Breeder Suggestions?

[bbcdon]

I would appreciate any input that would help me with my situation. I raced pigeons on a very limited basis 25 years ago. I am planning on getting back into the sport on a limited basis. I would like to purchase 1 or 2 pairs for breeding. I have seen the ads and web sites of many of the well known breeders, such as Hapyco, Double T, Ganus, Bieche, etc. What I would like is an opinion as to which of these or other breeders which you may recommend? I don't know wether to purchase young birds, yearlings, or breeders. Thanks, Don McGowen.

[lawman]

Hi bbcdon,

Ok when you say getting back in on a limited basis, what do you mean?

Are you going to specialize? Youngbirds? Oldbirds Or Futurities? reason I ask is it will make a difference to the type or style of bird you will wish to purchase. Probibly going to start an argument but the days of the all round birds are pretty much over. So it is important to know what you want to be able to do with the birds.

Lawman

[learning]

I'm staying out of this one!

Dan

[bbcdon]

Right now due to my neighborhood, I am considering futurities, and one loft racing. So to answer your question, it would be focusing on young birds. Thanks, Don McGowen.

[bbcdon]

Also, I realize that there are fanciers on this site which have quality birds, so feel free to enter any input. I live in the central valley in California, about half way between Fresno and Bakersfield, about 65 miles from Chic Brooks, the owner of Hapyco Loft. Thanks, Don McGowen.

[bbcdon]

And as far as funds, I do not want to spend thousands per bird, but hundreds are what I am willing to spend per bird. Thanks, Don McGowen.

[SmithFamilyLoft]

Originally Posted by bbcdon

I would appreciate any input that would help me with my situation. I raced pigeons on a very limited basis 25 years ago. I am planning on getting back into the sport on a limited basis. I would like to purchase 1 or 2 pairs for breeding. I have seen the ads and web sites of many of the well known breeders, such as Hapyco, Double T, Ganus, Bieche, etc. What I would like is an opinion as to which of these or other breeders which you may recommend? I don't know wether to purchase young birds, yearlings, or breeders. Thanks, Don McGowen.

Hello Don,

I think you ask a very good question, of which it might be possible to get a hundred different answers. None of them 100% right or wrong. This is one of those issues that some people feel very passionate about, and all have some unique perspective.

How you approach this or any other life type question or choice, like which is better a Chevy or a Ford, will in my opinion, have more of a bearing on the direction you will take, then any factual data or ideas thrown about.

I have some of my own ideas on the subject, but then you should be skeptical of my personal viewpoint, since my opinion will be very biased. I have what you call, an axe to grind. Since I have been known to part with some of my pigeons for ridiculously large amounts of cash, if my wife nags me about the various mortgages I took out, just to purchase hand selected breeding pairs from various Grand Master's.

My opinion on the subject, is to first obtain, or otherwise surround yourself with a very small number of trusted advisors, and go through a sort of apprenticeship program. I have always felt that this sport is as much an art, as it is a science. And the best way to perfect an art is to work under a master of his trade, and learn it from the ground up. The Internet can be a great place of knowledge, but listening to 200 "professors" at a time, will often result in "information overload", and will more often then not, confuse an issue.

Having said that, rather then collect a hodge podge of birds here and there.....I would prefer a carefully cultivated family line....faults and all...and start from there.

If you would like to hear how I approached the issue, you can go to pigeon radio and go to the archives and click on...74. Warren Smith - Smith Family Loft 1/23/07 this address will take you there: http://www.pigeonradio.com/pr/

[bbcdon]

Thank you very much Warren for your advice, and I will follow it. I have seen from the posts on this site, even for the short time since I joined, that you are highly respected, and I am now among those. Thanks, Don McGowen.

[SmithFamilyLoft]

Originally Posted by bbcdon

Thank you very much Warren for your advice, and I will follow it. I have seen from the posts on this site, even for the short time since I joined, that you are highly respected, and I am now among those. Thanks, Don McGowen.

Thank you...but you are too kind....there are many contributors to this forum, some of which have forgotten more about pigeons, then I remember. I only have a very tiny area of expertise and even within that area I have my share of detractors. To believe anything I say on any particular pigeon subject, requires a degree of "Faith", since much of what I deal with is cutting edge, unproven technology. In other words, I sometimes stray from generally accepted known pigeon lore or "facts".

Perhaps it is this "Unconventional" thinking, which has enabled me think "Out Side the Box".....and at times has let me discover the truth is sometimes already in that darn "Box"........

[lawman]

Hi bbcdon,

Well now, you’re near one of the greatest breeders and fliers in California. I sure would not pass up any birds offered from Chic or Judy Brooks loft. Or for that matter most of the people that do well in there club/combine, they all have excellent stock. Now I go for performance regardless of blood type in my birds. Just my preference, doesn’t mean it's any more right or wrong than Warrens approach of close bloodlines.

Now that’s not to say I don’t produce inbred youngsters, I do just not as closely related as Warren has stated his birds are in past posts. The kicker is, my inbreed and outcrosses all have to produce on the race course or they don’t come back into the breeding loft regardless of bloodline(s).

Personally if your going to concentrate more on futurities. Then take a long hard look at the different ones you’re planning on entering. See who's doing the winning and at what distances the birds are performing the best.

Then go out and obtain birds that have performed well at these same distances. If you can’t get the birds themselves, be it due to cost or the owner just doesn’t want to part with it. See if you can obtain youngsters off of the performance bird(s). Next step would be to obtain closely related birds and hope to get a click, (pair that produces the same as the hit bird). None of these come with any guarantees but it should get you started pretty well off.

Just my thoughts,
Lawman

[bbcdon]

Thanks, LAWMAN. I will heed your advice. I just received an e-mail from Hapyco Lofts, stating they have grandchildren to Senna for sale, Don McGowen.

[hillfamilyloft]

bb
One strategy that I use that might work for you is to breed birds for other clubs and for futurities. This does a few things for you. This allows you to breed and raise pigeons without flying them at your own location. Scott McCallister does this in Durango Co. This allows him to have a few birds in town and not distrub the neighbors. They most likely do not even know they are there. Secondly it allows you to test birds under different conditions, something needed for futurities. You can also breed more birds than you could otherwise, having others fly them. I think from your post you want to be competitive in futurities and one loft races. The only advice I could give about birds, is get the best you can find that perform well in futurities. How you do this is the million dollar question. If you are not going to fly them, I would look for some proven breeders to obtain. Not cheap here. You could get young off of winners and breed them together. Another method would be to look at the best fliers in the country over the last few years and obtain stock from them. Elton Dinga, Crazy Al, Warren, Capt Chuck, etc is where I would look. Be ware of the buy the races guys, who enter 24 birds in a 100 bird race. The more they have to advertise the more I would stay away. For Futurities you need fast maturing, rockets at 150 to 350 miles.
Good Luck

Some starting places
Pigeonparadise.com - you can pic up top birds here for thousands
ipigeon.com - Look for futurity winners for auction here. You can pick up top birds for hundreds.

I think some others could add to this list.

Randy

[Halcanada]

Hi bbcdon. Just joined here. Nice site. Doubt if one or two pairs will do it for you. Just not enough offspring to fly all the one loft/futurities etc,. Besides, you will be putting out a lot of cash. Best breeders, ummm.. Ganus/Happyco and all the others have them. Dont jump in and get drowned! Not all good racers breed good racers. Some prepotent stock birds around. Super 73, comes to mind. About the only one I can think of right now. Better if you get some pairs that you like and if you can, fly in any local club/combine first. Then go on from there.

[re lee]

If you want to start right. DO NOT GET young birds that are unproven. At least buy raced young birds that show what they did. Buying proven birds Gets you proven stock. 85 % of young birds turn out not to be the top birds. So buying unraced young birds IS a gamble anytime.. Paper/pedigree just show breeding line performance. On unraced birds You get a paper but have to do the testing. And 2 pair can raise you about 12 birds for raceing 1 loft races. You are trying to start right by getting better and less rather then more and less quality. So I am sure You are looking right. Good luck And take your time.

[bbcdon]

Thanks for all of the good advice. I have communicated with several proven racers on this site, and will take my time, due to the loft is still under construction, Don McGowen.