racing pigeons in suburbia, rooftops

[aarongreen123]

i live smack in the middle of an enormous suburban sprawl. if i get pigeons to race, how will i make sure they don't land on my neighbors roofs, or mine for that matter? is there training? how do i make sure they don't mix with the local feral population? sorry if these are dumb questions....

[TAWhatley]

Yes, the birds have to be trained to return and enter their loft. If you search in this forum for "training", you will turn up a large number of very informative and helpful posts.

Terry

[re lee]

If you fly them hungry they are more prone to fly and trap. Any the land where you donot want you could use a tennis ball to chunk them off. But best method is to allways fly them hungry. And they may at times attract wild birds in. THey are not prone to mixing with nonflock birds much. Even if your next door neighbor has birds. Yours will still go to your home

[Pogohawk]

Flying your birds hungry can cause huge physical and mental damage to your birds. I would not suggest flying your birds hugry for any reason. A racing pigeon is run by fuel as is a car, without anything to burn for fuel your birds body will soon start to deteriorate and its muscles will begin to be eatin away in replacement of energy. Keeping your birds fit, strong and keen is the key to getting them to trap as soon as they reach your loft. Motivation, health and a strong love for home will create the type of bird you are looking for.

When training new birds to trap, simply push them through the bars of the trap or what ever system you use, to teach them to trap quickly and without hesitation put peanuts inside of the trap door. They will soo catch on and compete to be the first ones in. Repeat this process for the first training tosses and their first week or two of free flight around the loft. Feed them normal rations during the day and they will still trap quickly due to their love of peanuts.

To keep your birds off of yours and your neighbors roofs, try waving a flag, and nver let them sit on the roof during training or even as young. They should never, ever learn this bad habit. This may in the end prove the difference between winning and losing a race. I use a super-soaker to keep them off of the lofts roof.

I hope this helps as it has worked for me for years. Remember patients, dedication and a little luck and you'll be a #1 racer in no time.

[Pigeonpal2002]

While your advice is excellent pogohawk, I don't think Re lee meant to infer to fly them starving. There is a difference and this just means that in the morning or before a race you would fly them before being fed. There is no harm done this way to the bird, physically or mentally. As with almost all animals, including humans, food is a very good means of encouragement Pigeons can actually survive for many days without food and come through it very well. I"m not suggesting this, it's just a reference. All your other suggestions are great though.

[SmithFamilyLoft]

I agree with Brad, when Re Lee said fly them hungry, he meant they were in such a state that they were motivated to go back into the loft. Fact is, most fanciers overfeed their birds. Get your hands on a feral and feel his body, then feel a typical racing pigeon.
More often then not, most fanciers harm their birds from too much food, then from not enough. I know of conditions where a simple teaspoon of feed, per day, is all that is needed. You take a fat, overfed pigeon, who has little interest in feed, and I will show you a bird, that the handler will have no control over. Show me a kit of youngsters eager to eat, and you will have a fancier who is the master of his loft.

[Pogohawk]

A ferrel pigeon and a race pigeon are two completely different things. One a thorough bred athlete the other a wild bird with no homing instinct. These are as different as two seperate species. A racing pigeons chest should be round, firm and pink. A ferrel pigeon may be weak, diseased or have other sickly problems. On average a ferrel pigeons is smaller than a homer and there for by trying to use the ferrel as a set standard for your homers you are only doing them harm.

[Pigeonpal2002]

I'm sorry Pogohawk, but I disagree with some of your statements. Although you are correct that ferals are usually a bit smaller than racing pigeons, that has nothing to do with them being sicker, weaker or a separate species. And yes, ferals do actually possess a very reliable and fairly good homing instinct of their own. Where do you think racing pigeons came from? They are direct decendants of the rock dove, wild/feral pigeon. They only difference fundamentally between a rock dove and a racing pigeon is that the racing pigeons have been selectively breed for years to make them bigger, faster and to improve on the natural homing ability that was already in the feral to begin with. I'm not sure either of your comparison of the feral to a racer either in setting a standard to go by. The method of flying birds hungry is a long tested and true method to train birds to fly home and enter their loft quickly and has no affect whatsoever on their health or put them in jeopardy. Please read some more information within this site or other sites about the feral pigeon before posting comments that are generally incorrect. I'm only correcting you because you could potentially be giving wrong information to someone new and doesn't know the facts.

[re lee]

The size of a homer is per family strain. And also. If it has not been to inbred. I have saw many ferals just as big and bigger then some racing types. Old blood lines were very large. They used to say Wegges weres as big as chickens. The wegge family has been used as a base line family for many of the modern racing homers. And the wegge though not as large as it once was. Can still make the cut. And any pigeon will home to a certion extent. Just homers have been bred more towards further distance homing. Far removed from there past breeding The modena was a flying bird bred to fly and drw other modenas away from thee owners loft To rival lofts. The birds would be hung for the owner to see. This was a cruel sport back then. And now days the modena is just raised for show or as a back yard bird.

[SmithFamilyLoft]

fe·ral ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fîrl, fr-)
adj.

Existing in a wild or untamed state.
Having returned to an untamed state from domestication

As you can see from http://dictionary.reference.com/ a "Feral" can be anybreed. Many of the feral's who stop by my place for a brief bite to eat, are retired or formal racing pigeons.
My point of comparsion was only to point out that in a "wild or untamed" state, a pigeon can be in perfect health and still be without any body fat. If one would take the time to consult a Vet who has knowledge of racing pigeons, and ask him about what harm there is to a reduced diet and you will find that Robert and Brad know what they are talking about. Dare say between the three of us, there may be a hundred years of experiece backing these assertions up.

Welcome to "Pigeon Talk" by the way

[Pogohawk]

Though I do not practice your racing style or ideas I do not condem what you do. I have only posted my own methods of racing and have found them to work well for myself and others. And yes I do know what a feral pigeon is. Though I may be younger than most of you does not mean I have any less experience in bird handling. I have worked and lived around pigeons my entire life and I thoroughly understand their inportance and place in this world. I also respect birds of many different types. I frequently practice the art of falconry and hunting and enjoy the sport.

I understand that the numerous types of pigeons have been reformed from the basis of the rock dove. Darwin himself found them to be a great example of the changing of time and selective breeding. Through pigeons the research of genetics has andvanced very rapidly.

[SmithFamilyLoft]

Though I may be younger than most of you does not mean I have any less experience in bird handling. I have worked and lived around pigeons my entire life and I thoroughly understand their inportance and place in this world.

Dear Pogo,

One of the advantages of youth, is you have the advantage of time. Another is that older, more experienced people may share with you their personal experience, in the hope that you may learn from their past mistakes.

To be able to benefit from such advice, one must be willing to listen, and discern what can be learned. Not everything that is shared with you, will turn out to be beneficial or even gospel. But unless you are willing to accept such information, you risk having the wealth of information at your fingertips, cut off. At that point, whatever knowledge you obtain, will be based solely on your own experience.

There are thousands of years of personal experience with pigeons posted on this site. If one has the ability to listen from others experience, then he or she may gain from that.

My experience has been, that the more I learn, the more I realize, I know very little. I was fortunate to have a mentor and teacher, who had about 75 years of experience, including his time in the WW II Army Pigeon Corps. Unfortunately he is no longer alive, but this past year when I won a large money race, I said out loud as the bird hit the landing pad, "My God Earl, You were right ! ". It took me maybe 40 years to realize that. The other thing I realize, with youth there is energy, with age comes wisdom.

I share this with you, because a great fancier once told me, that in the first three years a new guy is "Teachable" after that he becomes a "Expert" and can't learn nothing ! I had 48 years of life experience at that point, and I took that message to heart.

Good luck in the sport.

[brotherstwoloft]

hi smithfamily, this earl sounds like a real nice guy, can you post a little bit more about him and maybe some of his methods that stick out in your mind that are are a little different in the way we normally train. i love to hear advice from people that have more experience and are old timers, i'm a little old school myself. but i love to hear advice from old school flyers.
did earl every tell you any of his war stories, it would be great if you could share some with us. well nice talking to you as usual hope to hear from you soon.

[SmithFamilyLoft]

I was a just a kid and it was 1964, we had recently moved to an old 13 room farmhouse with an old two story barn. It was my grandmother who had allowed me to keep pigeons on her property, but this "new" home with a barn soon became the begginings of "Smith Family Loft". One day I decided to pay "Mister" Ressel a visit to his loft. I was amazed at the beauty of his racing pieons. Mine were "barn" pigeons purchased at a local farmers market. My thoughts were racing, certainly this man who I had never met, would never miss a couple of these wonderful birds ? So I borrowed a few.
Shortly thereafter, Mr. Ressel came to visit my mom when I was at school, and I had a rude surprize when I got home. I was "busted", seems like I "borrowed" a couple of registered and pedigreed homing pigeons that Mr. Ressel had a bill of sale for.
Mr. Ressel left one of the birds there, and as you can imagine, after my father reintroduced me to the "Board of Education", My father and I paid a visit to Mr. Ressel to return the other bird. I wanted to die ! Please just give me another "Board" meeting, but spare me this embrassment. No way !
That was how I first met Mr. Ressel, he gave me a small book about pigeons, and I promised never to committ such a crime again. Thus began our almost forty years of friendship. And an end to my little crime spree.
Earl, (my mother never left me call him that, you call him "Mister" Ressel) had pigeons starting at eight years old, and the skills he learned there were used by the military during WW II. Like a lot of vets, he never wanted to discuss his service. So sorry, he never shared any "War Storys" the only thing I ever got him to say was, "I lost a lot of good friends" and the subject would be changed.
To share with you his "Old School" methods would take a book. And one of the lessons he taught me was to keep my mouth shut, and listen. Something about those who can, do. Those that can't, talk about it. In other words, if there were "secrets" passed down, they were not to be shared with the guys flying againest you.
There are some that say the "Old" methods would not be competitive in todays world, and to some extent that may be true. For instance, we never took the birds further then about a 12 mile training toss. He was satisified if they were flying around the house for a couple of hours at a time. Most importantly, and perhaps this is a real "Old" method. The only drugs he used, was when a bird got canker which was seldom. No vitamins, no drugs, no vaccinations, no special nothing ! He talked about good feed, fresh water, and plenty of fresh air.
This I can say, he had VERY healthy, hardy birds. He had a lot of "Teenagers" in his loft. I mean 15, 16, 17 + old birds which were producing youngsters. I swear he had an old red check cock in 1965 that he raised right after the war, which was still filling eggs at 19 !! Although in such old cocks, he would always pair with a very young hen. By today's standard a cock bird is getting real old at 12 or 13. My thinking is his "Natural" system produced a very hardy strain that never got sick, if they did, they had to recover quickly.
The response I normally get, is well, we didn't have certain sickness back then. I am not so sure.
In the months before he died, I again apoligized for my theft in 64'. I told him I will always cherish his kindness. He told me kids sometimes do stupid things, and went on to warn me about all these new fangled antibotics...and just remember good feed, clean water and plenty of fresh air.
His wife gave me all his old pigeon magazines from the 40's and 50's, and his 1905 model pigeon clock, which he let me use to clock my birds in 1965-69. Along with years of letters from me, and he had kept every one !
Perhaps the greatest thing I learned from Mr. Ressel, was his love of, and for homing pigeons. Because of him, I have a loft in my back yard, and I am here on this site.

God Bless You Mister Ressel

[Pigeonpal2002]

Hi Warren,

I think your mentor knew what he was talking about. I TRULY believe the healthiest birds, get the least amount of medicines. When I had my homing pigeons as a kid, they only got feed and water. Not because I thought this was best, but because I didn't really know any better. I didn't know about all the diseases and treatments then. My birds were healthy and hardy anyways though. Pigeons have a very strong immune system naturally and if they can fight off diseases on their own, they pass this immunity onto their youngsters and create a very resiliant flock. It's the same with almost all animals, the strongest survive to pass on their "superior" genes. The ones that are treated with antibiotics and other medicines are only "artifically" healthy and therefore don't pass on any disease resistant genes. Ultimately, these vaccinated and drug influenced birds are going to weaken the species. With my new baby runts, there will be NO antibiotics given to them just only the most benign things like ACV, probiotics, garlic etc.....AU NATURALE if I can help it