Racing Bird Limits

[Happy]

I Raced "many" yrs., but moved to where there was no racing for 12 yrs.. Now I took up racing again in So. California. There are NO LIMITS on the amount of birds ya can ship to average speed races & any of these can win the Combine/Club now. Any team sport has has limits. In the 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's we could ship 10 OB's & 15 YB's. to Avg. Speed Races. This made it fair to ALL.. There were always as today people with enough money, property, to take care of 200 race birds with there Loft Boys, paid trainers, Vets., etc. to take as good of care as most of us with 30-50 race birds.. We have many shipping 30 to 60 per race & a few that ship 100 to 180 racers.How can these people be proud of there winnings when shipping 3 to 10 times the amount of birds to these races. Where does the amount of entrys end? Am I still in the Old Ages that took us so long to figure fair procedures for Racing, or is this just History repeating itself???

[TAWhatley]

Hi Happy and welcome to the board .. our racing folks will be along shortly to talk to you. I only rescue and rehab pigeons, so can't be of much use on your topic.

I'm in Lake Forest in South Orange County, CA .. where are you?

Terry

[re lee]

Many clubs do have a limit in place. Then have A B and C races.

[Happy]

R E Lee, I'm aware of AB races (though never had them), but Concourse & Club I understand has voted it down before I got here. It seems that Club & Concourse Race Sec. don't want to do the work involved for AB races. The problem also is that Most of So. Cal. is limited by laws to not have over 100 "TOTAL" birds if they are lucky enough to have that law..... Think many of the "way over reasonable limit flyers" want to show heavey compitition when they win & they do, with there advantage of numbers.

[relofts]

Hello,

I also race Pigeons in Central California. We usually have a 20 bird shipping limit to each race and there are the A and B race, now there are those that fly multiple teams that are flying up to 3 teams which would put them at 60 birds in the A race and 60 Birds in the B race. Now from experience I can say I just don't believe in flying and breeding those kind of numbers, I feel that if you breed quality pigeons, train and care for your birds properly, then the quantity can not beat you, you will substain fewer losses then most any that are quantity breeding. I have mananged to fly with only shipping 5 to 10 birds to each race, we took the Average Speed, Champion Bird and so on, we had our fair share of winning and you know what it just didn't matter how many everyone else ships because when they are beat on your few birds it just hurts that much worse. Don't feel like you need to keep up, those mass flyers will help yours home, but when yours get close they will seperate and show them up in the end. We seperated 42 birds into 3 teams in young bird seaon, when we added up the points to the 3 teams we flew and that was to both A and B we also would have take Champion Loft as well, but for reason of having enough flyers in 2 clubs we broke our birds up and flew them so that is the way it works sometimes, all birds did very well and our losses were minimal compared to most.

Ellen

[SmithFamilyLoft]

I almost have to laugh when I read that there are guys who ship over a hundred birds ! You failed to mention if there is a clocking limit ? I fly out of the UPC in Pa. where there is a 20 bird limit and a clocking limit of three. As far as I am concerned, if you have a guy who is shipping a 100 birds or more, that is no different then five lofts shipping 20 birds. I love competing againest the "mob" flyer. I am not worryed about that kind of flyer at all.

I have yet to even ship our limit of 20 birds yet. I normally have a YB team of 20 or less. It has not stopped me from winning a race or collecting a diploma or winning the cash. Only one bird can come in 1ST place. I recently won our big money race and collected the cash for 1ST Place, wanna guess how many birds I shipped ? Six.

I found that with a YB team of 20 or less, I can really get to know each one of them. I can lavish them with the best of care. And I can figure out which one is really in super health and which one to give a rest. There is no way a guy can be shipping 100 to 180 birds and know that, even with all his little loft boys. I will take his money week after week.

[relofts]

Warren,

That is exactly what I am saying, we can do great weekend after weekend and never have to contend with the mass numbers and then pretty soon the mass flyers are really not caring for you when you show them up, but it has been proven over and over again, so the new flyers need to just be taught quality and not quantity, health, nutrition, training, handling, and condition.

Now you ask about clocking Limits, there is no clocking limits, we are an AU chartered club and according to AU rules you can not impose a clocking limit and it be an AU sanctioned race.

Ellen

[re lee]

Alot of clubs will only figure a certion number of birds in the clock. Now you can clock them all but most clubs set a limit on how many counted. And when numbers fail then quality takes over. But some people think they can get a drag by racing big numbers. Anything for a win. But hopefuly they will learn to breed winners not hope for winners.

[Happy]

R E Lofts, You are an exception in my 35 yrs.of racing winning Ave. Speed, High Pt. etc.. with 47 birds in a Combine/Concourse. But I think most of us look each week to see who won the Overall, 2,3,4,5, etc.. In most of the Concourse/Combines I've flown in that just doesn't happen but a few time in one's life. As I said, many of these flyers are very high tech & can take care of there Mob like most can take care of 30-40 with there personnal trainers etc.. When I started flying in 1958 we had 28 Jr. members. out of 125 + lofts. 2/3rds of us were honest jr. flyers, not fakes for a fathers/mothers team. It' was hard to compete with the 10-OB & 15-YB limits in those days, but was at least possible & we did win..... I have no problem with 20-25 bird limits & maybe even 30! But this Concourse in just flat open limit... By the way, there are no clocking limits & probably shouldn't be.... I wonder if Equal Talent Football teams would think it is OK if the other team could put a 60 players against them???? It does only take one to win, but when ya see 15-20 birds on the front page of 40 birds, from guys that shippend 60-180 birds per race, it's not funny. In OB's it gets harder as the 400-500-600 mi. races get into play against these Mobers.....

[relofts]

Thanks for the reply, now we hold our own in the 500 and 600 we had the first in on the 600 in our combine, and felt pretty good at that. Here is a link to our site and we have our results posted there, I have had a number of birds at one time but I just don't think we need it, we may not be able to compete for loft points if we don't fly a full team, but all in all that is ok as we know that had we flown as many we would have probably done well there, over the past years we have won our fair share of Champion Bird, Champion Loft, Champion Long, short, and overall Average speed. We tied for the most wins in the Puget Sound Concourse when we lived up north and I just swear by the numbers are not going to help you it is the quality, health, and training you do with your birds. Anway here is the link to our site www.relofts.com

Ellen

[SmithFamilyLoft]

Originally Posted by relofts

Thanks for the reply, now we hold our own in the 500 and 600 we had the first in on the 600 in our combine, and felt pretty good at that. Here is a link to our site and we have our results posted there, I have had a number of birds at one time but I just don't think we need it, we may not be able to compete for loft points if we don't fly a full team, but all in all that is ok as we know that had we flown as many we would have probably done well there, over the past years we have won our fair share of Champion Bird, Champion Loft, Champion Long, short, and overall Average speed. We tied for the most wins in the Puget Sound Concourse when we lived up north and I just swear by the numbers are not going to help you it is the quality, health, and training you do with your birds. Anway here is the link to our site www.relofts.com

Ellen

I checked out your web pages, looks like a serious racing pigeon loft with some great birds ! I can see why the Mob Flyer is mad at you.

[relofts]

Thanks,

Actually it is just our hobby and we enjoy our pigeons, our heart is into it and after doing this for a few years or so we worked on the way that works best for us. Not all the mob flyers dislike us, as some just love the competition, makes you feel really good when people know your birds well enough that they call you and ask you to donate birds for benefit auctions, you know you are doing something right.

Ellen

[Happy]

Ellen, Your record is super. What Combine/Concourse do you fly in. I know the Fresno area is Very Very Tuff Combine area to fly from, but you-all are 50+ mi. south of there. I know a Joe Emberton that flew in the Visalia Club, but went to Rollers 3-4 yrs. ago when that area flew East that is such a terrible way for the birds in that area to race. Probably before your time in Tulare.. I'm going to tell ya a little more about myself, birds, methods, etc. on another eve. & maybe you can figure some things I'm doing wrong?? I'm going to send a few Winspeed Concourse Reports to ya at your email & you tell me if you still think a small team can compete Well..... Thanks for your replys & help. Happy

[relofts]

We have flown with the Mid Valley Combine, Puget Sound Combine, Central Valley Combine and the North Roads Combine. Yes we are south which makes it tough on the short races, but on the distance we get better, on the 640 we took 3rd with the 2 birds a head of us being from the Madera Club, and it is hard with them due to them being so short of us but we will work on it. I know Joe Emberton he fly's rollers now, he has been over here before, I can't talk him into flying again, they used to fly in the Visalia Club but that club folded up about 2 years ago, they now have a new club called the West Visalia Club, they have some good competition there. Right after we moved back from Washington to California we flew with Visalia and they wanted to fly the course over through the desert and we just didn't feel that was a course we wanted to fly so we moved over to the Tulare club and flew from the North.

Ellen