Piggi and Tipsey journal

[amyable]

Hi Chris,

I'm so sorry this has happened, it was all going so well, but I'm sure things will settle once you have an aviary for them and then you can decide, as you say when it's safe for them to come in for a visit.

Send my best wishes to John and I hope he feels better soon.

I like the new name Stripey, I think I picture what he looks like from that!!

I've just had a narrow escape, or should I say Danni has had a narrow escape from my dogs. I still bring him in at night to go in his box in the cupboard. I usually keep the door slightly open of course, but the little monkey has decided lately he doesn't want to stay in there all the time, and has started to jump out and walk around the bathroom floor.
Tonight my husband went into the room to get something from the fridge and never noticed Danni running about his feet. The dogs noticed him straight away and dived for him.
There was me screaming at them to leave, I knocked a bottle on the floor that smashed, and there was Danni flying around the kitchen. I caught him as he landed in the sink and put him back in his box and close the door.
Many a morning I find he has jumped down from his shelf and is sitting amongst the plastic bags I keep in the cupboard aswell!!! He really needs a proper home.

I hope your patients are doing ok. Love to the 'boys',

Janet

[chriss80]

Hi Janet, you must of got such a fright when that happened. I am glad nothing bad happened. Did your husband noticed the pigeon in the end?


The aviary should arrive in the middle of the week sometime. We have found a place where they make all kind of wooden sheds and things like that.
We found something that would do great for pigeons. They wore able to customise the size for us slightly to fit our place. I think it was supposed to be for a goat or dog originally.
Anyway we wanted a front net part which they customized and also the net meets the floor so Tipsey not being able to fly can see outside too. They only thing they did not had was the fine net. They do not do aviaries for birds and the net they had was way to big. Is the only thing we have to buy and a stapler to attach it to the wood. And I also need to find something to treat the wood on the long term so it does not rot that is not toxic for birds.
My husband is feeling better now that he is not being exposed to the birds. The allergy test should be ready on Monday.

[amyable]

Hi Christina,

Great news about the aviary, I'm really jealous. You are so considerate, making sure that Tipsey can see out aswell. He was very good at jumping up steps as I recall. You could put a series of branches or something at different levels and he could then get up to the 'big boy's height in case you get some ladies eventually, and they don't like living on the ground!!! See, I'm already organising it as if it was my own. it will be good fun organising it for them both.
I'm glad John is feeling better, you are lucky he is so attached to the birds, it would have been so upsetting if they'd had to go.

I look forward to seeing pictures of their home when you get it finished.

Janet

[chriss80]

Loads of things happened.

First of all my husbands allergy test has not arrived yet.

The pigeon’s house has arrived. It is of good quality made well and I am very pleased with it. We have put the net up and some perches. We still have a few things to do : I bought some paint ( animal friendly) to apply on it on the outside for the wood so it does not rot. I need to get something to cover the wood floor with. For now I had improvised something in order to move a bird in so It doesn’t get messy, plastic and some newspapers.

I have reed that quails can be kept at the bottom of the aviary with pigeons and that they are quite birds. I told that to my husband and he wants to get some quails. We will also make an extension to the aviary completely with wood skeleton covered in net wire.

We have moved Piggi today there already. We thought to keep Tipsey in the house because it might be a bit cold for him in the nights also not to mention that they might be fighting both being males. I will be moving Tipsey too once I get hens for both of them. Piggi dos not know what to make of this new place but he quickly became bossy.



More pics soon

Janet, any on unrealisable hens on the horizon?

[Lovebirds]

Originally Posted by chriss80

Loads of things happened.

First of all my husbands allergy test has not arrived yet.

The pigeon’s house has arrived. It is of good quality made well and I am very pleased with it. We have put the net up and some perches. We still have a few things to do : I bought some paint ( animal friendly) to apply on it on the outside for the wood so it does not rot. I need to get something to cover the wood floor with. For now I had improvised something in order to move a bird in so It doesn’t get messy, plastic and some newspapers.

I have reed that quails can be kept at the bottom of the aviary with pigeons and that they are quite birds. I told that to my husband and he wants to get some quails. We will also make an extension to the aviary completely with wood skeleton covered in net wire.

We have moved Piggi today there already. We thought to keep Tipsey in the house because it might be a bit cold for him in the nights also not to mention that they might be fighting both being males. I will be moving Tipsey too once I get hens for both of them. Piggi dos not know what to make of this new place but he quickly became bossy.



More pics soon

Janet, any on unrealisable hens on the horizon?

I haven't kept up with this whole thread.....just read bits a pieces.......however, I will warn you...........if you are going to put two male birds in the same pen/cage.....you need to put them both in at the same time. It's almost certain that if you put ONE in and try to add another one later, the first one will fight for all he's worth to defend what HE percieves to be HIS space. Even if he's only in there for a few days alone. He will think that it belongs to him and any other male bird will be seen as an intruder. Save yourself some grief. Either put both in now or wait until they both can be put in together.
Waiting to get hens for both birds won't resolve the issue. It will be somewhat easier to introduce two hens to the two boys at a later time. They may still fight anyway, but it's "for sure" that they will fight if you try to move them into the pen one at a time.

[chriss80]

Hi Renee,

Thank you for the advice, I was keep thinking haw to put these birds together. Piggi is strong and will win in a fight with Tipsey. Tipsey is a unique bird; I think poor thing is a bit brain damaged ever so slightly. Tipsey does not understand what fear it, absolutely nothing scares him and will loose in a fight with Piggi because Tipsey is disable and smaller.

I will put Tipsey inside ASAP. When I am away I might put Tipsey in an improvised pen area. I am really worried that they will fight and poke each others eye out. Or maybe I should let them dispute their territory, could be risky but it might worth it, AHH i will just have to find a way

Pigeons relations are complicated are complicated

[chriss80]

I hear a big noise outside in the garden tonight in the aviary area. I went and looked and there was a CAT, ugly black thing trying to get trough the net I have stapled so carefully. Not that the cat would of reach Piggi, as he is in an enclosed wood box part of the aviary, the cat would need a bloody axe to get trough that. It sure made a lot of noise while the cat was going at the net I am going to staple another row of net tomorrow, just to be on the safe side. What a night!

[amyable]

Wow Christina, what a busy time you're having!
It's great the aviary has arrived.
I've been reading the posts about putting them in together, I feel guilty as you were so kind to give Tipsey a home. I suppose as Piggi and Tipsey have already shared a room space, they might have it sorted already as to who is in charge.

The two I have are now sharing the potting shed as I don't have anywhere else for them to live. Danni, the ex PMV was out there first and then I introduced Charlie Farley. Danni was very curious when he first came in and I think very pleased to see anther pigeon as he's been on his own since February.

Their behaviour is totally different to Tipsey's though, which is still making me think they might be female. There is no rapport between them, they sit mostly on different perches, when one preens the other starts but I don't see much else. The only time Danni makes any sound is when I first put him in the shed in the morning, he does about two coos and turns around, but nothing more. Certainly no displaying behaviour at all like Tipsey and Piggi do.
Charlie has never made a sound at all, and is so mild mannered too.

The only time I've seen any 'aggression', is when I go to pick Charlie up and he cowers in the corner and Danni shuffles over and sits very close as if to protect him. On two occasions he has started to peck at Charlies head. Now I don't know what that was all about. I did see one of the hens that got killed at the 'sanctuary' do that to another bird, and she was a hen and think warning off another hen from 'her man'. Still they seem to have got used to being around each other.

As far as an unreleasable hen goes, I'm more than sure that the one that is left at the 'sanctuary' is a hen. Although she is alone now with the Woodie, last week she was sitting on a new nest again, with no eggs in. It is always possible the Woodie is a female, but that one was pottering about her but not sitting in the nest, so I'm hopeful she is the one for Tipsey. Mind you Piggi might think otherwise and nuzzle in.

I'll see how things look this week when I go in. Two new Woodies have arrived but aren't in the main pen yet, I hope they will be able to go in there and keep the Woodie company, as I'd feel bad taking the pigeon away at the moment , as they seem such good friends.

I wish I knew what my present two were, as they will need a 'forever' home as one is a PMV recovery and the one with the wound, although can fly from perch to perch, I'm not convinced will be good enough to release. I'll have to watch for a while to see how it goes. If they were both females they would be ideal!!! Don't worry we'll have you sorted with mates one way or another!!!!

I'll keep you posted.

Janet

[chriss80]

I do hope at least one of your birds turns out to be a female. I really don’t know haw we can find out. They say that if hens don’t have mates they don’t make any eggs, so that is not going to happened probably. Maybe with observation of their behaviours e in time things are going to appear more clear. If I had more males in the aviary I think there will be more fights then in the Chinese movies lol

Today the situation in the aviary is very tense. Tipsey keeps running after Piggi and coos teritorial all the time. I keep an eye on them. Piggi goes on a high pearch and flicks his wings at Tipsey but he comes down to annoy Tipsey. Maybe they are going to settle down or maybe now. The cage is ready in case they don’t get along so one of them can go in, they will just have to take turns if they don’t get along. When I had them in that spare room and Tipsey was in the cage Piggi used to come down and just sit down and relax near Tipsey close the gridlines of his cage.

[amyable]

Hi Chris,
I agree the last thing you need is another male so that's why I'm watching hard to see what signs I can pick up before I do any more.
I'm sure the boys will sort things out after a while, don't forget I told you if it didn't work out I'd always have Tipsey back rather than you have a problem.

Just think how does everyone get on when they've got a lot of pigeons, like Cynthia for instance, they must have a way of living together when in a large flock.

I wonder, do all males clash when sharing with another male. If so then these two here are definitely not male. Perhaps someone with a lot of experience can throw some light on how two females behave, and whether the fact that Charlie doesn't make a sound is significant. In saying that, Tipsey didn't always make a lot of noise in the early days. It is very confusing.

Janet

[Lovebirds]

Originally Posted by amyable

Just think how does everyone get on when they've got a lot of pigeons, like Cynthia for instance, they must have a way of living together when in a large flock.

I wonder, do all males clash when sharing with another male.
Janet

The truth is, any time you introduce a new bird to the flock, they all have to establish a pecking order.
Of course a feral flock of pigeons is different than a flock kept in a loft. The first thing of course is the amount of space.
Say a cage that is 4 X 4 X 4..........you could put two males in there together from the very start and they would learn to not invade each others space. If you put on single male in there and then days or weeks later, try to put a new male it..........it most likely will not work. The first male has already established (in his mind) that the whole building is HIS and this other guy is intruding.
Now, if you are talking about a bigger loft, say 8 X 10......there is STILL a bit of a scuffle when a new bird is introduced, BUT, there is enough space that they will work it out with a little time and patience. Most lofts have either perches or nest boxes and these things are considered each individual birds "own space" and they learn to share the rest of the loft. As long an each bird stays in his box only or on his perch only, there's not much of a problem.
Females CAN act the same way, but usually settle their differences pretty quickly. Most just aren't as dominant as the males. Of course, there's always the exception, but for the most part, females will get along much better after the dust settles.

[chriss80]

Yesterday things calmed down in the loft after all. Yesterday they ran one after another to start a fight but no real fighting happened, maybe a few pecks on the feathers but it stayed that way. I have no interfered. On the good side Tipsey if he falls on his back he is able to get back up again, he used to get stuck like that for ages and I am so glad that has improved. Today the birds tolerate one another more. The situation is not so tense. Piggi sits on his high perches. The aviary is 9 foot long, 5 foot wide and 6 foot tall. Hopefully there is enough room for them to sort it out.

When I introduced Tipsey to Piggi I found out quite fast that they are both males. They wore both dancing in the same way and they wore both very territorial all the time and.

Janet, can you make some videos on what your 2 birds act with each others or on they own.

[amyable]

Hi Chris,

Glad they are calming down.

Lovebirds, interesting info, thanks. I suppose there's always the scenario that mine could be a male and female, but just don't fancy each other! They like to keep us guessing.

Christina, good idea, I'll try for a video. To be honest they don't seem to do much, well not when I poke my nose in to have a look anyway.

Hope today is even better,

Janet

[amyable]

I've just been watching Danni and Charlie to see how they are interacting tonight.
They both get edgy when I go in the shed but fly about when they see me filling up their seed dishes. ( That's something I've noticed is how much they both eat, especially Charlie, he/she eats well compared to what Tipsey had).

Tonight they were both sitting on the shelf where they go at night. I've started to leave them out there now all the time. If I tried to stroke Danni I got my usual peck and wingslap, but then he would coo, not strutt about though. I have tried the nodding head thing I used to do with Tipsey, and he has started doing that back a little too. I can touch Charlie and he doesn't bite or anything, but is very wary of me while I'm still dealing with his wound.

All of a sudden Danni began pecking at Charlie's head and chased him off the shelf, Charlie doesn't respond with aggression, he's very timid. Then Danni cooed and did turn a couple of circles as if claiming the shelf as his.

I've just been down to peek again and they are both sitting back on the shelf quite near to each other. I do remember Mrs Speckles at the 'sanctuary' fighting quite aggressively with another pigeon I think was a hen, and chasing her off when she was setting up home with Blacky.

How is John and his allergy?

[chriss80]

Hi Janet, we seem to live in a male pigeons dominated world LOL.

Piggi and Tipsey are being all right sharing the aviary. Piggi has interdiction from Tipsey in coming any ware on the floor as he will be chased off. I will be putting some perches up big enough so I can put water and food for Piggi because I am not sure if Piggi gets the chance to drink enough water being on the floor on Tpsey’s territory.

I have been talking with Cynthia and she thinks that a rat can chew his way in easily trough the wood over night into the aviary so I will be stapling mesh on the aviary floor and high up a bit to stop rats in caser they attempt something. Other alternative which would be much easier it to just simply lock Piggi and Tipsey into another cage overnight inside the sleeping wood shed. I am thinking I will do the option number 2 with another cage as neither I nor my husbands are any good on doing crafty stuff. The problem that arises in this case is that maybe a rat a rat will chew his way in during the day in the aviary. Are they that active in the day time these rats? I do have loads of mesh but no brain to do it.

My husbands allergy test has come back it seems, much more later then expected and after many phone calls to NHS asking if it has arrived yet. This is getting even more trickier as they do not tell him over the phone what the test is saying, oh no, he has to have an appointment with a doctor to interpret it and since my husband is not feeling ill at all anymore the appointment will be sometime after one month when they can bother their back sides to see him.