Birds running late

[Lovelace]

I have raced my first two races of old birds, some birds 1 year old, some late
hatches,started with 17 ended with 5. the first race only one bird came home
at 6:02 in the afternoon two the next day, the next week end not much better. why would you think my birds fly so slow? I took them on a training toss in the middle of the week at 28 miles it took them 66 min. to get home.
yes they were hungry. I don't have a clue, and all these birds have been trained from 40 to 60 miles with other club members.

[Matt D.]

Are they good birds? Sounds like pretty low quality, or unhealthy birds. Do they go other places for food? A 28 minute training toss shouldn't take more than 30 minutes to finish and should beat you home. These birds sound like they didn't fly young birds and were probably trained incorrectly. What were your training methods. You shouldn't lose more than 50% of good young birds after both young and old bird seasons.

[Lovelace]

Matt, they did not fly young bird first time on course,and my first time flying
I trained them starting at 2 miles, 5, 10, 20, 40 two times each once at 60 miles a couple time more here and there. I had a total of 315 miles on the wing before the first race. all my breeders came from club members that I know are no good. I do not know were I went wrong, might be like you said bad blood. I sure could use some help. my e/mail treelineloft@yahoo.com thank you for the info. one more thing when I tossed with club members they would fly at good speed like 1300 and 1400 ypm, I know they were doing this to keep up with the flock. because when I toss them without club members they would not do that good. Matt we also fly with other clubs and they are 60 miles closer to the race course.

[Matt D.]

They could have been distracted by all the other birds... I would have done at least one or two tosses one at a time with 30 minutes inbetween, or how ever long it takes the pigeon to get out of the area. When you get going between 100 mi and 200 miles release them in groups of 3 or 4 and change them up every time. Make sure though they have experience flying as a flock, grouped, and singled.

[Lovelace]

Thank you Matt, I will have to work on this for this years young bird season.

[re lee]

There could be many reason the birds failed to get home. FIRSt how did the other club members do on there returns. If they had slow returns and lost birds as well. Then perhaps weather played a part. Never really know for sure. But do check with other club members, as this gives you an idea on the problem.

[Lovelace]

some of the other club members lost birds also, the weather was grate for race day. one other member in our club only flys old bird out of 4 races
he started with 46 ended with 6

[george simon]

Originally Posted by Lovelace

some of the other club members lost birds also, the weather was grate for race day. one other member in our club only flys old bird out of 4 races
he started with 46 ended with 6

Hi Lovelace, Don't feel bad take a look at the numbers here you started with 17 birds you got 5 back this is 29%,now look at the guy with 46 birds he got 6 back that is only 13% so you see you are doing much better then he is.I just wonder what the other guys in your club are doing.I bet that most of them are also losing birds. I also think that you should check the weather at the release point, you can have nice weather at home but 100 miles away it may not be as good as you think.You should check the weather along the race course,if the weather looks like it will be tough send less birds. Wind can be the thing that effects the race and losses. Most people feel that they must send as many birds as possable,while they should be sending only birds that are in top condishion. GEORGE

[Lovebirds]

Lovelace, I've read this thread a couple of times and was trying to decide what to say to HELP you.
Just because you didn't have good returns does NOT mean that your birds are no good, contrary to what you've been told.
Obviously, I don't know anything about you or your birds, but if they came from your club members, I would expect that they are at least decent, if not the best, whatever that means. Don't be fooled. Even your club members, for the most part, will not give you the best they have, as they don't want you beating them. Not ALL are like that, but I would say there's more with that kind of thinking than those who would willingly give you a few really good birds and not even care if you beat them. I always say that if I get beat on race day by someone that I gave a bird too, the first thing out of thier mouth will be, "I won the race with Renee's bird"........and as far as I'm concerned, that's as good as a personal win.
But, back to your birds.......are you flying at club level or with a combine? That in its self makes a world of difference in how your birds perform.
And, how big your combine is and how spread out it is makes a big difference. There's so many things that play into race day. From the health/condition of your birds, to the weather, to the race station........
And like George said, don't be roped into this idea that you've got to send the numbers to a race to compete. I've never done that and I've done ok. I don't burn up the race sheet week in and week out, but I don't throw my birds away either. Just because you can send 15, 20, or whatever the limit is, doesn't mean that you should. Never send a bird to a race if there's even one question in your mind whether it will make it home or not. Go with your instinct cause most of the time you will be right. I've been laughed at when I sent 4 birds instead of 30. That week I took 1st and 2nd in the A race and 3rd and 4th in the B race. They don't laugh anymore. I've gotten to shipping night with 12 birds and wound up taking 3 or 4 back home.
And lastly, I know I'll catch some slack on this one........I've never personally known anyone who raced yearlings and late hatches in OB races, without ever having raced those birds before, do any good. I know there are people who do it and have success. A first race is a first race and in my mind, it makes no difference if the bird is 6 months old or a year old. There's a huge difference in flying with your loft mates and going home time and time again and all of the sudden being put in baskets with birds going in a dozen different directions. I don't care what anyone says.....it's got to make a difference to these birds on race day.
Most of your birds or a large percentage of them are followers. It takes a very special bird to break from the pack and take the straightest route home, no matter where the other birds are going. How do we know which bird our birds decide to follow? We don't. And even those guys that get a few birds on the drop......there's still a leader in that flock of birds.
You also said something about your birds being hungry. I hope you didn't send them to the race hungry. I doubt you did, but IF you did, don't ever do that. You don't have to "load them up" before the race as long as they are fed correctly the week before the race. (until you get to the longer races). IF the bird doesn't make it home that first day, if he was already hungry, now he's even hungrier and the next day? well, you get my point.
Don't know if any of this helped you at all. Like George said also, when you have a bad race day, always check to see how everyone else did. Sometimes that will tell the tale.

[Lovelace]

I won't to thank everyone here for giving a beginner some help, I will learn
I don't give up that easy.George to answer your question the weather was fine on both ends. thanks for your help.

[Lovelace]

Lovebirds, yes it is a combine that is spread out, we flew this old bird race from the east and all of the combine are east of us, But next young bird race will be flying from the North West course maybe then I will see what happen to my birds, we might see more of there birds come bye our lofts. I thank you for all your help and time, I really do apreciate every thing, sounds like you been flying for some time.

[SmithFamilyLoft]

Originally Posted by Lovelace

I have raced my first two races of old birds, some birds 1 year old, some late
hatches,started with 17 ended with 5. the first race only one bird came home
at 6:02 in the afternoon two the next day, the next week end not much better. why would you think my birds fly so slow? I took them on a training toss in the middle of the week at 28 miles it took them 66 min. to get home.
yes they were hungry. I don't have a clue, and all these birds have been trained from 40 to 60 miles with other club members.

Hello Lovelace,

There have been a number of posts with various suggestions....some may be better the others. The bottom line is when you have results such as this, it will be discouraging. And it is quite possible that you didn't do anything "wrong". The fact that other members also experienced poor returns makes me suspect the transport truck and the liberation, although that to is often an easy scapegoat. But, it is something that should be reviewed by someone. It sounds silly, but our combine discovered....duh.....that the exhaust fumes from the truck were being released just behind the crew cab and like I said....duh....the fumes were going into the truck, so that was corrected some years ago.

There is also a long standing theory, that if YB's are not trained or raced as YB's...that they become "dumb"....there is some evidence to suggest there may be some truth to that, but unless the other members who lost birds were also flying late hatches, then that idea may not be really valid in this case.

At the end of the day, you do the best you can, and then the birds are placed into God's hands, and the whims of Mother Nature. Try not to get discouraged, it is all part of the "game", and at times, even the best among us, must sometimes pull their hair out. Hang in there !

[Lovelace]

Thank you for the halp smithfamilyloft.

[DEEJAY7950]

Sometimes I think when losses are high, I kind of wonder if the birds ran into some "bait" set out by some cities or towns to control wild pigeons, you know the flock pull sort of thing when a group of birds sees another group they tend to check it out and maybe got caught up in a bad situation? Do any of the race committee's check out if the race course enters into an area that regularly sets out bait for feral pigeons? jeeez come to think about it I sure wouldn't want to be the one to even call and ask, I would hate to give any ideas to some that hate pigeons!

[k-will]

as far as yearlings not racing well if not raced as ybs,i have found over the years this to be the exact opposite.i used to always hold a round to guarantee that i would have new blood on my old bird team.they were trained and flown with the other ybs,but not raced.once the yb season started they were moved out of the yb loft.they almost always out flew yearlings from my yb team.i think it is training that is the key,and i might add,not racing a bird too hard as a yb.yb specialists usually dont fly old birds,so it doesnt matter,but if you want to fly yearlings as old birds and have them score,dont fly them hard as ybs,but train them at the proper age.with all the other necessary things done right,your yearlings will fly good in old birds.i had many years where out through the 400 mile station,my yearlings were the stars.some even won 500 mile races.i tried to never ship them to a 600 until atleast 2 years of age.