Infertile Eggs ?

[SmithFamilyLoft]

Yesterday, I banded my my first pair of young birds ! However, I noticed quite a few nests that were not hatching. I started checking eggs, and I noticed that perhaps 50% of my pairs were sitting on infertile eggs and a number where only one egg had hatched. I never had such a problem before. My birds are fed well, given greens, vitamins in the water, oil and good stuff over the feed several times a week, several kinds of grit, minerals etc. etc. so I am really surprized that I should now have this problem. Because of the large number of infertile eggs, I am afraid I have a problem. Anyone have any ideals, suggestions, comments or thoughts ?

[Pigeonpal2002]

Hi Warren,

I don't know if this is what is going on with your birds or not, but could it be due to the time of year? I've read that male pigeons produce a lot less sperm during the winter months. It's biological and common in winter months. Once the days get longer and warmer, sperm production gets back into full swing.

[relofts]

Have you vacinated or put the breeders through treatment for paratyphoid, sometimes this will happen with paratyphoid and salmonella you will see lower fertility, but you should be able to see it in the droppings also?

The other part could be you have increased the number of birds in your breeding program, more birds is equal to more crowding, which means each time the birds are trying to mate the other birds are knocking them off so conception is not completed. We are also having a colder winter then normal in most places and some have had problems with fertility in the cold months, the parents sometimes do not sit tightly enough on the eggs, or the first egg freezes prior to the parents sitting on it, I think it will be a process of elimination for you.

How old are your breeding pigeons? Are you providing Calcium biocarbinate to your birds? I recently spoke with Bert at Global pigeon supply and he discussed older pigeons and fertilization on www.pigeonradios.com very interesting information.

Ellen

[Pigeonpal2002]

I found the link to the site I remembered reading about low sperm count in winter. It's by a pigeon veterinarian Dr. David Marx. Go down to the subheading about Difficulties with Eggs and babies.

http://www.ifpigeon.com/marx.htm

[SmithFamilyLoft]

Boy, you have given me some food for thought. Of the two posts, I hope my sitution is that as listed by Pigeon Pal. The one thing I did do different this year, is I did not put them under lights for two weeks before putting them together. I put them together at the same time I put the lights on.

I am slightly more crowded this year, these are all mostly 3 year olds. I have been giving the Calcium. The one thing I hate to admit, I did not vacinate the same time this year. They were vacinated about six months earlier this year.

When you only fly YB's and you screw up a breeding season, you are done for the year. I guess this is a good reason to log everything you do. Make a "small" change here and there, and before you know it, you can impact your success, good or bad, and not even know why.

[relofts]

I am sure everything will be fine, it may just take you longer to get your youngsters but if you vacinated 6 months ago that should be fine. I wouldn't get to concerned about your young bird team, maybe the youngsters you get this year will be better then ever.

Ellen

[re lee]

Often sometimes
The first round will be infertile. In part hens goes down on eggs fast after mating. Cock is not set yet on being fertile. ect. I will allways check my eggs about 5 days after any laying. If they are clear. I pull then at ten days. Most often the second round of eggs are good. But I say a racing homer can top a rock and have young birds. So if this pursists after the second round. Then try vit, E It helps gettening the program going.

[DAYS END LOFT]

Im really very new to this sport and would think that the more of the good stuff you give your birds the better they will be for it. Now I ask myself is this really true or can good stuff be over done. I Really don't know Warren as sounds like your doing all and more for your birds. Is there an answer to my question? Can the good stuff be over done or not.May not have anything to due with the problem your having. But latley as much as I see advertised for Pigeons health I must, to be fair to myself and the birds ask. If I meet there basic needs is that best for my birds. Very Interesting and would love to know what the final answer is to the problem your having.

[relofts]

Days End,

The problem is you may never know what the problem was it will very likely correct it's self. With anything I think you can over do things, but this will also depend on the type of pigeon you are keeping.

If you have a fancy pigeon you are using for show versus a athletic pigeon you are competing with you are going to want to watch your nutritional value, fats, proteins, vitamins, health and the list goes on.

I do higly suggest for all new people in the sport or involved with pigeons in anyway to get a mentor that you can call with little questions or big questions and they can come visit you and you can go visit them, let them teach you from experience you will be way ahead if you can do this, if you are into racing pigeons contact your organization and ask them for someone that they can suggest to mentor you and ask the Organization to make the first call to contact them and see if it is ok with them, that will give you the introduction which will be a good start for you with your mentor.

Ellen

[re lee]

Show or race the birds needs are near the same. except when you are training and racing. Then one may want to increase the carbs for a little extra energy. There are several methods of health ways out there today that was not around years back. Good feed grit management and the birds can perform. Added edge thru vit, and such can bring balance to the system. But not over doing it is best. A balanced breeding program produces viable birds. Crosses in strains heats up the performance often. WHY perhaps the inbred qualitys have been set to hard. By to much inbreeding. importing or local buying. A certion amount of birds make up a start program. And when bred back on paper to far trying to strentghen from a past bird weakens the pattern. Then the family can not go as readly forward. So the out cross brought strengh back to the birds. Look at say the janssen birds here in america thousand out there. BUT how many frome the brothers or tight controled families. bred passed around far removed from the janssen program. THEY are not really janssens any more are they. BUT the few that have been recantly imporated closer to the program . They are. But back to fertile eggs First round many times can produce blanks. second deturmines ploblems which can be hen cock vit, to early after worming anything. Then inbred program getting to tight out crossing needed .

[SmithFamilyLoft]

Thank you all for your feedback and private emails. I am pretty sure that this particular situation did not come from over doing a good thing, or from inbreeding. I try to practice moderation, and I am aware that certain good things can be toxic at excessive levels. For those who know my strain, you will know that excessive inbreeding is always a concern. The "Master" of this creation has been said to push the envelope. In my case, the 50% infertility affected more of my crosses and totally outside lines more then my own family.

I will know in about four weeks for sure, but at this point I suspect that my early mating in December is the reason. This year, I neglected to put them under lights for a few weeks before pairing, to get the hormones working. I simply placed them together and turned the lights on. I was getting eggs within 7 days, which seemed fast.

Anyway, this is my story, and I am sticking with it. I will be able to check some new eggs in about two weeks or so, and I am betting that the new eggs will be fertile. Thanks to Brad, I am sure this is what the good Dr. was talking about. http://www.ifpigeon.com/marx.htm

[re lee]

Warren that is a good site. Will be very helpful to several people. You should post it on the disscusions board. And I to think as I posted you will have a better second round of eggs. My last post covered What happens in uncontroled breeding programs. I am aware of the ludlo family of birds. You mate them to your ability. Later they become your family of ludlos. Some people do not work sound breeding programs And take the birds down rather then forward. Then sell give away ect. birds that have gone backwards from the strains set quality to just a name with paper. Same with show birds not managed right they go down hill not up