Baby dove- where to from here?

[pdpbison]

Hi bystander,



Her left Wing seems to show some broken-off and missing Primary Feathers.


Look cosely at this where these feathers would be growing from, the skin and flesh there of her 'arm', and see if there is any sign of injury there...and little scabs or tiny 'bites' or anything.


Anyway, I am thinking the Beak will be fine...likely has some swelling for the time being on one side of the actual Jaw Hinge...and in a few days will be back in align on it's own...but mean-time do be EXTRA sensitive and gentle with that Beak so it's healing can proceed without further strains or troubles.


If she is willing to eat from the ( trimmed off flange version as shown in the images of ) 'Nip ple' or 'Teat' it will have to taste good to her, or she will merely shake her head and refuse it.


Try this - moisten your finger tips in warm water making sure your finger tips themselves are 'warm', and very softly massage her Beak at it's base area, on the sides of it there betwden the pads of your thumb and index finger...and, if she pushes into your fingers with it, even tentatively, then I think there is a good chance she will eat form the Nip ple.


Are there any Health Food Stores or Pet Supply Stores near you?


Phil
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[BirdDogg10]

Aw, how cute, she's probably a spotted dove, they're cousins to mourning doves but larger. Adults have black patches with small white spots on the back of their necks.

[pdpbison]

...and or, get some very small Seeds ( which you need to do regardless) and review these images as for having her in a mode where she will be ( learning to be ) pecking...


http://public.fotki.com/PhilBphil/young-dove---july-1/


http://public.fotki.com/PhilBphil/december-1st-dove/


http://public.fotki.com/PhilBphil/lap-towell


Have her in 'Towell Cave' on your lap, just at liesure and so she can doze or day dream as well, so as to encourage her to eat...so there is only an opening for her Head to look out of...and, immediately in front of her have some small dish of Seeds or loose Seeds, and 'peck' at them with your crook'd index finger, and see if she can start getting the knack...lon your Lap, your hand lightly over her even...over the towell she is covered by...

If their attention can be restricted to the immediate Seeds only, the Towell being a sort of 'Blinders', it sometimes helps, as well as that 'pecking' with them forms a sort of continuity from being a dependant eater, used to being fed, to progress to having someone pecking intimately with her...


You want to be seeing ohhhhhhh..35 or 40 poops in every 24 hours...


If you gather up that many, into one volume, then such is roughly the volume, minus liquid, which she would be eating in-a-day, ideally...


Phil
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[bystander]

Thanks everyone

She's been spending the day snoozing on the sun propped up on my knee and preening so she must be feeling better. Pooping once every half hour or so, which would be about normal?

She seems to have a hard time keeping warm herself even quite close to the heater, and only really perks up with direct body heat or sunlight. Is that a normal baby thing? Right now she's quite happy hiding in my shirt lol. Even wrapped up in her towel, she gets cold, or at least she feels cool to me.

I tried the nipple method with the top of an eye dropper and she shook her head and sprayed food everywhere so it mustn't taste very nice to her (don't know why, I've tried it and I quite like it lol). She's free to peck at millet when she likes but hasn't shown much interest, I'll try some more though. It might be worth mixing some into her formula?

Some of her flight feathers had been bent on that wing so I trimmed to where they were straight, and figured that was probably good anyway because she'd have a hard time flying into windows etc with one wing trimmed in case she wasn't too scarred from her first experience to try again lol! No injuries luckily, and watching her preen she seems to have full movement of both wings.

She can peck, but hasn't quite mastered opening her mouth at the right time to let anything in yet so just stabs, and other times she misses.

I'm glad she should grow bigger, too. Now at least I'll know if she's not growing, she should be.

There's a pet supply just up the road from me (should still be open). Should I just get normal rearing mix? Or insectivore as well? Hopefully that will be more palatable to her.

So is the extra on her bottom bill (not sure of the terminology) a 'milk tooth'? So she'll lose that?

[pdpbison]

Hi bystander,



Just figure to support her learning to peck for now, I think it wil be easiest on you both..! And, will pay off well very soon, too...


Do see my links a few posts back, showing 'Towell Cave' since this is a very nice way of having them comfy while ill, and while learning to peck.

Poops every half hour sound ideal to me.


Let us know on the Urates, the 'white' part, if it is at all tinged 'yellow' or is pure unambiguous 'white'...describe the poos thoroughly, as I think she is sick, and it might help us figure out some clues as for what-with.


Upper Beak should be minutely longer than the lower one, or, they should be about even...

Lower Beak may be protruding from swelling in the Jaw...and their Jaw hinge is farther down than one would suppose at a casual glance...


So, revies the images in the links a few posts back, get some small whole Seeds rounded up, and try some liesured 'Lap Towell Cave' sessions, 'pecking' gently with her with your crook'd index finger, right in front of her nose, so to speak...and you can son tell us about how well she is putting away those Seeds and stuffing herself silly...!


Best wishes..!


Phil
l v

[bystander]

Yep, white is white. Actual poop is soft and firm but moist, just looks like what's going into her but firmer and a different colour? *shrugs* A browny-green colour. I tried to get pictures but they're not turning out, camera doesn't like focusing on things so small and flash just makes it worse.

Will try pecking lessons when she wakes up.

[pdpbison]

Hi bystander,


Good to hear...


But I still can not tell if you saw the links a few posts back.


Can make a big difference having themin your pal, on a towell, and covered but for their face...when they are A: Injured/ill or both and, learning to peck...


Good luck..!


Phil
L v

[bystander]

Sorry guys, have been away for a week without net access.

Baby is flourishing Looks like she's grown up a lot and enjoys her cuddles and time in the sun and has started attempting to fly again from her cage to my head- not that it always ends well for her lol!

I've been feeding her all this time, but I think she might be old enough now to learn on her own so that will be this week's adventure. I've seen her peck at seed but she gives up quite soon so I think it's just a matter of time and we'll have some lessons on my lap in front of the telly I think.

Thanks everyone for all your help and I'll keep you all updated!

[Reti]

Thank you for the update and do keep us posted on her progress.
Sounds like she will eat on her own pretty soon. Great job.

Reti

[bystander]

Thought I would update again

I think she's well and truly bonded to me now, will follow me around and if I squeak she squeaks back- I don't know how normal that is though?

She's gotten a lot braver too and likes to go for little explorations but will go too far, run back and sit on my foot for a ride, too cute.

I'll try and get some photos up later but she still looks quite small to me. She's definitely grown, but not a lot. I don't know how big she's supposed to grow though so I might be worrying for no reason. She's definitely a lot heavier and has more substance though.

Her beak's slowly fixing itself up. Now both top and bottom meet, but she still has a bit of an underbite so the middle of her beak doesn't quite meet.

I *know* logically she should be eating on her own by now but she's just not very good at it so I'm giving her a morning and evening feed just to be sure she at least gets something substantial in between her little attempts. Whenever I put seed in front of her and peck she just sticks her head in it and tosses it from side to side and sprays it everywhere lol! At the moment her morning feed seems to last for seven or eight hours anyway.

She has finch and canary seed to choose from, they should be small enough for her to handle but she's really not very interested.

Should I keep doing what I'm doing or just cold-turkey it?

Thanks again to everyone for their most awesome advice so far

[pdpbison]

Originally Posted by bystander

Thought I would update again

I think she's well and truly bonded to me now, will follow me around and if I squeak she squeaks back- I don't know how normal that is though?

Hi bystander,


This is normal...when they have accepted you as surrogate parent...and, it is normal when it fades, or changes into stages of independance, as they grow into their post fledgling stages...when they will intimate signs of testing independance...by degrees or sometimes pretty full blown.

If their testing their independance is respected, they become independant emotionally, and, if socialized to other wild or feral Birds also with some forays and grazing times among them, they will tend to manage fine if released to those others, ideally, the same others at the same location, with whom they have had supervised by you times of getting to graze with them, pecking at Seeds scatered on the ground and so on.


Otherwise, if the sometimes delicate independance testings are overpowered by the care giver's not understanding it, or, delayed or side tracked by other exigency or compromise, the Pigeon or Dove may be unprepared for anything but a domestic life, or, their socialization unto wild or feral others, will rekindle their innate urges to be away from whoever raised them, as the rule of Nature tends to have it...or, they will be able and interested to fly out of doors, and, come back, considering the place of their upbringing, to be 'home'.

It can go various ways...

She's gotten a lot braver too and likes to go for little explorations but will go too far, run back and sit on my foot for a ride, too cute.

See above...

Likely, she is wanting you to go with her, and, to watch over her as she explores, or, even for you to take her to explore new things, contiguous places, and so on...or for you to show her places to graze and find Seeds and so on.


This is the time then for her to have you supervise outdoor occasions of her getting to graze and peck with the wild or feral others...or, just with you, and if anyone else joins in, fine...if not, at least you both have fun anyway.


If she is definitely not-releaseable, oweing to handicap or disablement, then such outings would still be very benificial to her, so long as she does not fly away by accident, into a World she is not physically up to living in as a wild or feral Bird...or where she might get lost or confused about how to get back, if she flew too far to see it directly.

I'll try and get some photos up later but she still looks quite small to me.

They ( 'Doves' ) are rather small even when of an age to be on their own...and, they continue to grow for quite a while, if slowly.

She's definitely grown, but not a lot. I don't know how big she's supposed to grow though so I might be worrying for no reason. She's definitely a lot heavier and has more substance though.

Her beak's slowly fixing itself up. Now both top and bottom meet, but she still has a bit of an underbite so the middle of her beak doesn't quite meet.

Images would be good for us to see what this looks like...

I *know* logically she should be eating on her own by now but she's just not very good at it so I'm giving her a morning and evening feed just to be sure she at least gets something substantial in between her little attempts.

Sounds good...


Have you had her in 'Lap Towell Cave', and or 'pecked' with her into a small, deep little Glass or Cup, like a Shot Glass, full of small whole Seeds?

Whenever I put seed in front of her and peck she just sticks her head in it and tosses it from side to side and sprays it everywhere lol! At the moment her morning feed seems to last for seven or eight hours anyway.

You might be able to steady her Head or Beak, gently, so she gets better at pecking 'straight' in, or, possibly, she does not like the Seeds she sees and wishes them out of the way, hoping there wil be other kinds beneath them...then again, maybe she is frustrated with how her Beak is not 'right', and the fine co-ordinations for Pecking are not managing the Beak she has right now...the whole 'pecking' thing for them is really a very fine co-ordinated series of lighteninf fast things which all have to work together, or, it does not work well at all...so, she might be a little frustrated with it.


Is there any Seed kind you have seen her seem to like, or, prefer?


Or, what kinds of Seeds have you been trying?

She has finch and canary seed to choose from, they should be small enough for her to handle but she's really not very interested.

Those should be good choices...maybe, if you can find some, add Rape Seeds, Niger Seeds, and, White Safflower...and Milo...at least the Doves here seem to like those, as well as the Millet and Canary Seed...

Should I keep doing what I'm doing or just cold-turkey it?

Thanks again to everyone for their most awesome advice so far

I'd say keep doing what you are doing...


I did not read your post first, I just clicked 'quote' and started replying, so it ended up having a sort of amusing cadence and way about it, where, whatever I would ask, you would answer in your next paragraph...


Lol...


Usually, at least the Doves I have raised, they became FIERCELY independant once of an age about when they would have elected to depart from their Dove Parents...with rarely an exception...but yours, having some injurys to get over, likely is suspending that phase, or, may pass it bye, without it really occuring.


Does she have a free rove of the House or a room? What is her flying status so far?


Best wishes!


Phil
l v

[bystander]

I'm glad everything seems to be normal.

She tries to eat, but can only manage to pick the seeds up and drop them again, probably due to her beak and after a few failures she starts tossing it around, most likely out of frustration. If the eating doesn't improve in a week or so I'll see what the avian vet thinks. Even wrapped up in my lap it goes like this. It's like she knows what to do, but her body won't let her.

It's summer here and there are a lot of flies, and if I swat one she tries to eat it but, again, it doesn't go too well for her and she ends up tossing it a fair way away.

She has a small cage that she's put in when I go out until I think she's ready for the bigger one, the rest of the time she sits on a very cool portable perch I made her out of a fallen branch There's a shot glass full of seed and a shot glass filled with water tied to it. Every now and then we go roaming.

Fluffypants (my pigeon) has a Feather Tether that I take her out in but they don't have one small enough for the baby and there are a lot of dogs and cats around where I am, and I'm along a main road too so I rarely take her outside, don't want to risk it as I think it's too dangerous. Sometimes when I take her out with me she can have a wander though but doen't go too far.

She can flutter a fair way but isn't really inclined to. If she's startled by something she can make it over to me though, and can fly up onto perches, couches etc but mostly just sits and preens or walks around. Once she made it to the curtain rod and was quite unsure of what to do next lol. After that incident I had to trim her flight feathers a little (middle of summer and no a/c so windows stay open and four big dogs in the yard) but she still manages everything except long distance. Oh, and she's figured out stairs lol! She'll hop/flutter up about three then climb on my foot for a free ride

[pdpbison]

Hi bystander...



Ahhhhh...sounds pretty good then all tolled...


The whole 'eating-pecking' thing can sometimes take a while, a long while even, when injury or neurological injury also, have impaired the subtle reflexes and finesse of it.


"Seed Poops" of course are good in these cases, have you done much of that?


Anyway, no 'Flies' for her...do not let her have any ! Very bad...too much 'wrong' Bacteria possible...could make her sick or do her in...


Phil
l v

[bystander]

What are seed poops?

[pdpbison]

Hi bystander,


That is the term somehow acquired for the act or deed of gently opening their Beak, and, putting a Seed or two in, for them to swallow.

Larger Mouths usually allow one to sort of set or get the Seed far back, where they will swallow it instantly.


Usually, one has the Dove or Pigeon gently wrapped in a small soft Towell, with extra Towell past their Tail end, like a 'Burrito', and, my own method anyway, is to spigot them just behind my knees as I sit, so the wrapped Bird is about straight 'up', and holding them in effect by the extra Towell which continued past their Tail, with maybe their Tail in there too between my knees. This leaves both Hands free, and is easy on them, too.


Anyway, some Birds more than others take to this, like it, appreciate it, and very soon do not resist at all for one's opening their Beak, and some will even 'gape', opening their Beak for you to put the Seed into.


Your Dove is rather small of course, and, her Beak is delicate and slender...so, you would wish to be especially gentle in how you open it...making sure not to effect any sideways pressures top or bottom.

Possibly, if you softly massage the root area of her Beak, she will understand that you wish to feed her, and, will resist less, or will try and co-operate.


They can have "BEAKS OF IRON" when they want to..!


The 'Seed Pop' method is very good for when we may have a Dove or Pigeon whose digestive system is fine to handle Seeds, but, because of some neurological or physical impediment, they are not able to peck effectively to get very many on their own.


Try softly massaging the root area of her beak, where the corners of her mouth are, and, see if she sort of moves her Beak open and closed a tiny bit making a sort of little "yummaummayumma' gesture...and if so, you can try keeping your finger tips on the sides of her Beak while guiding it into her Shot Glass of whole, tiny Seeds, seeing if she may elect to 'gobble' like a Baby would...gotta keep your finger tips on the sides of her Beak though for her to do it, if she will do it...and if so, that would be a very nice thing for you both, and, a way for her to stuff herself silly in no time, with your help.


If that does not work, with at least a few honest trys, then, 'Seed Pop' might be a good recourse for getting whole Seeds into her...either five or six tiny Seeds, or one or two larger ones, at-a-time...repeated ohhhhhh, fifty times to a sitting, if you both can stand it, or, less if it seems tedious or trying her patience.

Thats the drill..!

Best wishes!


Phil
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