Greetings!

[Reti]

If he has no poops he is starving. Please feed him.

Reti

[Athalie]

I gave him some wholemeal bread soaked in water I don’t know what else I could give him. Supermarkets are not open the shop across the road doesn’t have that baby cereal. If I had something to feed him I would but if bread isn’t ok I don’t know what else to give him. I’ll try dog food soaked in water.

[cyro51]

Hi Athalie,

I checked and it is "Nutribird" but I think that you can only get it from Morley Aviaries by post. As he is old enough to fly he should be OK on Ready brek, I am feeding that to one of my own rescues and he is doing well. THat was recommended to me by Helen of wild-life-line in Blackburn who is a moderator of this forum.

Dove poops should ideally be firm, they dry into nice solid bits that you can sweep up.

Dip his beak regularly into the rehydrating solution. The correct proportions for that are 1 pint warm water, mixed with 1/2 tablespoon glucose, honey or sugar and 1/2 teaspoon of salt. Encourage him to drink as much as possible.

If you feed him wholemeal bread dipped in water then try to give him at least 1/2 a slice (with crusts removed) three times a day.

I have some antibiotics that I can send off to you tomorrow if necessary...please PM me if I can help.

You could take it to the Three Owls Sanctuary if it doesn't pull itself together, but I feel that sometimes a baby profits from the amount of attention that it receives from a single rescuer. We also have a wonderful member in Salford that could have a look at him, she would not be able to take him in as she has pigeon lung disease.

Cynthia

[pdpbison]

...have a towell on your Lap...


Set the Dove on the Towell, and cover her with a smaller towell so just her Head is almost visable...and so she is sort of tucked in at the sides.


Get a very small Glass, like a Shot Glass, and fill it with small, whole Seeds.


Hold the Glass low and in front of her, and, 'peck' at the Seeds with a crook'd index finger, while you other hand gently is laid on the towell which is covering her.


And, see if you can inspire her to be pecking.


She is old enough TO be doing so, or to be learning to do so.



You can gently tap the end of her Beak with a Seed also, showing it to her.


Try that...



See -


http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=24110


Along with the links it contains which will show some images



Phil
l v

[cyro51]

Wholemeal bread is OK, just as long as it isn't fresh as that will have a high yeast content. I have raised healthy babies on that dipped in Complan and the Gower Biird Hospital use it to hand raise baby wood pigeons.

I found Ready Brek among the cereals at the One Stop convenience store, not among the baby food. Soaked bran flakes or any other sugar free cereal would be fine too. London Wildcare use porridge oats soaked in warm water.

I don't know if puppy food might not be too rich for a collared dove, they don't have the varied diet of feral pigeons, they tend to stick to seeds.

Cynthia

[Athalie]

I think I solved the problem. I have some extra-fine cornmeal and some grits (very finely ground whole grain) I made him a runny porridge-like pap from it. I boiled them in the hydrating fluid and mixed a pinch of dog food pure in it as well. I also took apart a thick pen and poured the pap in there, he ate two pen-fulls, have no idea how many milliliters though He also drank a lot of the hydrating fluid, seems very lively and content now. I warmed up a gel pack in microwawe and put it under his fleece blanket. Ill keep giving him the hydrating mix. He is already pecking at my fingers.
Thank you for the help. I will let you know a bit later how he gets on

[pdpbison]

"Small...whole...Seeds"


Such as Finch Seed, Canary Seed


Balled 'Bread' will hydrate in the Crop, expand, and can too easily glog and block the passage to the Stomach and then there is a very serious problem to add to whatever else already is a problem.


Balled Bread is what Plumbers use to block Water from seeping into Copper Pipes they wish to solder...and, it will eventually dissolve in the Pipes, long after it would have killed a Bird. Since for one thing it will be subject to 140 pounds per suare inch Watewr Pressure once the Water is turned back on, and a Dove or other Bird does not have THAT kind of 'pressure' to shove it through.


"SMALL...whole...Seeds" should not be such a problem to obtain, especially as so many Grocers carry them in the 'pet' supply pet food isles.

I am confident this Dove will "peck' and begin to self feed, if only one were to bother gently working with them for a little while, and, in terms the Dove would find comfortable, and and with "SEEDS" which the Dove will understand.




...sigh...


Love,


Phil
l v

[pdpbison]

Originally Posted by Athalie

I think I solved the problem. I have some extra-fine cornmeal and some grits (very finely ground whole grain) I made him a runny porridge-like pap from it. I boiled them in the hydrating fluid and mixed a pinch of dog food pure in it as well. I also took apart a thick pen and poured the pap in there, he ate two pen-fulls, have no idea how many milliliters though He also drank a lot of the hydrating fluid, seems very lively and content now. I warmed up a gel pack in microwawe and put it under his fleece blanket. Ill keep giving him the hydrating mix. He is already pecking at my fingers.
Thank you for the help. I will let you know a bit later how he gets on

This is no good, for many reasons.


No 'cooked' food of any kind.

No 'meat' or meat derived things.

Just go to a Grocery Store, and get some Finch or Canary Seed.

DO NOT COOK IT...leave it alone.


Small, whole, clean,. simple, RAW Bird Seeds.


Absolutely NEVER microwave anything for any Bird.


You can not go making up a lot of things even with good intentions, if you want to save this Dove...you will kill it and reliably, trying to feed or force feed it stuff like that.

Things need to be 'right' or he is not going to last long enough for more experients like that.


"Seeds"...small, whole Seeds, like Finch Seed, Canary Seed.


Last call from me on this.


IF it is night time there and you really do have no other recourse, then -


LEAVE IT RAW AND DO NOT "COOK" IT, but...


Combine some Corn Meal and other RAW ground Grains but no 'flour'...( Grits are Corn Meal which has been treated with Lye, and would be redundant to add TO Corn Meal)

Add Water...stirr...let it sit a half hour...have it in a Tea Cup.

If you have any NON MEAT 'Dog Bisquits, or "GRAIN" based 'Kibble' ( DRY FOOD ) crush into a powder, and combine THAT with the Corn Meal...


Warm the Tea Cup in a Pan of hot water, and then see if she will eat it.


No "microwave"...use a Pan of Hot Water.

This would be JUST barely tolerable, but would be better than nothing.


Get some proper "Seeds" as soon as possible.



Best wishes...!


...sigh...


Phil
l v

[cyro51]

Excellent thinking!!!! A teaspoon is 5ml so you can use that for comparison, he should be fed until the crop is squishy like a 3/4 inflated balloon.

BTW bread soaked in water and balled bread are completely different things, but Les swears by balled bread which he rolls in vitamins or small seeds as required...I was under the impression that was something you had recommended to him, Phil. Fortunately digestive systems and plumbing are not very similar. I know that my sink can't cope with pigeon peas, specially when they become stuck and sprout but a pigeon is able to digest them.

Cynthia

[cyro51]

Phil, the microwave was used to warm a gel pack for the pigeon to lie on, not to eat. And the small shops that are allowed to be open at this time on a Sunday certainly don't stock canary or finch seed.

Cynthia

[pdpbison]

Hi Cynthia,



I have been brought too many dieing Babys which naive first timers fed all this kind of crap to as well as other things.


It breaks my heart.


Maybe 'Les' makes TINY soft lightly compressed 'bread balls', the sie of a Bee-Bee, and meanwhile, no one ever bothers saying to a first timer not to make them the size of Marbles, not to over-compress them, or whatever.


So sure, have 'Les' write a fifteen page treatise on how NOT to do it, and then maybe we will have something...something which no one will read anyway since it would be past their attention span.



No, never, ever have I recomended 'Bread' in any form.


Graham Crackers, Ritz Crackers, true Grain-Based Dog Bisquits or Kibbles, "Hot" types of Breakfast Cereal but which one would NOT 'Cook' for the Bird...

"Malto Meal"...( Plain, not chocolate )

Plain "Corn Meal"...

"Cream of Wheat"

These will do very well in a pinch...crushed into Powder if need be, added together, made into a thin gruel...served "tepid" and NOT "Microwaved".


And on their best day, they will have one fourth the "real" Nutrition of plain, wholesome, small, whole "Seeds".



Information MUST be detailed or else it will NOT be understood.


People, Vets, whoever, recommend 'Dog Food'...


So, fisrt timers then stuff Babys with force with CANNED 'meat', Canned Dog or Cat 'food' and kill the Baby.


We can not count on our own privately held and never assayed understandings, to be imparted by vague or casual mentions about general KINDS of names of things, when there is too much room for catastrophic error.


Cooking the food is another example...


Everyone assumes they are supposed to cook the formula, then the cooked formula makes an impervious 'slug' which does not dissplve or move through, and the Bird dies.

NO COOKING OF FORMULA!!!!!



And on, and on, and on...


I try and give real, proven, integrated information, and it is like Water on a Ducks back.



Why listen when one can just go off inventing things out of NO knowledge, no experiencve and no understanding !!!!


Well, the difference is, a Dead Bird, or, one who one maganes to bring along so it lives.


That...is the 'difference'...



Phil
l v

[pdpbison]

Originally Posted by cyro51

Phil, the microwave was used to warm a gel pack for the pigeon to lie on, not to eat. And the small shops that are allowed to be open at this time on a Sunday certainly don't stock canary or finch seed.

Cynthia

Okay...



But meanwhile, at least I hope I covered THAT aspect so IT is understood!!!


Lol...


Phil

l v

[Athalie]

I am not a naïve first timer, I am a person who is trying to help. If I am doing something wrong is because, like you have pointed it out, I have no knowledge and even less information about how to feed a baby collared dove. I can be bothered taking care of it, in fact I sit at the window from 7 am till 6 pm watching for the parents to come and feed it because I know I have no clue about what to do. I’ve read everything that was available on the internet but every single site I went on recommended either dog-food or Exact hand feeding formula, which by the way is not available in shops in England anywhere. I am not stupid, I know birds can’t have tinned dog food, I would never give it any, or force feed it for that matter.
I can only say that I have done my best and that the baby seems better then when I found it. I did not cook the cornmeal I mixed it up in hot water, as for blocking, the only thing that ‘pap’ would block is the eye of the needle.
I will buy pigeon seeds first thing in the morning and will take the time, as I have done till now, to get him used to it. I have a limited amount of information and even that is so varied it seems to contradict itself. I will let the behaviour of the bird be my guide I know him enough to judge if he doesn’t like something.
Till I get the seeds tomorrow I will continue giving him the hydrating mix just in case the drain clogs up
Thank everyone who offered to help I will make sure to let you know how Bo gets along.

[Dezirrae]

Hi Athalie Believe me - you HAVE come to the right place for advice AND support. I've never rescued a bird - let alone a baby bird, so I can only let you know that I am sending positive thoughts and saying some prayers for your little one. Simply judging from the times of your posts I can tell that you are dedicated to helping pull this little one through such a tough time in his/her life. Bless you for being thoughtful enough to take care of him/her and for doing all the research and reaching out that you are

[John_D]

Phil

You have been warned many times

One more nasty little squeak out of you and you are

OFF THIS FORUM PERMANENTLY

This is it!

John