this competition, is to have a large perch entry fee, and that is not even counting any potential prize pool that would naturally be brought up by those paying such a large perch fee.

No. This is the way to go. The PT forum competition started as, and should remain as, for bragging rights only, and most of all, for fun, fun, and more fun. Heck, just the good humored trash talking between some of us was a blast. Even if that lucky Mrs. Smith's bird did beat mine (although she had three entries and I had two). (see, I had a built in excuse for that one too).
I'm just going to race to see how my birds do and like you say, for the fun of it. I have never raced my birds and I can't wait to see how they do. Bcr1 is also entering and I have his birds, so I will also be sending his birds too. Like I say, all for fun. I hope they do good, if not so be it, like ya say, $20.00 is worth it. CAN'T WAIT............
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Feathered Dragons Feathered Dragons is offline
Posted 26th November 2010, 02:08 PM
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Right On


I'm right there with ya Crazy Pete
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MaryOfExeter MaryOfExeter is offline
Posted 26th November 2010, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcox0112 View Post
I'm right there with ya Crazy Pete
Same here I was just trying to include everyone in the PT race.
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Crazy Pete Crazy Pete is offline
Posted 26th November 2010, 04:22 PM
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Location: Nebraska
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I would like to include everyone, just how are we going to get Warren to send birds. I offered to send $100 to a charity of his wifes choise if he wins. If any body has a better idea lets here it. How do we beat the champ if we have no champ?
Dave
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Feathered Dragons Feathered Dragons is offline
Posted 26th November 2010, 04:31 PM
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Country: United States
Location: Dover, PA
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Talking

Warren


He might be coming out to my place next weekend to check out some new barless I'm getting. If he does, should I lock him up till he says he's going to send birds?
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Crazy Pete Crazy Pete is offline
Posted 26th November 2010, 04:57 PM
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Location: Nebraska
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Not sure about that he get his mind set on something I doubt we will change it. Maybe you should offer his wife a bottle of wine.lol
Dave
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Feathered Dragons Feathered Dragons is offline
Posted 26th November 2010, 05:11 PM
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I'll try that. LOL
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Flapdoodle Flapdoodle is offline
Posted 26th November 2010, 10:20 PM
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Country: United States
Location: Newcastle, CA
Posts: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by conditionfreak View Post
Maybe I qm missing something, but I see a flaw in this planned system for deciding the PT Champion.

As I understand it, the bird with the most Combine Points will be the PT Winner. Which is different from the way the winner was determined last year. Last year, the PT winner was based only on points earned against other PT entries, and not points earned in the combine races.

So, can a bird earn combine points in the training basket/trailer? No. Can a bird in the B race earn as many points as a bird in the A race?

I don't know for sure, but I think not. Someone enlighten me please.
The system is flawed. The biggest issue I see is a bird can come into form or get hot on a day when it was sent as a trainer. It would come in 1st among the trainers but score no points. The next week that bird would get moved to either the A or B race but miss out on earning any points that week. If it is truly a good bird it would keep performing and earn points in the following races but it still missed some points.

I am not sure what we can do about that. I thought about average speed or some points system we could come up with and include trainers. The problem I see with that is the conditions can be so different from the A release to the trainers release. Also the trainers have a huge advantage of being released as a large group out of crates that only contain birds flying back to the same loft.

I really think the combine points is the best way. A bird can win about the same number of points in the A and B race. It depends on the number of birds in the race but that is pretty equal. In the loft this year we had 3 birds from the B race score more points then any bird in the A race.

I know it is not perfect but I think it will work.
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