15ish day old, won't eat

[kmey006]

Hi, I'm Kim from New Zealand.
I came upon a pigeon yesterday (15 day oldish judging from the website) and have kept him in a box with torn up newspaper and breathable cloth over the top. He seemed quite perky yesterday afternoon and I was able to feed him some fine grainy Hare Krishna muesli mixed with water (contains no additives). He won't open his beak for food but some is seeping in. However, today he seems more subdued, even a little grumpy, and has virtually no interest in taking food, although I have given him some of the recommended salt and sugar water electrolyte. I've tried crushed up biscuits, bread crumbs and even mince in worm-like strands. I think he may not have learnt about pecking yet. If I can get him to eat how often should he be fed?
It is quite warm here at the moment...too hot for towels and heating pads I think...please correct me if I'm wrong. He climbs out of any towels I put around him anyway.
Common pigeon's are regarded as pests in Auckland so I'm dubious about handing him over to the SPCA.
Thanks,
Kim and Pushkin the pigeon

[Reti]

Thank you for taking in this little baby.
He is too young yet to eat and drink on his own.
Is there a petstore where you can buy baby food for birds. I comes in powder and you mix it to make a liquid formula.

Here is link for feeding baby pigeons.

http://www.pigeons.biz/forum/showthread.phb?t=9682

Reti

[Trees Gray]

Hello and thank you for helping the babies.

Baby pigeons don't gape for food, they put their beaks inside the parents beaks and eat. No worms please.

If the babies are 15 days old it needs a good baby bird formula every 4 hours, and needs to be fed with a syringe or tube. At this age small seeds can also be fed.

You can also use a baby bottle with a hole cut in the nipple so the baby can put its beak inside and gobble down the formula. They just need to know you are trying to feed it, by rubbing a little food on the beak and then showing them the bottle.

Make sure to keep them confined to a nice nest size bowl where their feet won't slip out from under them. they need a towel, or other surface where they can maintain a grip. Put the bowl inside a box, that is free from drafts of air.

[Reti]

I don't know why the link doesn't work.
Try this one

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9682

[kmey006]

Hi, thanks for the tips. I got hold of some Kaytee extra bird formula and made it up according to the directions. But he just doesn't seem that interested, poor little tyke. I've just fed him 5mL of the formula and he struggled against it the whole time. Clearly the experience is distressing to him. With the balloon method he just stands there beak covered in formula, and doesn't swallow a drop. Should I continue to force-feed him given that other people on this forum have advised 30mL a feed 3 times a week? He must be starving because he hasn't eaten very much for a day and a night now! His crop feels cushiony but it's difficult to tell whether it's full or not.

Awaiting your expert opinions.

[Trees Gray]

Hello again,

Thanks for helping this youngster.

Can you look down the birds throat and see if there is any kind of blockage, like yellow cheezy wet looking stuff anywhere down the throat or beak? Also, when gently feeling the crop do you feel anything hard or large mass in it? Is it all cushy?

Is the bird pooping regurlarly and what does the poop look like? I'm just wondering if he was eating well before you found him, or if there is something preventing him from digesting his food.

Please update as soon as you can.

[Victor]

Kim, your thoughts about what your SPCA are correct. They will most likely euthanized the baby pigeon. Thanks for your concern.

[Reti]

I he hasn't eaten for that long, try firtst to make a very liquid formula. He will need hydration first.
Check his throat as Treesa mentioned.
Then force feed him cause he has to eat. Even if you give him 5ml every hour with an eye dropper.
For now do not give a big amount at one time, at least not yet.

Reti

[kmey006]

Treesa,
His throat is clear, that is I cannot see any cheesey coloured substance. His crop feels cushiony all over but definitely does not seem full. There is a hard bump on his chest...I think that's supposed to be there. I wasn't sure so I'm sending you a picture. The bump correspongds to the uppermost bald spot on his chest.

As for his poop, it was white and brown containing dark brown worm-like looking things. It seems like he's pooping less maybe 10-20 times in the last 8 hours. It's hard to tell. The poop is now orangey-brown smears. Never had to describe bird poop before, not sure what to expect.

Thanks for your advice Reti. I will feed him a small amount every hour.

Kim

[Pigeonpal2002]

Hi Kim,

Just wanted to suggest a few things here to you. When you're making the kaytee formula, make sure it's very well mixed-no lumps but very smooth. Also, this formula works best for pigeons if kept a little bit thinner than recommended at each stage. Don't microwave the formula either because of the possibility of creating hot spots in the formula that might burn the chick's crop.

Another feeding method you could try, is the "baggie method". Here are some pictures here: http://community.webshots.com/album/102109969uMjJeJ

I'm not sure about the hard spot on his chest you're describing, and I can only see the bald spot on his chest.

Hope this helps,

[pdpbison]

Hi kmey006,



What a little cutie...!


Well...I can tell you what I do and it has always worked splendidly -

To start of, have some tepid Water in-a-cup or something handy, and moisten your finger tips of one hand in it, and...gently massage the youngster's Beak with your warm, moist, finger tips...while you vocally say 'OooooOOoooo! - ooooOOOooo!' so as to suggest something happy and bright and up-beat with the tone...make it a 'low' voice if you can, a Baritone even, and say if fairly slowly.

This, if done approximately right, will convey to the little one that you are interested in feeding him, and, in terms he will understand instantly.


Food for Pigeons of this age is an emotional and visceral matter, and they never 'see' food or peck at anything in nature untill they are flying with their parents to graze or forrage, so, for now, food for them is a matter of something which happens between them and someone else whom they trust...and not something they understand as occuring objectively as an item to be eaten.

If he accepts ( and he almost certainly will, but, you might have to try it more than once since you are new to it,) he will 'nuzzle' with his Beak, and likely flap his Wings a little tentatively, and maybe also 'peep' or 'squeak' some several tentative sounds...

If that has occurred, then...

Get a regular plain old fashioned soft rubber people-baby-feeding-nipple, the kind that goes onto a Baby-Bottle, but you are not going to use anything but the 'Nipple' itself, and, you will use the 'Hollow' side of it.

Baby or youngster Pigeons eat by inserting their Beak into the throat of the Parent, who brings up food for them...so, the Nipple hollow-side works very nicely for them to have their nuzzleing beak directed into for them to eat, and, of course, one re-fills the Nipple however many times seems right for any given meal-time.

You may see some images of this method in-action if you like by refering to the thread

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=13821

The thread also contains the following link to some images so you could also refer to them directly -

http://community.webshots.com/album/547324376ZDjOCU




Powdered formula should be mixed with water in a Cup, in a pan of hot Water, so it may be served at what would be about your own 'wrist' temperature and no warmer and not much cooler than that. do not microwave the formula to heat it, as that can make for hot spots which will harm them badly.


Mere 'formula' for a youngster of this age is less desireable than a mix of formula and very small whole Seeds, such as Finch seed or Canary seed...

I usually begiun to introduce such small whole seeds by the time a little one is ten days old, and also I tend to make a semi coarse Seed flower or Seed-Meal in a regular kitchen Blender, and to use about 1/3rd of that for formula mixing also.

So, in other words, for one of this age, I would be useing one third powder formula, one third small whole Seeds, and one third Seed-Meal while adding also some other suppliments.


Give this a try, and let us know how things are going...

Hold the Nipple at about mid-Crop level, tilted a little toward him, and direct his Beak into it while having your finger tips of your spare hand gently "on" his beak sides the first few times...after which he will merely dive into the Nipple readily and all you have to do then is sort of hold him gently from the keel ( his chest, since you do not want to restrain him by putting any pressure on hid Crop) with your spare hand, while holding the Nipple in the other...


The images the link goes to will likely clearify some of this...

Best wishes!

Bon-appitite!


Phil
Las Vegas

[pdpbison]

Hi kmey006,

...if the 'lump' is of a somewhat central vertical aspect, narrow, and high-ish, it is his neck vertebrae...which when their neck is contracted will occupy the top front above his Crop area if one feels there...

Otherwise, if it is in fact a 'lump' it could be either an abcess or a foreign object in the Crop...so...see if you can gently investigate further on that to see...


Looks like a happy little Squeaker...

He will really get excited and active and assertive, once you two arrive at the 'Secret Masonic Handshakes' of 'feeding'...


Lol...

Phil
Las Vegas

[pdpbison]

P.S.

The 'Nipple' shown in the images...I have taken Scizzors and cut off it's otherwise mounting flange, since it is not needed for this kind of use...so, doing so makes for a somewhat more compact and tidy Nipple which does not have a flange that will be pressing into their throat when they eat from it...

The average Nipples I seem to get hold about 7 millilitres therabouts when 7/8ths full...and, one does well not to fill them to the brim since their Beak will just make that overage spill out.

So, for a youngster 'Squeaker' such as yours, they would eat four or five such Nipple's full to-a-meal...and, have maybe five or six or seven such meals-a-day, depending on their metabolism and activity and warmth provided for them.

One needs to see how their Crop empties, and, usually it will empty in about three hours or so when all is well and they are warm and comfortable and relaxed and so on.

If their Crop is not mostly empty, then of course feed less for that meal or wait a while longer to feed.

Food-formula must be at about your own body temperature or they will soon reject it no matter how tasty it is...

Formula is best being about the consistancy of a Milkshake...and not 'thick' by any means...


Phil
Las Vegas

[Pete Jasinski]

Hi Kim, I hope you don't mind that I shrunk down Pushkin's first pic a bit to make him a bit more viewable. He certianly is a lil cutie I hope all goes well with his feedings.

[kmey006]

Thanks, all of you, for your advice! To think I'd gone so long in this world without knowing about pigeons at all! I will do my best with young pushkin the pigeon and hopefully he will grow up big and strong.

Pete, that's fine about making the picture more manageable. I am a bit of a technophobe unfortunately.

Kim