Pigeon-Talk  
Go Back   Pigeon-Talk > Fanciers' Forums > Homing & Racing Pigeons

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Kal-El's Avatar
Kal-El Kal-El is offline
Posted 26th December 2008, 05:06 PM
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,000

Selling of Ganus birds


I want to preface this thread by saying that I do not intend any offense against Mike Ganus or anyone who flies his birds. The purpose of this thread is to see what everyone's thoughts on the numerous sales of his birds on online auctions. Mike seems like a good and honest guy, but why are his birds being sold by people? From the advertisements, Mike Ganus speaks the world of his birds. So why are they everywhere?


Reply With Quote
learning's Avatar
learning learning is offline
Posted 26th December 2008, 06:51 PM
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Canton, Georgia
Age: 51
Posts: 1,121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal-El View Post
I want to preface this thread by saying that I do not intend any offense against Mike Ganus or anyone who flies his birds. The purpose of this thread is to see what everyone's thoughts on the numerous sales of his birds on online auctions. Mike seems like a good and honest guy, but why are his birds being sold by people? From the advertisements, Mike Ganus speaks the world of his birds. So why are they everywhere?
One reason they are everywhere is because Mike is a master marketer. He knows how to advertise his pigeons and because of his agressive marketing, I doubt if there is a racing fancier in the world that doesn't know his name. Also, along those same lines, others are trying to capitalize on Mike's success. A bird that has Ganus bloodlines comands a higher price, in general, than one that doesn't. It doesn't make the bird a good or bad one, just that it has the recognizeable Ganus name associated with it.

Don't get me wrong. Mr. Ganus has spent probably millions of dollars over the years acquiring the very best racing stock in the world. He has a huge investment in his breeding program and nobody can question his success financially. I don't know that his name alone makes his birds any better than anyone elses, but it certainly makes them more desireable in the marketplace. This being a direct result of his marketing genius. I have to admit that I too have a couple of Ganus bands floating around my loft too. Time will tell if they bear fruit in the breeding loft.

Just my two cents,

Dan
Reply With Quote
Kal-El's Avatar
Kal-El Kal-El is offline
Posted 26th December 2008, 07:33 PM
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 1,000
Thank you Dan. After reading numerous advertisements of his birds, I've noticed that every sentence ends with two exclaimation marks! Perhaps it's a double-edged sword. There is hype along with success. And in this game, everything is a crap shoot, unless you have an idea of what you're doing.
Reply With Quote
Pegasus's Avatar
Pegasus Pegasus is offline
Posted 26th December 2008, 09:30 PM
Join Date: Feb 2007
Country: United States
Location: "Steeler Nation" NY
Posts: 1,071

Here are my thoughts on this...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal-El View Post
The purpose of this thread is to see what everyone's thoughts on the numerous sales of his birds on online auctions. Mike seems like a good and honest guy, but why are his birds being sold "by people"? From the advertisements, Mike Ganus speaks the world of his birds. So why are they everywhere?
Let me put my cards on the table for this one; please and again please do not get offended:

From what I think, there are so many fancier all over and once they want their birds to be sold they have to use a "FAMOUS BREEDER/FANCIER/RACER name on the line so the bird will be sold as quick as it shud be...Some fancier just make up band numbers from way back and for all we know the paper says it all...I'll give a strong example here, again this only an example; I have some 2008 birds that I want to get rid of and not performing the way I want them to be, so I will think of any band numbers write it down on the breeder pedigree sheet, so I'll write down Janssens or De Klak name on it with such and such band #'s dated way back to 1980's and presto! I got myself a perfect pedigree bloodlines...Add more to it is use the name SuperCrack or maybe Cher Ami...Just to sell the bird...How will you know where my birds are from unless you start calling all the organizations all over the world and trace all the band numbers that I put on the paper...So the best bet I can think of is once you trace the band numbers and the original breeders will confirm that, that bird bloodlines is good then I say those birds are one heck of a keeper...It all depends on how the bird/s perform during the race...

Another thoughts I want to add is, I want to buy some birds for the price of the bird, not the price of feed, shots or time you gave to the bird. They are not like car parts that you have to replace. And I have to pay for the newly equip gadget that is on the car...Some say the bird who is a prize winner doesn't mean their kids are also a prize winners...

I don't mean to offend anyone...<------------------
__________________
Sтэєlεrs ∆rmy™
"NFL Season Is Here Again"
"Steelers Pride is Worldwide"

Last edited by Pegasus; 27th December 2008 at 07:55 AM. Reason: missing letter and spelling
Reply With Quote
hillfamilyloft's Avatar
hillfamilyloft hillfamilyloft is offline
Posted 26th December 2008, 11:20 PM
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Farmingon New Mexico
Age: 49
Posts: 3,556
Mike is a business man who has had great sucess. I know many fliers who have done well with his birds. He aquires the best you can buy, breeds from them and then sells you their youngsters. Is he a great breeder, or master racer? Who knows, but his is a great marketer. GFL bands and pedigrees bring big bucks. You can go on Ipigeon and see where the money is going, Mike Ganus, and anything Sure Bet. It is funny that you will see Imported birds off the greats pulling $200 and Ganus birds $2000. I guess if the market gets that, more power to the marketer.

As for my sucess with Ganus birds, I have two birds in my breeding loft whos parents are all GFL birds. Personally, I look beyond the GFL birds and to their parents, whom tell me more about the birds. Four are direct Janssen birds, one a world champion, two 4th National Ace pigeons of the NL and one bred a National Ace pigeon of the NL. I think how Mike has benefited all of us is by bringing this blood into the US so we all could benefit from it. I think what matters from this is how he randomly breeds the birds and who we use that blood to create winners.

What it comes down to is that most of the blood in my loft that is sucessful has come from top notch European birds brought over by US Fanciers. Some of these have developed great families of birds ie: Bob Kinney, Vic Miller, and some have brokered blood and pedigrees like Mike. All have benefited my loft.

Randy
__________________
www.hillfamilyloft.com
Reply With Quote
RodSD's Avatar
RodSD RodSD is offline
Posted 26th December 2008, 11:37 PM
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: San Diego
Age: 42
Posts: 4,102
He is a great businessman, marketer, and probably have good birds as well. And we fall with the marketing and buy his "expensive" birds. I, honestly, like his breeders than what he sells.
Reply With Quote
SmithFamilyLoft SmithFamilyLoft is offline
Posted 27th December 2008, 05:14 AM
Join Date: Nov 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 5,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal-El View Post
I want to preface this thread by saying that I do not intend any offense against Mike Ganus or anyone who flies his birds. The purpose of this thread is to see what everyone's thoughts on the numerous sales of his birds on online auctions. Mike seems like a good and honest guy, but why are his birds being sold by people? From the advertisements, Mike Ganus speaks the world of his birds. So why are they everywhere?
Well.....it goes to reason, if you are the Number #1 seller of racing pigeons in the USA, and you have been in that position for the best part of two decades, then there is going to be a lot of people who own your birds around the country.

And since he carries the high end birds, with the high end price tags, it also goes to reason that people will breed their best birds to these purchases. I can tell you from personal experience, once you "Invest" in higher priced birds, you have a tendency to give that bird the best mates, and to cheer for the offspring on race day ! My wife sort of gave me a funny look once when on race day a bird came home early and folded his wings and came right in and I said "Dammit" ! She said.."What's wrong" and I said, the "wrong" bird came home 1st.....

And, as is often the case, good birds come from birds with good birds in the family tree, and when you produce a good one from your Ganus bird's, you may have a tendency to refer to this winner as "From my Ganus stock" when the other parent may have been from "Joe Six-Pack".....this often holds true in the following generations....a fancier may still refer to his YB's as from "My Ganus Stock" when in reality, only the great grand father had a GFL band on it's foot. In such cases, the seller may still say something like, "Down from the Best of Mike Ganus".

Well then...at some point, perhaps you have other stock you want to buy, or want to make room for their offspring or grand children, and you want to sell them. What will get people's attention..."Best of Mike Ganus" or "Best of Joe Six-Pack", whom perhaps nobody outside the club or combine ever heard of ?

It's the old story of "Sucess Breeds Sucess". In terms of the marketing and selling of offspring from Imported birds, there is NO one in the USA that has ever come close to the scale or magintude of his selling sucess...None. His sucess has even spawned a whole bunch of "Best of Ganus" wannabe's.......some who may have done nothing much more then open their check books and buy a whole bunch of YB's from Mike, and then set up shop selling discounted "best of" ..."Ganus" birds.

In the early days, he had the foresite or "smarts" to fly to Europe and buy famous winners directly from the owner's. And then market the offspring from these high end birds directly to fanciers, in a very professional and clever way.

The game is changing however, because of the Internet and International auction sites such as PIPA. See: http://www.pipa.be/

It is now possible for a famous fancier to sell his famous pigeons on such a site, and to get bidders from around the world to bid on it. This has changed the economics for the merchant who imports pigeons and then sells the offspring. It is now possible to purchase a proven racer, with a beautiful family tree, for what a single unproven YB off a famous racer would have normally sold for.

But since Mike Ganus was the most sucessful at what he does, you may be hard pressed to find a sucessful loft in the USA that has not been influcenced in some way, by a bird wearing a GFL band on it's foot, somewhere in that fanciers family tree. Because there are very few, if any sucessful fanciers in the USA, that have pigeons where the family tree is comprized of 100% home grown USA pigeons. Somewhere in the back ground, an "Import" was involved, and the odds are good, that Mike Ganus was involved.

That, is my take on it anyway.
Reply With Quote
spirit wings's Avatar
spirit wings spirit wings is offline
Posted 27th December 2008, 07:32 AM
Join Date: Mar 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 19,714
do you think he has done so well with his own birds because he imported birds?
__________________
BEECH TREE KNOLL LOFT
Reply With Quote
Lovebirds's Avatar
Lovebirds Lovebirds is offline
Posted 27th December 2008, 07:37 AM
Join Date: Sep 2002
Country: United States
Location: Virginia
Age: 53
Posts: 15,546
I've got two birds here (brother and sister) that are off of GFL birds. Anybody want them???
I'm not joking either. They were a gift to us. Don't think I haven't thought about trying to sell them, but I can't bring myself to do that. Just doesn't seem right for some reason. With the pedigrees........I bet I could get at least $100 for each one.
__________________
Renee
Reply With Quote
UncleBuck UncleBuck is offline
Posted 27th December 2008, 12:14 PM
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: West/Cntral Missouri
Posts: 216
Pegasus make a very good point. When I was a kid, I bought some birds from famous pedigree. They, nor their offspring, never performed. After I joined a local pigeon club and started talking about my birds, I found out this guy I bought the birds from was kicked out of the club because he had a habit of embellishing his pedigrees. He would get the newbies (Squabs) to by his birds by giving them a heck of a story as to why his birds were worth so much.
The club had a policy that if you sold birds to anyone, and the birds came with a "Pedigree", you had to sign it. That way, if in the future I bought your birds and later sold them four generations later and used your name, I could produce the original pedigree, proving I actually had some link to your birds. That too could be faked, but at least the club tried to take care of its' members and future potential members.
One of the best things I ever learned was "Buy the Bird, Not the Pedigree." I learned to watch the bird fly, perform, strut, stand, etc...
I wish more people would get involved in clubs. I am trying to find one here in the west central Missouri area/eastern central Kansas area.
The birds I now have are a bunch of scrub homers. I bought them at auction because I was so mad a the way they were being caged. (More than 100 birds in a small box, setting and standing on each other!) Got them home and did not know what to do with them. I am really looking for some rollers/tumblers...
Anyway, Buy the Bird, Not the Pedigree.
Reply With Quote
Pegasus's Avatar
Pegasus Pegasus is offline
Posted 27th December 2008, 01:44 PM
Join Date: Feb 2007
Country: United States
Location: "Steeler Nation" NY
Posts: 1,071
I do thank you UncleBuck...

1st of all I would like to share some things one of my mentor told me, when he gave 2 young cocks (month old) he told me that I will not going to tell you (yet) where their parents came from but instead of convincing me about the 2 young cocks all he said is "I dare you to release them 20 miles with-out toss training" that's all he said...So I train the birds with my very 1st young hen (3 months old) after 2 months of loft flying with the 2 cocks I called my mentor and notify him that I will toss them 20 miles that day...I went to Jersey and release them there, my hen been there about 3X already, before he gave me the cocks...I release the 1st cock, waited for about 20 minutes then the 2nd cock, another 20 minutes gone by, release the hen...Now remember 20 is a long time for the next bird to be release...I am not really sure what he want me to prove but I'm so eager to know what and where my young cocks are from so I did what he dare me to do...All he said was if the cocks got lost he will replace 4 birds with Gold bands from World of Wings, I never search anything about WOW before until he told me about the gold bands...When I got home three of them are home and seems to be eager to be home...I went to see my mentor and all he said is he don't have the papers to prove to me but all he said is the mother of the cocks is a Hall of Famer and the father is a well known breed good racers...I think he prove me something that I can rely on his words than the papers...

Time goes by I adopt the fact of " it all depends on how you train your birds" strong example is the human athlete; they just don't join the professional sports if they don't have the ability, the team coaches will see what kind of ability that athlete have then he will be qualified to join the team...Hard and long practice will pay-up in the end...

I always compare human athlete to my birds, if I don't train them the right way they can't perform or win the race...
__________________
Sтэєlεrs ∆rmy™
"NFL Season Is Here Again"
"Steelers Pride is Worldwide"
Reply With Quote
conditionfreak conditionfreak is offline
Posted 27th December 2008, 02:49 PM
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Hillsboro, Ohio. Just east of Cincinnati.
Age: 61
Posts: 2,722
I admit I have some GFL birds in my loft, and I admit I bought them BECAUSE the are GFL birds. So far, they are okay.

My best birds thus far, came from white release birds that cost me 35 bucks for one and the seller gave me two more for free. Off spring from the GFL birds and the white racers have been trained together, and the white birds are usually the first home. But not always.

I am re-pairing my GFL birds this year, but am keeping the whites with the mates they have. Because I am satisfied with the whites but not so much with the GFL birds (yet).

Speaking of Mike Ganus buying birds from the best "overseas", I have read that the best flyers overseas do not even care about pedigrees, and only produce pedigrees for U.S. buyers. They care about the pigeon and not the pedigree, and may not (except from memory) know who came from what.

You are right that it would be easy to say AU-09-oo1-ARPU is a direct decscendant of Sure Bet or Blue Miracle, and in reality, it isn't even close. I am sure that it happens all of the time. Then (like me), I purchase a Blue Miracle son from one guy and a blue miracle daughter from another guy, and mate them up, thinking I have the Blue Miracle "line", but in reality, I could have the whats-his-name line crossed with the stray-bird-that-came-to-my-loft-and-the-original-owner-didn't-want-it-back line.

Is that why so many fantastic pedigree birds don't fly so well? Are 85% of the pedigrees "out there" wrong?

I listen to some of the great flyers on Pigeon Talk Radio, and some pair up their birds by eye sign, some by pedigree, and some by the method of, "let them pick their own mates in the loft and if you have nothing but good birds in your loft, you will be just fine."

Pigeon racing reminds me of Texas Hold'em Poker. You can have pocket aces and the other guy can have a 2 and 3 off suit. The flop comes and now he has a full house and you end up with two pair. Happens many times. Their is a matter of luck (and in same cases, just numbers) in pigeon racing. I send four birds to a race and Ganus sends forty birds to a race, and he beats me 95 percent of the time. Well, of course. Or I enter two one loft races a year and he enters fifty. Who is going to be able to say that he has a pair that produced one loft race winners? Him of course.

There is no doubt (as indicated by others here) that Ganus has put a fortune into obtaining what he and others believe, are the best of the best. So, he deserves to recoup his investment by selling the offspring. A GFL band on any old pigeon, is worth big bucks. No matter if the pigeon has ever won a race or not.
Reply With Quote
Alamo's Avatar
Alamo Alamo is offline
Posted 27th December 2008, 04:59 PM
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 1,982
A couple of issues back in the Racing Pigeon Digest,there was a two page add selling allmost 100 GFL banded birds by two lofts...Why do you think these guys were DUMPING the GFL birds ???...Before you go out and spend ANY money,no matter HOW MUCH you spend,it doesn`t mean much about the pedigree,or the seller`s results flying his pigeons...#1...Every bird bred by Ganus,or Bieche,or Dworek,or Koch,or whomever,does not mean they are going to click for you...It stands to reason,it is a little bit of a gamble breeding from birds purchased..They might come from "Big TIME" parents,but they will only breed winners if they are capable of PASSING ON the good genes..Not all pigeons fall into this catagory...#2...You buy YB`s from any of the great names above,BUT you can`t buy the way they handle/train/feed etc...That`s the part you have to EARN on your own by trial & error...I give alot of credit to Ganus`s partners he has overseas...They are GREAT handlers of pigeons,and probally also have pretty good loft location...Add that they have an excellent medication program ongoing,and great pigeons,now you know why they win so much...You take any of those reasons I gave for their results away,and they have results just like you and me...You can only purchase some pigeons from them,and they will probally be good pigeons,but there are NO guarentees on how good the babies they breed will be...Many top pigeon sellers were asked,If you were going to buy pigeons from a great pigeon flyer" what would you buy ??? The answers were allmost the same..Buy the GREAT PIGEONS if you can,if not,buy their brother or sister,if not buy their children...That`s it...No grandchildren of the "PAIR"...NO GREAT grandchildren etc....The farther you get away from the TREE,the less of a chance for sucess with breeding winners from what you purchased !!!...Alamo
Reply With Quote
fastpitch dad's Avatar
fastpitch dad fastpitch dad is offline
Posted 27th December 2008, 05:11 PM
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: north carolina
Posts: 286
what I find interesting is the same seller selling birds at two different auctions.
Auction "A" the birds price will start say $200-$500 and at auction "B" they start
from $25-$100. I guess he puts his best birds on the "A" auction.
__________________
failing to plan is planning to fail

http://carolinacardinals-baity.clubspaces.com
Reply With Quote
LokotaLoft
Posted 27th December 2008, 08:15 PM
Posts: n/a
I will totally agree that names arent everything and just because a bird has a gfl band doesnt mean its got what it takes to win races or even get you into the game of winning ..race results seem to be the only way to find a bird that has a directional influence to get you into the winners circle when it all comes down to it
Reply With Quote
Reply

 
You may also search for:

People searched for this, also searched for these:

rich dworek racing pigeons
dworek pigeons

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Sitemap:1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2000-2013 pigeons.biz