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ThePigeonShack ThePigeonShack is offline
Posted 27th October 2012, 08:10 PM
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Black Homer Pigeons (Black Diamond Strain)


My buddy gave me 3 pairs of Black Racing homers they are from the Black Diamond strain.

Is this a good racing strain?

I will post pix tomorrow?


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HmoobH8wj HmoobH8wj is offline
Posted 28th October 2012, 04:36 AM
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They okay. I have a hen of black diamond but it not black it a blue bar.
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ejb3810 ejb3810 is offline
Posted 28th October 2012, 06:50 AM
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Someone else may correct this to the degree that I am wrong or incomplete. I believe that the "Black Diamond" is a term originated by Rick Mardis of Continental Breeders Station to market black pigeons. Many of these original breeders for him originated from stock of Peter Van DeMerwe and are largely influenced by Tournier bloodstock.
I don't know what success most have had with them, but they do not seem to be a dominant strain such as the Kannibal, DeRauw-Sablon, Koopman and many others are?
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sdymacz sdymacz is offline
Posted 28th October 2012, 10:29 AM
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If its the Old Long Distance Strain its a was called Philadelphia Blacks or the Black Diamond. Trenton based.

Good read on the strain

http://www.racingpigeonmall.com/loft...s/trenton.html

http://www.racingpigeonmall.com/loft...onvention.html

Last edited by sdymacz; 28th October 2012 at 10:32 AM.
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ThePigeonShack ThePigeonShack is offline
Posted 28th October 2012, 08:50 PM
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Thank you for the information.....Always appreciated
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Fortunate_Son Fortunate_Son is offline
Posted 8th November 2012, 01:04 PM
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I had some blacks that flew like the wind and had an extra flight feather.
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SmithFamilyLoft SmithFamilyLoft is offline
Posted 8th November 2012, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teocallipittz View Post
My buddy gave me 3 pairs of Black Racing homers they are from the Black Diamond strain.

Is this a good racing strain?

I will post pix tomorrow?
From my perspective and experience, the "name" of what some birds are supposed to be, or are called, in vast majority of situations I have experienced, means almost absolutely nothing. Any family of pigeons which has been spread through numerous and in some cases countless hands, means almost by definition, that there is going to be a vast amount of variation within the world population. What that means is there may very well be some truly exceptional world class examples out there, there will be more that most will agree are "very good" and then a lot of them, depending on skill of fanciers who own them, a lot more which are just plain old average pigeons, and like every other pigeon family in the world, there will be those produced which turn out below average to pure junk. Fastest was to ruin a family name, is to sell a lot of them, and have weaker fanciers breed from birds which are very average or junkers, and they are passed off as the best of "XYZ".

The reasons are varied, but crosses are made with other families and different fanciers will select differently. One man's "cull" is another man's "foundation" breeder. There may only actually be one fancier in the world, who is best able to maintain and carry forward on a family of pigeons. And that is the original fancier who developed the family that bears his name. The reason I say this, is if some fancier down stream from the original, turns out to be a Master, producing better then the founder of the strain, good likelihood the birds will soon be called by the new name of the better Master breeder.

What you should be asking, or what you are really asking, is are your three pairs of pigeons from your buddy any good ? And no one on this forum can tell you that with any degree of certainty. We could ask 20 questions, and from that information we can draw some possible conclusions, but the only real way to know is to breed some babies next year, and enter them in various One Loft events. Then you will be able to compare your birds with hundreds or thousands of some of the best names in the business.

What most folks will do, is breed some and enter them in local races. You might do well, then again, you might not. Either way, the local results, in your first year of racing in local competition, will IMHO, tell you not a whole lot. Because the truth is, the best birds in the world, in the hands of an inexperienced flier, may only turn in very average results. Because at best, a new fancier will typically only have an average loft, in an average location, and typically marginal management and training skills. These local events are more telling of the fanciers loft, location, management skills and systems then it is a testing ground for the "best" birds.

Unless there is something you didn't tell us, I wouldn't concern myself much about it. You may be much better off then getting a bunch of junkers from guys cleaning their lofts out and "culling" their junk by passing on to you. From the sounds of it, unless I misread, you are starting out with a family of birds that most likely are related, and thus good, bad or indifferent, I bet you produce a fairly consistent group of YB's. And based on your selections for breeding going forward, they will become in reality IMHO , not Black Diamonds, but your own family of birds which you call whatever you like or floats your boat. Call them Black Diamonds, call them Black Shadows, call them by your last name, call them by your last name + Black Diamonds, etc. Or call them whatever. There are no real rule books covering such things.

There were some Janssens which I assume were red, because they were called Red Fox Janssens. I almost started my loft with those kinds of birds, instead I went with "Ludo Claessen's" which were birds bred by a man by that name. I can call them that if I wish, or I can call them Warren's....name in the end is not what it is important, it is the actual bird.

If I were to play 20 questions with you to judge level of the birds you received (nice friend by the way to give you birds) would start with the racing history of your birds and work back. If the birds you now have are race winners, that is a big plus, the further you must go back in history to find winning racers, then the more typical or common the birds may be. But, that is all academic.

Enjoy them regardless, I own a breed of flying performance pigeons that as fate would have it turned out black. Started out with a mainly tippler kind of bird that were white grizzles, but after introducing a black cock bird about 6 or 7 generations ago, the whole colony in now black. Whole colony traces back to that single black cock bird. Once he was mated to daughters, and then grand daughters, and then black brothers to black sisters, the white is all but gone. Maybe I should call them Black Sapphires or some such sexy name ? Some have flown so high up into the atmosphere that they passed out from lack of oxygen and unfortunately some did not survive the reentry, and others got caught up in the jet stream, but I digress.....

Good Luck with your new birds, and congratulations !
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hillfamilyloft hillfamilyloft is offline
Posted 8th November 2012, 09:16 PM
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I see eye to eye with Warren on this one. Who knows if those three pair are any good. Breed them and test them. If I were breeding for color, I think I would approach things in a different manner. I would not select birds on color first. I would look for birds high up the race sheet that were of the color I wanted.
I looked at our top points birds after all but one race. The 35th bird is Black and has scored points in 3 races. I might try and acquire that bird, breed it selectively for color searching for birds that are black that also race well.
I only have one bird in my loft that I am breeding for color. She is a grizzle. She raced a whole young bird season scoring top 10% three times. She is also half of my bloodline. So three positives in my book. Race record, linage and then color. Her father finished 3rd at 250miles young bird and also flew to 500 miles as an old bird. Her dam that is grizzle also had a good race record and flew out to 500. My thoughts are that I would probably breed her no matter what color she is. My goal is to have a small family of high performance grizzle pigeons. Color being secondary in selection to performance but the final outcome.
My thought are to breed her to a cock from her sires lineage (not grizzle) and then breed her eventually back to a grizzle grandson. May also look for another grizzle or splash performance bird to cross into the family. Right now the club has 5 birds in the top 100 for points that are grizzle. Four are from the same flier. Might be a place to look.
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ejb3810 ejb3810 is offline
Posted 9th November 2012, 07:10 AM
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It is interesting to note how few black pigeons that one sees on the race results sheets.
They are but a variation of the blue bar, and so one might think that there would be many top black birds coming from the superior blue bar gene pools?
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Kastle Loft Kastle Loft is offline
Posted 9th November 2012, 07:26 AM
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I'm going to interpret his original question a bit differently. I think he wants to know his odds based on the little information he has - that his birds are down from a set of birds known as Black Diamonds. Of course all of you are correct in your replies.

"Is this a good racing strain" is a very broad question. The answer to most of these questions begins with "it depends"

But as a relative newcomer myself, I can appreciate the simple question he poses. I'm still very interested to know what is behind a particular family and particularly how pre-potent they may be since my birds are likely pretty far down from the original stars. What are they known for (typically)? What do they cross well with (typically)? etc. etc. Beyond the racing record of immediate family, the more information a person can have about his birds, the better you can asses how they perform for you and whether or not they meet expectations set by the history of the genetics.

In the end, I interpret his question this way, since I've asked it many times myself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA

.
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Last edited by Kastle Loft; 9th November 2012 at 07:38 AM.
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Fortunate_Son Fortunate_Son is offline
Posted 9th November 2012, 08:01 AM
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Boy this opened up a good discussion, very good points perspective and oh so true. I want to congratulate him on receiving such a wonderful gift. I sure his friend didn't give him the birds in order of ruining his flock or wasting his money on feed. I have been looking at birds for sale online and that strain seem to be praised and quite a prize! Enjoy the gift and the pleasure of experimentation. What a lucky man/ woman you are to have friend such as this. Your friend should be applauded too!
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Callum Young Callum Young is offline
Posted 9th November 2012, 08:04 AM
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Yeah he should
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ThePigeonShack ThePigeonShack is offline
Posted 9th November 2012, 10:32 AM
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thank you for your valuable input.

I am only a beginner and took in a few birds form a few good friends. I guess that without birds I would have nothing to experiment with. In fact I have been looking at purchasing a YB kit when available. I want to start out with at least a few good birds.

I understand well the input that Smith Family Loft has provided. the names shouldn't be important in a way. A very important factor to look at should be

"Who is winning what in my area"

To me this sport is all for fun.

My main goal in this sport is to get my 5 year-old son involved in a clean sport like pigeon racing and showing. To teach him responsibility and mainly to keep his mind off the video games and the streets.
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SmithFamilyLoft SmithFamilyLoft is offline
Posted 9th November 2012, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teocallipittz View Post
thank you for your valuable input.

I am only a beginner and took in a few birds form a few good friends. I guess that without birds I would have nothing to experiment with. In fact I have been looking at purchasing a YB kit when available. I want to start out with at least a few good birds.

I understand well the input that Smith Family Loft has provided. the names shouldn't be important in a way. A very important factor to look at should be

"Who is winning what in my area"

To me this sport is all for fun.

My main goal in this sport is to get my 5 year-old son involved in a clean sport like pigeon racing and showing. To teach him responsibility and mainly to keep his mind off the video games and the streets.
With the goals you have, I suspect you will do just fine ! In a season or two or three, you will gain experience, and be in a much better situation to know what you want to do going forward. In most cases, by then you could be owning any number, kind, or types of birds. Fun thing about this hobby, is you can take it very serious or just treat it like something you do for fun.

There are benefits and draw backs from both approaches and everything in-between.
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First To Hatch First To Hatch is offline
Posted 9th November 2012, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teocallipittz View Post
In fact I have been looking at purchasing a YB kit when available. I want to start out with at least a few good birds.
There are a ton of good fliers in California, Hawkbait Lofts to name one.
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