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Baby Dove has hard CropHi all...
Anyway, lovely little Dove, all quills...still has her little 'white' Egg Tooth... Crop hard-as-a-rock. I have had her maybe three hours now or something...she spent who knows how much of the day on the ground somewhere where supposedly her Nest is up in a Tree and way out on a high branch. So far so good...many small sipping sessions of Water with a little Salt and Sugar in it, and, so far, made two poops with some clear water dumping in them. Crop was distended, tender and hard when I recieved her, and remains hard now if less tender. I have been starting to very VERY gently massage it, but initialy the poor little thing did not want me touching it at all with reactions of pain if I did...so, I just did little Water sipping sessions and hand-nest. She is very comfortable in hand-nest and fine with being picked up and so on, just her Crop is tender. Any ideas on what else I should do? If I can, I will get her back in that nest once I am satisfied she is alright. The people who brought her did not think it would be possible because of the height and the slender branch it is on...so...dunno if I will be able to. Images may be seen via - http://community.webshots.com/album/390805705EfkOSC Fennel Tea? Phil el vegas Last edited by pdpbison; 9th July 2005 at 09:24 PM. 
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Hi Phil,
I think keeping the baby warm, giving water, and gently massaging is the right approach for now. That baby truly is/was full as a little tick! I know we all often see the "hard crop syndrome" in babies once they truly discover seeds, and it is important to assure that they are also getting fluids and passing the mass of seeds on through their system in a normal manner. I think you've got it handled and bless you for doing so! Terry
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Hi Terry...!
Thank you...yea...I am thinking this one's parents must have stuffed it to the gills with really tiny Grass Seeds or something, where I can not feel any texture like one tends to be able to do with Pigeon Babys...and that likely it got enough water earlier for the Seeds to hydrate, then...everything kinda stopped there with no real egress of them to their gizzard, maybe, from the fall or something. Such a delicate little cutie! I think I will do some Fennel Tea...and very easy massages... She sure likes that Hand-Nest...and will really climb to get into it too, then is very comfy. I think with many Babys who came from Tree Nests, the small or medium motions of being in Hand Nest are familiar, where, those from static ledges and so on, get a little vetigo if you are carrying them about or kind of moveing as one would do, and so on...Lol... Phil l v
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Phil,
What a sweet baby. Think about replacing her in the nest, before you do it. Why did she end up out of the nest in the first place? Can you safely replace her, and if she falls out of the nest again, will she be as lucky the next time it happens? I know what I'd do, check out the situation thoroughly, and if I didn't think returning her would have good outcome, she'd be a guest at my house til she was ready to move on. Daryl
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Hi Daryl,
Yea, good mentions... I just like to find out when I can... The people who found her felt the Nest was way high and on a slender long limb anyway. No idea why the Baby might have fallen out or been expelled. Poops from over-night, are many! -and tiny, and good looking thankfully... Crop is still pretty much the same presently, 1:20 p.m. now...like an acorn or something in there...damn... Could this be something other than her Crop's hardened contents? a tumor or something? Baby is bright and interested in being fed...I do not want to feed untill that Crop softens and empties, so...maybe some very thin Soups... I had set her in some soft cloths on a heating pad for the night, and covered her in some rumple of the soft cloth. She seemed to like that, she likes being covered. If I have my hand near, she either tries to climb in it, or under it. She really likes it if I cup my hand over her...or around and over, in hand-nest... --- p.s. Left this in edit-mode, and checked on her, and she was making signs of wishing to be fed... So...I made a little batch of some quite 'thin' soup...Fennel Tea, some Lorribush 'squab-powder-baby-formula', some 'Nekton' vitamines and minerals, and a dab of pro-biotics... I fill the hollow side of the Baby Nipple with the tepid liquid...and all of a sudden I have an assertive, miniature 'Squeaker' on my hands here..! Her HEAD will fit inside the nipple for crying out loud! she is to tiny... So I offer the nipple, and low and behold, guide her little nuzzleing all over the place slender Beak into a small area for her Beak to go in, that I have two finger tips next to...and...she is sipping...and...I kinds let her get her head more into it a little and...she drinks the whole thing! Maybe there is one drop left in it, and that's all... Yeeeeeeesh! I was expecting a few little sips merely... She wants more, is getting all wound up now...but I will wait a little while and see about some very gentle Crop massages...I want to see that Crop soften and start emptying more...so...golly... What a charmer... Phil las vegas Last edited by pdpbison; 10th July 2005 at 01:41 PM.
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Well, Phil,
I just don't want either of you having a bad case of "Fall Down- Go Boom" Too many little'uns rely on you, and none of us can come take care of you if you end up in a cast, and cranky besides  Your new baby is precious. My two in house handfeeding babies are doing super, the two in-be-tween kids in the loft are driving their parents crazy, begging for food, and Speck and her mate just hatched out two babies this morning. The only way I know was by finding those little empty eggshells shoved to the side of the nest box. The button quail go nuts when they get the eggshells, funny looking to see a butt-butt with half an eggshell flipped up over it's head, looking like a little helmet. I have a gazillion butt-butt eggs in the bator, if they all hatch, I just don't know what I'll do. Guess they'll have to go on a long hike and go visit Uncle Brad up in Canada. The 14 chicks we hatched out not too long ago are growing like weeds. I have to put them in my big lobster pot when I clean their brooder. What was that old saying about a chicken in every pot. Well, I have 14 of the little buggers. They are a riot, running, sparring, scratching one minute, then the next time you look, they are flat out and sleeping, all tumbled together. Well, everyone fed, settled, dishes washed and put away. Headed to bed to watch the rest of the nascar race with the old feller, then sleep. Husband up at 11 p.m. tonite, and on theroad. Me up at 4 a.m. and off to work. Love to all, Daryl
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Update -
The lump-in-her-Crop is about half gone, seeming to be diminishing from it's back side...Yea!!!! Was...as if she had an Acorn in there minus it's top...really odd, what the heck had she eaten???? Been fed I mean? Anyway, many delicate light massages, as initially anyway, she reacted as if it were quite painful and tender, and, since, less so, so that now I can do more massage without her protesting or cringing. Still way too firm, but seems flat on the back now and of course a lot smaller overall. Been feeding quite thin Soups, of a little Lorribush Squab Powder, "Nutrical", some pro-biotics, and a little "Nekton" Bird Vitamines and Mineral combo. She is a little fussy on what she will eat, and some of my offerings were not found pleasing I guess ( I thought they were delicious!) ...this combo she seems to like...so... Wish her luck! She is a sweet and elegant, poised and gently enthusiastic little squablette...and so tiny! Phil las vegas Last edited by pdpbison; 11th July 2005 at 03:05 PM.
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Thank you for the update.
Sounds like she is improving. I think she'll be fine. Reti
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Thanks Reti,
...enthusiastic appetite this morning...put away twp nipple fulls of thinish 'Soup'...if I make it thicker, she does not like it...so...she wants more but gee-whiz, that is kind of a small Crop! So...I will wait a while...Lol... She is doing the little Wing Pumping now, and more assertive nuzzleing. Crop is still a little odd, than goodness the hardness is gone now, but it still is not done with emptying whatever it was which is now semi-firm merely...and smaller... I just measured the volume of the Nipple - 5 mL...so, her initial Breakfast was 10 mL... She herself ( now, after Breakfast that is ! ) weighs...30 grammes. 10 mL of thin Soup weights...something onto 3 grammes... So, she'd have been around 17 g. before breakfast... Phil Las Vegas Last edited by pdpbison; 12th July 2005 at 12:57 PM.
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Oh boy....
I do not know what this is... It went away then came back...like an 'Acorn' in there in her Crop... Is this an Abcess? Would not an Abcess have an unpleasant odor if it opens? Has it instead of opening, stretched her Crop to where now it is tearing? Todays light feedings, the Liquid filled her Crop UNDER the 'acorn' size hard lump, while the small Seeds fed seperate, filled the smaller space ABOVE the lump...filing her neck slightly when I noticed, so I discontinued any feed since and let her have some Water now and then... Then, late in the day, I see a moist area on the side of the lump near it's top...then I see a few wet small Seeds there, I look, her Crop area has a little split and small Seeds and liquid are comeing out there...no odor...but now, as of 11:12 P.M. a hole has opened up about 3/16ths of an inch across...I have not done any massage today but for some very light massage below it this morning... I am not at all sure what to do! She is active HUNGRY and marching and nuzzleing assertively and wing-flapping TO be fed, and I dare not feed her, now...disposition is good, not droopy or anything...active and perky and doing her Dove Baby wing flaps and "Feed me please!" things... I have a 2:30 Appointment tomorrow with the Avian Vet I have not met yet who seems like he may a cool fellow... Maybe the one I gave the Kestrel to could fit me in earlier...I will set my alarm and call first thing tomorrow...and see... Anyone ever seen anything like this? I sure never have... Thank goodness she has been so happy and perky and so on...I am really worried on this thing. No blood, but the little Seeds I fed her earlier today and liquid...comeing out of the hole... Any ideas? Phil & Dove Baby, Las Vegas
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Hi Phil,
I don't have any suggestions in regards to this acorn size lump in her crop but I'm a little concerned about how much you're feeding her. You mentioned giving 10ml for her breakfast and you said her "before breakfast" weight was 17grams. That seems like an awful lot of formula for such a tiny little dove chick.
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Hi Brad,
She wanted it! Ate two nipple's full of thin 'Soup', so I let her have it. She just buried her little head right down into the Nipple. It did not fill her up either, but sat comfortably at the base of her Crop...down low, under the mystery lump. They can and will do it, for sure, even at this size. Really, if there was no lump there in the mid section of her crop, she could handle a lot more just fine. Maybe this is a regional thing...was likely 117 - or so I heard - out today, 104 inside these rooms most likely...and they all drink a lot at breakfast...30mL or 40 mL for a youngish Pigeon her age, would not surprise me. They have pretty big Crops. I would not 'feed' that much in the sense of me putting it down there for one so small, but she wanted a second helping, so I let her have one. She had room to spare, no problem...mostly Water with some other things dissolved into it. Other meals, she tended to put away one Nipple full usually ( about 5 mL) ...sometimes one and a half. If it was not for that lump-thing, she'd hold 20 mL easy...their wild dove parents really stuff them usually, much more than I would dare...same with the Wild Pigeon parents who REALLY stuff them in fact. I have seen wild babys so full they walk leaning way forward with their Crops almost dragging from the weight...I have had many Nest-Fallen ones that way, way WAY stuffed with Seeds and Water. Kinda funny...I never do that though...I will let them feed to about half that, tops. Anyway, she handled the 10 mL just fine with no distention or discomfort and soon wanted more, but I waited a while and then only small feeds after, some tiny whole Seeds nuzzled from between paralell finger tips, and a few 2 mL sipping sessions...after that, I saw there was a new problem and layed off any more feeds at all, but for a couple little Water sippings of not much. She is HUNGRY now! Ran over here onto the keyboard nuzzleing my fingers...I dare not feed her at all now so I put her into her sleeping Cage... Otherwise, she is active, wishing to be fed, assertively nuzzleing and Wing flapping and so on...every inch a happy little Squeaker-ette. Wish us luck for tomorrow...! Phil las vegas
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Phil
could the lump be canker? A few month ago I had a pigeon with a lump above the crop area, I started her on flagyl and spartrix right away, the lump went down, but a week later she had a hole in her crop, everything I fed her came out of the hole. I took her to the vet hours after I saw the hole and he took her to the OR right away. He called me in during the surgery to show me what had happened. The canker had destroyed her esophagus and part of her crop, all she had was necrotic tissue. While I was feeding her during the past day (before the hole on the exterior appeared) was going into the abdominal cavity, not into the crop. That's why she was loosing weight, even though I was feeding her. There was no tissue left to be sawn together to repair the esophagus and crop and the poor thing had to be PTS. I am not saying that was your bird has, but it is posible that the "acorn" lump is canker, which we see quite often. Good luck at the vets, hope it is not too bad. Reti
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Oh, Phil,
My thoughts and prayers to you and that baby dove you have given us all the opportunity to come to knoa and love. Is there any way you can get her in to vet today? Sure sounds like something that shouldn't wait. Love, Daryl
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Hi Reti,
Ohhhhh...I wondered about this too...on the side of my thoughts. I started her on 'Ronidazole' a few days ago. She did not like the taste of it being in her Water or food so I added a little Lorribush Nictivore powder and tried to balance out the flavors. I tasted the Water with the Ronidazole in it and I could see her point. Well...maybe that is it... Good mention, I appreciate it. I have never seen anything like this before, I thought at first it was just a slow-cro0p from bruising from a Nest fall...and that her Crop was shrunk from bruising maybe, seeming to be smallish. In retrospect ( and sadly, this is maybe how I tend to learn anyway, s-l-o-w-l-y sometimes, and in review...) if it had been a wad of little seeds and gluten and so on, it should have been sitting lower. for which reason I was wondering if it was a tumor of some kind, or, maybe, an abcess. being so 'hard' made no sense to me. I did not really notice how her Crop had capacity 'lower' untill she put away the two-nipple fulls of thin Soup for her breakfast yesterday, when I saw then, how it sat below the lump and kinda added some easy filling of that area of her Crop. Well...we shall see... She sure is one beautiful little Dove, active and bright. I sure hope this can work out for her. Phil Las Vegas
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| avian vet, baby bird, baby dove, heating pad, pigeon parents, wild dove, wild pigeon |
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