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Airspeed Airspeed is offline
Posted 10th April 2011, 11:38 AM
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 26
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Originally Posted by spirit wings View Post
here is a link to what I think you may have.. I do think they can be kept in cages as pets , just like the ringneck domestic pet dove..esp because you have hand raised it and may not do well if released at this point..but they must be very hardy as they have spread in the US.. If they are not protected as a migratory bird then you can give him a good home, if you intercact with him every day as they are flock birds and like company and a mate.

http://www.diamonddove.info/bird11e%...red%20Dove.htm
Thaks for the link, I will read some more this afternoon. I am pretty sure he won't be releasable as his right wing was chewed on by a cat, the cat chewed right through the last joint in it's wing. There is a scab over the injury now but it was obvious that the bone had been exposed and broken. If he doesn't lose that part of his wing it looks like at best it will be fused at the joint and no longer be able to move. I don't think it could fly very well if at all. I am afraid if I release it, it wont be able to fly away and escape another attack. Who knows though, nature works wonders sometimes! I have been thinking of ways to test out his flying abilities when he heals up, I wouldn't try it until it's healed ofcourse. If anyone has suggestions on how this could be accomplished I would love to hear it. I don't want to just let it go and find out it can't fly, I wouldn't want it to hurt itself or get away and get attacked. Thanks! Aaron.


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Airspeed Airspeed is offline
Posted 10th April 2011, 11:44 AM
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 26
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Originally Posted by Dobato View Post
Arron, I agree that things sound like things are going along well and also that with the calmness this bird has so far exhibited, he should make a good candidate for transitioning form his former life, to a new life with humans.

Karyn
He is still very calm, when I cleaned his cage this morning, he just sat and waited, he let's me apply the meds to his wing and takes his antibiotic all by himself now, I just hold the syringe near his beak and he drinks it right up. He seems content. I am now starting to wonder if there's anything I can put in with him to keep him entertained? Thanks again! Aaron
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Dobato Dobato is offline
Posted 10th April 2011, 11:53 AM
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,445
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Originally Posted by Airspeed View Post
He is still very calm, when I cleaned his cage this morning, he just sat and waited, he let's me apply the meds to his wing and takes his antibiotic all by himself now, I just hold the syringe near his beak and he drinks it right up. He seems content. I am now starting to wonder if there's anything I can put in with him to keep him entertained? Thanks again! Aaron
Aaron, some people put small mirrors in with their lone birds to keep them company, but sometimes they can get a little excited with this. I would like to keep him this calm for the next 7-10 days and worry more then about entertaining him. They do get great pleasure in being in a place where they can see all the coming and goings in the house, so you could do that for now, like a nice vantage point in the family room or kitchen, usually the two busiest rooms in the house. If in the kitchen, remove him if anything you are going to cook produces any smoke at all and be aware that if you use non-stick cooking utensils (Teflon) that these produce fumes that are invisible with no odor that are fatal to birds if they breath them in, so remove as well when cooking with Teflon, to be safe.

Karyn

Last edited by Dobato; 13th April 2011 at 12:37 AM.
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Pidgey Pidgey is offline
Posted 10th April 2011, 06:38 PM
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Tulsa, OK
Age: 55
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Although what I saw in the picture looked nasty from a "non-debrided" point of view, I didn't see anything that particularly scared me as to the structure of the wing. That is, the carpometacarpus looks rather more intact than the descriptions. I'd more suspect that some of the primary flight feathers may be affected.

In any case, let's just wait and see what happens after the antibiotic therapy and healing get done. These birds (this species) don't do a half-bad job of getting completely spoiled in captivity. I totally appreciate that quality. If it turns out that Pecky (bless his heart) makes a full recovery and can fly just fine, it may be possible that he can return to the wild but he probably won't think much of it should that be the case.

Pidgey
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Airspeed Airspeed is offline
Posted 10th April 2011, 08:02 PM
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 26
Thanks pidgey, the pic is a little deceptive, when I first found him that last joint in the wing was literally hanging on by a piece of skin, when I brought him inside I repositioned the last section of the wing so it wouldn't be dangling, I put some neosporin on the area and sat him in a box. The bones were completely separated and I almost snipped that thin little piece of skin but decided to wait and see if he even survived, I didn't want to cause him any additional pain if he wasn't going to survive. The next morning it looked like the blood had simply hardened around the wound like a scab, I have been keeping it covered with neosporin along with all the other little cuts, he has several, they look like only the skin was torn, meaning it doesn't look like any of the tissue underneath has been punctured. The largest wound other than the wing is about 3/16 to 1/8th inch in diameter.
Today he started grooming his feathers for the first time and this evening he started grooming (preening?) the area around the wing injury, I noticed some very fine feathers sticking to his beak from the neosporin, he is able to get them off his beak using his foot. Should I be concerned if he ingests any of the neosporin? It doesnt appear that he is intentionally eating it or getting a lot in his mouth but I can tell some is.
He doesn't flail around or make any violent movements but this afternoon I noticed him stretching his wings, the uninjured wing fully extended but the injured wing only extended as far as the last joint, they both looked to extend and position symmetrically except the last joint on the injured wing, I take that as a sign the reast of his wing is in good shape.
He is acting very alert, watching me when I'm near his box, looking around, he really seems content. I am surprised how tame he has been acting, he doesnt move away or seem afraid of me at all, even eats out of my hand before I can set his seed down. I am pretty sure he's going to have a permanent Mohawk from the small wound on top of his head, his feathers stick straight up, my daughter calls him Mr T.
Thanks for the advice! Aaron
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Dobato Dobato is offline
Posted 10th April 2011, 11:33 PM
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 4,445
Well, we don't want him ingesting the Neosporin if it can be helped, just a little lighter coats, enough keep the area well coated, but not enough where he could get a blob of it in his mouth and just a apply an extra time or two a day, since you will applying less. If he get a bit on his beak, with some preen debris, just wipe it off with a Kleenex. I am really glad he is so friendly and calm, this will make things so much easier on him going forward. Most times scalp would heal in time so you will never know it was there, but Mr. T is a cute name .

Karyn
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Pidgey Pidgey is offline
Posted 11th April 2011, 06:13 AM
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Location: Tulsa, OK
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Yeah, I read that. Pictures are worth a thousand words:



The last functioning joint is between the red arrows.

Okay, take a few more pictures of him standing (side and top views) and hopefully one of him stretching.

Pidgey
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Dobato Dobato is offline
Posted 11th April 2011, 07:01 AM
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Pidgey, this is why we love you . Yes, of course, it's right there in the photo, the wrist joint certainly looks to be intact and the damage may just be in the skin webbing. I was wondering why you mentioned making a full recovery to flying again, now it is very obvious. I think I got caught up with the written description, that the tip was hanging by a thread, and did not do what you did, and should have done, looked more closely and studied the photo(s) better. Good eyes.

Good call early on, by Terry too, advising not to start snipping away at things, until we got a real good understanding just where this bird was at.

Karyn

Last edited by Dobato; 11th April 2011 at 09:10 AM.
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Pidgey Pidgey is offline
Posted 11th April 2011, 10:01 AM
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Location: Tulsa, OK
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Well, the webbing between the carpometacarpus section and the shoulder (attachment of the proximal humerus to the "front" of the ribcage) is actually from the bottom red arrow down. The portion that's actually affected seems to be where the primary flights leave the trailing edge of the carpometacarpus section. If those have been bitten off, then Pecky's obviously going to have a difficult time getting lift out of the wing without making some kind of special "glove" with correct primary flights attached.

Pidgey
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Pidgey Pidgey is offline
Posted 11th April 2011, 10:05 AM
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Location: Tulsa, OK
Age: 55
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This might better illustrate the portions of the carpometacarpus section that are possibly affected:



I don't have a picture of how the primary flights and supporting flesh overlays those bones, though... at least not in a digital file.

Actually, a photo taken above the wing with a person holding the wing out in extension might be the most helpful.

Pidgey
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Airspeed Airspeed is offline
Posted 16th April 2011, 04:56 PM
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 26
Hi, I thought I would give you an update on Pecky the wonder dove. He is doing great still, he is eating well and seems very content. I still have him in the same box, I have recently been looking for a larger cage for him, I found a couple that may work, one is three feet tall by two feet square, it has a lot of perches that he can climb on but I'm not sure if I should put him in it yet, his wing still hasn't healed all the way, I'm still not sure what's going to happen with the last section on his wing, I have been watching him when he stretches and that section does not move.
I noticed new feathers growing in all the places the cat had plucked, two days ago they were tiny little stubs, today they are about 3/4 of an inch long! It's amazing how fast they grow! I am still giving him the Septra, I give it to him one a day. He has also started standing up very straight, with his neck fully extended, he started that two days ago. He eats like crazy and drinks lots of water, his poop is completely solid with an occasional juicy one, I don't know if it's urine mixed in? Or what but it not as messy as it was at first. He goes about the same amount every day and now he does it in the same place in his box unlike before when he would go just about everywhere.
He doesn't smell at all, I do keep his cage clean though, I clean it twice a day. I thought I read somewhere that they are stinky but he doesn't stink at all. I am going to keep him at least until all his feathers are fully filled in then I will start looking for a good home for him, I have grown attached to him and have considered keeping him but I can't decide if I would get bored of him, I don't want to keep him only to grow tired of him and have him become a burden, that wouldn't be fair to him.
As soon as his feathers get a little more filled in I will post some updated pictures, he really does look better already though! Thanks again for all your help! If anyone has any suggestions on what type of cage I should look for, any special needs I should look for, let me know! Thanks again! Aaron
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Airspeed Airspeed is offline
Posted 16th April 2011, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pidgey View Post
This might better illustrate the portions of the carpometacarpus section that are possibly affected:



I don't have a picture of how the primary flights and supporting flesh overlays those bones, though... at least not in a digital file.

Actually, a photo taken above the wing with a person holding the wing out in extension might be the most helpful.

Pidgey
Thanks for posting that illustration! It helps me understand what's going on in his wing a lot better! I just cleaned his cage and medicated him for the day so I will try to get some new pics of his wing tomorrow, I dont want to put him through anymore right now. I will get some pics of his wing exstended and while he stretches. His wings seem very symmetrical as he stretches except the last section, it still has a big scab on the wound so I can't tell what's going on underneath. He has been grooming the area around the wound every day, removing small damaged feathers around it. He doesn't seem to be in any pain at all, even when I put on the neosporin, he is really mellow the entire time I handle him, almost as though he knows I'm helping him (at least that's what I want to believe!) I will take as detailed of pics as I can so maybe we can tell if he may fly again. Will there be any way I could test his flying ability without hurting him when the time comes? I would hate to let him go, see him struggle and not be able to catch him again, I can see him escaping only to get attacked again because he can't escape an animal! I have actually thought of attaching some kind of line to a leg but I don't want to end up breaking his leg at the same time! Thanks again! As I said I will get some good pics tomorrow! Aaron.
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Quazar Quazar is offline
Posted 16th April 2011, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Airspeed View Post
...... I have actually thought of attaching some kind of line to a leg but I don't want to end up breaking his leg at the same time! Thanks again! As I said I will get some good pics tomorrow! Aaron.
thats probably exactly what would happen, or his flight direction would be abruptly changed & he'd hit the ground, so a def no no.
If he is able to fly again, it would have to be indoors at first so theres definately no risk of him getting out of reach and you would be able to see just how good he was.

Glad to hear hes coming along well, sure pigdey will come up with some info if you can get those pics.

As for becoming bored with him if you keep him, I really doubt that very much, as they have a way of continually being interesting and inquisitive lol.
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Dobato Dobato is offline
Posted 16th April 2011, 05:30 PM
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Aaron, good to hear from you, I have been wondering how peck was getting along. Depending if the wound is still open, we are going to want to keep Pecky on antibiotics from 10-14 days, as do not want to risk infection setting into the wrist joint.

No, birds have very little smell associated with them, especially if it is a single bird and you keep things clean, and unless they are ill their droppings are not like many other small animals, that do have an odor to them.

As for keeping him, i don't see what the difference would be if you kept him a while and then decided if he was a burden, as if you do find you think he is, and could do better with someone else, that could be arranged later, the same as sooner.

For a cage you will want something with closer spaces bars and, for now something lower and wider, than taller. Here is link to a photo of a hamster cage, with small ladder for him to climb up and small platforms to perch on, something like this could work well (one a little bigger than this one would be nice), until we see in time how much use returns to the hurt wing. Try Craigslist, I have picked up a few small hospital cages there cheap, and at the time I did see some larger ones, like in the link.

http://www.petshoponline.ie/hamster-cage

I also wanted to mention that with how calm he is, and the way he has not frightened of you (a human) and especially the when you mentioned he starts to eat from your hand before you even set the food down (never heard of this in a wild adult Dove). There is a very good chance this was somebody's pet, part of why he got caught, he did not have the natural survival instincts a truly wild Dove would have. So even if he were to fully heal and the wing became 100%, I am not sure he should be released to the wild again.

You are doing a good job with him, and some new photos would be good,

Karyn

Last edited by Dobato; 16th April 2011 at 08:09 PM.
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Birdmom4ever Birdmom4ever is offline
Posted 18th April 2011, 10:19 AM
Join Date: Jan 2003
Country: United States
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I came to this thread late and you've already done a great job with this dove. Thank you so much for helping him! I just wanted to add that he's definitely a ring-neck dove and as they aren't native to the Americas you shouldn't feel any guilt for not being able to release him; they are considered domestic birds here. Though escaped ring-necks have established populations in North America, I don't believe they are considered a pest species.

Ring-necks make wonderful pets and can become quite attached to their owners. I have found them to be calm, friendly and curious. We have 21 of them, mostly rescues. Most live in a large aviary outside but one little (very tame) hen lives in our house in a cage because she considers herself a person, not a dove. We give her plenty of time outside her cage each day to play and interact with us and she's a happy, friendly and engaging pet.

From what you say of your dove, I suspect he wasn't a "wild" bird to start with but someone's escaped pet. An 18" x 24" cage is the minimum size for a ring-neck dove, with some daily play time outside the cage. If he's picky about seeds, try a good quality mix for pet finches: Volkman's is a favorite of my doves. Kaytee dove mix is good, too. Doves also need some grit, either pigeon grit or that sold for cage birds. They are particularly fond of greens. I give mine organic wheat grass and well-washed, organic romaine lettuce. Enjoy your little friend.
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