Greetings!

[John_D]

Hi,

No reason why he can't have just plain water now, as he will have recovered from any dehydration if he was suffering from it. Not surprised he is a bit tentative about the seeds, as he is so young and would only just be starting to peck for food for himself (I'd estimate) were he on the outside, learned partly by instinct and partly by watching other doves.

John

[Dezirrae]

Originally Posted by Athalie

I’m trying to upload the pictures of the seeds but it keeps saying upload error. They are finch and canary seeds, I mixed them together in a small glass tea light holder (a bit shorter than the shot glass). I put him on my lap on a fluffy towel and covered him with a small face towel, ha pecked at them immediately but only swallowed two and played about with the rest. I keep offering it to him but he doesn’t seem to want any more. I will give him a tiny bit more of the cornmeal gruel he gobbles that up, guess he likes it. Does he need water or is the hydrating mix enough?

I'm soooo glad to hear he's doing better!! At least sure seems like it from the increased energy level Good job!

The photo error may be that the picture is larger than the size limitation. If you know how to reduce the file size, try that -- or if you'd like to email me the picture (dezirrae@optonline.net) I'd be happy to post it for you.

[cyro51]

Hi Athalie,

Collared doves eat seed and grain whereas finches eat seeds and insects. Have a look at the contents of the packet and if there is a non-seed or grain component then remove it.

The Ready Brek will be fine, the only risk there is is that he could aspirate while being fed, so keep him still (if you can) and go slowly.

"We have all seen that Pot of Oatmeal or other 'Cooked Cereal' which was not finished from Breakfast, and how 'easy' ( NOT! ) it is to dissolve it then in the sink, yes?" This theory discounts the fact that food in the digestive system is maintained at body temperature unless the bird is given freezing water or snow. Pigeons and doves have a slightly higher body temperature than we have, so a mix that is warmed to 39 degrees and served at that temperature will remain at that temperature and won't harden into a lump of "cold porridge" as suggested.

According to Les Stocker (founder of St Tiggiwinkles), chicken growers pellets offer a complete diet to pigeons and doves. I have been buying these pellets for the wild woodies and doves, but it takes them a bit of time to recognise them as food.

Cynthia

[Athalie]

Hello again! I managed to upload the pictures of the seeds. I have been encouraging him to peck at them but I think I over encouraged him cause now he pecks at everything fingers, sides of the box even had a go at the towel under him so glad to see him so active. I was afraid to leave him alone in the bedroom in case he tries to fly out again (he did this morning and nearly got stuck under the bed) so I took him downstairs with me in its box and put it on the windowsill right above the radiator, it’s warm there. I must say he loves it looking around even trotted the length of the windowsill a few times.
I gave him a bit of water (I dipped my finger in it and couldn’t feel its temperature just the texture, hope that wasn’t too warm or cold) and some more cornmeal gruel, he loves that.
I will post pictures of him in a bit
Thanks for all the help and advice, he is doing very well. Compared to the way he looked yesterday I’d say he is getting better.

[AZWhitefeather]

Many thanks for the update.
It does indeed sound like your little patient is feeling better.

Look forward to some updated pictures when time permits.

Cindy

[pdpbison]

Hi Athalie,



Can't tell anything about the Seeds from the images...


But, any small whole Seeds which other Birds eat, will be fine for him.


Someone mentioned also that you could select out the 'small' Seeds from those Mixes which contain small and large.


The 'Shot Glass Gobble' or whatever one might call it, will not work unless the Seeds are small...so, electing the smaller Seeds out of a Mix would be a good idea for sure, as a way of making your own Mix and for it to have a little more variety.

White Safflower Seeds are excellent, as are Hemp Seeds, if you can find them there.

If the Oat Groats are more than 1/4 inch Long, consider to cut them in half...and if any have their 'pointy' husks, remove the husk.


Also, at least in my experience, the largest Seed I have ever seen any youngster peck when new to pecking, is about 3/16ths of an inch in diameter, which the smaller dried Peas tend to be, or is about an average larger Milo Seed in sie...the White Safflower Seeds while longer and more slender, are managed well even by the tiny Doves I have had in their early pecking stages.

But for the intermediate 'gobble' stage, small whole Seeds will suit how the Birds do not tend to open their Beaks enough for anything larger to get in. Or they will open their Beaks more, but it usually requires a variation of the gesture from us, and this all ends up needing a 200 page Book then to explain it...so, the regular 'Shot Glass Seed Gobble' is plenty god enough as it is, and is not complicated or overly elusive to learn.

One also gently pushes the Seeds into their slihgtly opening Beak as their Beak is buried IN the Seeds, with the available finger tips of the hand whose finger tips are on the Beak Sides...and this helps a little also to get the Seeds in there.


Most youngsters take to this alost instantly, and will eat to the depth of their Beak...so they eat 2/3rds or so of it, and one refills to full.


A 'Baby' or younhgster can eat an honest Volume 'dry' Ounce in a minute or so, if not less.


This is infintely more convenient, safe, and effective, and fun...for them, and us, than other or tedious means of trying to get Seeds into a not yet pecking Pigeon or Dove.





You should offer 'tepid' Water for him to drink, several ties a day...in a Tea Cup would be fine, just hold it for him, and, if need be, gently guide his Beak into it. Do this in Towell Cave for that matter so his attentions are not scattered.

Youngsters instinctively or otherwise 'expect' their Water to be Body Temperature, since that is how it was or would be when being given to them by their parent(s).


They will refuse it if it is not close to their Body Temperature.


If you softly hold his beak in your finger tips, will he 'nuzzle' and push a little?


If so, guide his Beak into Water....and, also do the same 'gesture' for guiding his Beak into the little Glass of Seeds while keeping your finger tips on the sides of his Beak toward the back where the corners of his mouth are...and he may 'gobble' the Seeds with the same motions he would use if being fed by his parents.

It is important to keep your finger tips on the rear sides of his Beak so he can feel them definitely 'there', and if he 'gobbles' the Seeds in the Glass then, after a few times all you have to do is guide his Beak to them and you can let go or just keep one finger tip there...or if he stops, put your finger tips back and he will resume 'gobbling'...


'gobbling' is them opening and closing their Beak as they would be doing in their parent's Throat if being fed by them.


We can invite them to do this by the above method, for them to 'gobble' small whole Seeds in a Shot Glass or similar wideish, 'deep' small container. This will allow him to eat a good deal in short-order, as he continues to advance in his Pecking Skills as such.


Best wishes..!


Phil
l v

[Athalie]

Greetings! Hope everyone had a nice day today, I know Mondays are always the longest My sweet little Bo is doing great, never seen him this active, ha absolutely loves being on the windowsill Think he is snoozing now warm and cosy in his box. He pooped a lot today, at least once an hour, but they all had a bit of water around them. They were all normal poops, dark green with white about the size of the tip of my thumb I just noticed that the towel around them was wet. I gave him about 60 ml of water,about 4 teaspoons of it after each feed, ha hasn’t had any more since 6 pm I will give him some just before bed. He ate 3 times today, swallowed about 4 to 5 seeds in every feeding and scattered up the rest I gave him some corn meal gruel too, about 10 ml each time I will feed him one more time tonight. I had a bit of trouble with the towel cave, he didn’t like being covered up with an ordinary towel, don’t know why, I used a thin microfiber one instead and he fell asleep as soon as he was under it. Haven’t really got used to checking his crop yet, it might take me another day to get the hang of it. In the mean time I just feed him till he doesn’t seem to want more.
I just got around to looking at all the pictures you gave me the link to Phil, wish I would have thought of using a Nipple for feeding, it’s certainly better then the pen I use. I will get one tomorrow for him. You are doing a wonderful thing with those birds, I admire you very much. Wish my Bo would start to eat more of the seeds, but instead he just pecks at my fingers I noticed that the seeds on your pictures are small round ones, over here they sell them as budgie food, the ones they gave me in the pet shop are small and long, they said those are for canaries. I had some budgie seeds at home last night if I would have known they were ok… I have a budgie, Jordy. Will the long “English versioned canary seeds” still be ok to give him or should I use the budgie seeds instead?
Best wishes
Lots of thanks!

[Athalie]

Here are some pic ctures of me feeding him.
PS The seeds are both small and long, the dark ones are for finches and the light colored ones are for canarys... that's what i asked for at tha pet shop and they gave me those two types. Again i noticed the seeds in your pictures (Phil) are round ones, over here they sell them for budgies... i will post larger pictures of them later ir maybe you can see them in the pictures with Bo.
He doesn't like me touching his beak, but he knew what to do when he saw the seeds . I use the pen to give him the water aswell as the cornmeal gruel, i tried from the shot glass but he seems to like it more out of the pen, he drinks as soon as he sees it, with the glass he needed persuading.
How much water would you recomend a day? I wouldnt want to give him too much ...
Best wishes!

[mr squeaks]

Hi Athalie!

BO looks like what I would call a very spoiled and comfortable little guy!

Keep up the great work!

Hugs and Scritches

Shi & Squeaks

[cyro51]

Hi Athalie,

The black ones are niger seeds, goldfinches love them but I have never managed to get collared doves interested in them , or the dunnocks for that matter. If Bo doesn't eat them then put them is a goldfinch feeder close to a hedge or hedgerow and enjoy the splash of colour that they provide.

How much water would you recomend a day? I wouldnt want to give him too much ...

If he is drinking on his own then he will take as much as he needs.

Budgie seeds will be OK.

Cynthia

[Feather]

He sure is a cutie, and looks quite confortable.

[Dezirrae]

You are doing a fantastic job Athalie! Thanks for all the updates - and for caring so much for this little one. I hope the two of you get to sleep through the night soon

[pdpbison]

Originally Posted by Athalie

Here are some pic ctures of me feeding him.
PS The seeds are both small and long, the dark ones are for finches and the light colored ones are for canarys... that's what i asked for at tha pet shop and they gave me those two types. Again i noticed the seeds in your pictures (Phil) are round ones, over here they sell them for budgies... i will post larger pictures of them later ir maybe you can see them in the pictures with Bo.

Hi Athalie,



Well, if you go back, look for yourself at what kinds of smaller size whole Seeds they carry.


Any small to medium sized Seeds suitable for any kind of Bird, will be fine for her...and, ideally, one would prefer to have a variety, whether it coes as a 'mix' or if one mixes them one's self.

'Mediteranian' or other 'foreign' kinds of Markets often sell small Bags of various 'Grains' and Seeds, many of which are fine for our Birds.

Definitely they would have Flax, Millet, Sesame, Triticale or Buck Wheat, Barley, sall Mung Beans ( well, that is nore Asian, but..) Hulled Sunflower "Kernals" so long as they are 'sweet' soft and fresh...if dry, brittle or not sweet tasting, do not use them...any Grains or Seeds which people can eat 'raw', a Pigeon or Dove can too. Avoid Soy beans however...

So called 'Health Food Stores' or Health Food Co-Ops often carry various whole Seeds and Grains also in small Bags or Bulk...

Old Fashioned 'Feed Stores' also sometimes still do...if one is near any Agricultural regions or enclaves.

He doesn't like me touching his beak, but he knew what to do when he saw the seeds . I use the pen to give him the water aswell as the cornmeal gruel, i tried from the shot glass but he seems to like it more out of the pen, he drinks as soon as he sees it, with the glass he needed persuading.
How much water would you recomend a day? I wouldnt want to give him too much ...
Best wishes!

The 'Nipple' - if you wish to try it...you tilt it toward them a little, and, once their Beak is in it, you squeeze the soft Rubber of it from the sides so it is softly 'against' the sides of their Beak back by the root or mouth...they need to 'feel' this there to remind them of their parent's Throat.

If you are goping to try it, ask me soe ore about it...


A Dove that size would likely eat eight or ten or twelve Nipple's full to a 'meal'...with three or four meals-a-day.

Tiny ones 1/5th his size will eat three or four even to-a-meal...so...


45-50 good sized poops-a-day or more ( 24 hours) is what one WILL find, for a fledgling who is active and eating enough...less of course, for the convelesent.



All the Water he likes is fine, as far as how much Water.


He will be the best judge of how much he needs to drink.


Offer Water which is warmed to about body temperature...or he will not like it or not drink as much as he should.



Best wishes..!


Phil
l v

[cyro51]

Phil, I am curious about how rapidly the eurasian collared dove is spreading in the US.

We know from Julie that they are plentiful in Miami and I know that "dispersers" have been spotted in Nevada, but have they already built up in large numbers there? Are they getting labelled as a "nuisance" or "pest" series?

Have you had many turn up needing care?

Cynthia

[pdpbison]

Hi Cynthia,



I do not know!


I did see two at 'Petsmart', in their Birds-for-sale section...and they were lovely Birds, MUCH larger than our Mourning Doves, and rather more like a Pigeon overall in their presence...or, like more than half-way between a Mourning Dove and a Pigeon...stopping just short of 'Pigeon'...Lol...


I was very drawn to them.


I have never seen one otherwise...no one has brought me one.



They seem very charming, and I hope they may indeed settle in the Southern Mojave...




Phil
l v