Greetings!

[cyro51]

I thought that you had some hands on experience on which to base your advice!

You have to be careful when you advise on feeding quantities for a bird that you have never handled. It is easy to overestimate, or underestimate, their size from pictures.

The behaviour of different dove species is also different. So are their diets and their tolerance of stress.

It is for this reason that I avoid giving advice on the care of Mourning Doves. We don't have them in the UK and it would be too easy for me to assume similarities with the Eurasian Collared Doves that don't exist.

Cynthia

[pdpbison]

Originally Posted by cyro51

I thought that you had some hands on experience on which to base your advice!

You have to be careful when you advise on feeding quantities for a bird that you have never handled. It is easy to overestimate, or underestimate, their size from pictures.

The behaviour of different dove species is also different. So are their diets and their tolerance of stress.

It is for this reason that I avoid giving advice on the care of Mourning Doves. We don't have them in the UK and it would be too easy for me to assume similarities with the Eurasian Collared Doves that don't exist.

Cynthia

Hi cynthia,



Thank you...

I appreciate your concern.



So...

Lets see what we can find out about this -



Show me what I have suggested or 'advised' or shared in this Thread, which in any way was not appropriate for "this" individual Dove.


Be specific so I or others also can learn something...provide actual information or facts please.


I would truely feel bad to have erred...and I would wish to make ammends of course, if I have.


So...examples please?



Thank you,


Best wishes,



Phil
l v

[Athalie]

Good afternoon everyone! Hope you had a nice day! Just thought I’d let you know how Bo’s getting on. He started eating seeds this morning, had about 20 ml of Ready Break at half past 8 and since then we are learning to peck at seeds He seems to like them very much, just has trouble judging the distance between his beak and the seeds so he misses quite a few times but he’ll get the hang of it soon He likes to sit on my chest and snooze, grooms himself a lot, he’ll be a pretty boy I will give him some more Ready Break and maybe some cornmeal gruel in the evening in case he didn’t manage to get enough seeds down for the day.
Thank everyone for all your help, especially Phil and Cynthia, couldn’t have done it without you! Take care! Best wishes!
I will keep writing to tell you how he’s getting on.

[cyro51]

Show me what I have suggested or 'advised' or shared in this Thread, which in any way was not appropriate for "this" individual Dove.
Be specific so I or others also can learn something...provide actual information or facts please.I would truely feel bad to have erred...and I would wish to make ammends of course, if I have. So...examples please?

Phil, I get the impression that your request is far from sincere, I don't really have the time for this and I don't want to quarrel with you because I know that you are genuinely caring about doves and pigeons, but as you have asked I will just summarise what alarmed me about your input on this thread, even before I realised that you had never even handled a collared dove:

The advice that was given by others about feeding on this thread was correct, a lot of it had been put forward in the past by Nooti, but you dismissed the foods that were recommended stating:

I try and give real, proven, integrated information, and it is like Water on a Ducks back. Why listen when one can just go off inventing things out of NO knowledge, no experience and no understanding !!!!

If someone on this forum has already offered valid advice then in my view it is wrong to start trying to panic and confuse the rescuer by suggesting that if they don't do things your way the bird will die. Specially when you have no experience to back your claims up.

You advised that instead of using the correct proportions for the rehydrating (which had already been put forward in an earlier post) the dove should be given "a good pinch of salt and a pinch of sugar in a cup of tepid water". That level of salt is dangerous, one member followed similar advice, although in that case it was a teaspoon of salt that was recommended, and the pigeon started foaming at the mouth and then died.

You also undermined and insulted just about every member on this forum when you said:

It happens in these threads here, and aside from me, virtually no one ever asks them WHAT they are actually doing, nor allows the person to know what NOT to do, virtually no one ever realizes that 'details' matter, review matters...the person says " I am feeding him some Dog Food and he seems a lot better now!" or, " I mixed some Dog Food and some Cereal and cooked some formula and fed it to him, and..." and everyone offeres cuddos and positive emotional support things, and no one realizes the mistake which IS happenning. Then the Bird dies, and everyone offers condolances on how much the person cared.

Bernadette had been advised to give the dove soaked dog biscuits and this is what she did, so the rant was uncalled for. As far as I remember this scenario that you offer has never actually happened on this forum. Perhaps you could enlighten us all on how we have contributed to killing a dove or any other bird.

This thread has seriously made me consider leaving the forum.

Cynthia

[pdpbison]

Hi Cynthia,



If the things I had said are to be understood in their actual context, we will find -


I was responding to Bernadette's having said she was "Boiling Cereal and adding Meat to it" and feeding that to the Dove.


I did end up catharcising and lamenting on broader sidelights of how people can innocently make fatal or harmful mistakes, or, disregard information given them in naive or impetuous inventions or capris, in careing for and feeding young or Baby Birds.


And that is all there was to it. And nothing more or else need be put in to it.




As it happens, Bernadette later clearified, that when she had said "Boiled" she meant 'Warmed'...and, when she had said "Meat" she had meant 'Dog Bisquit'...

Okay, we got that cleared up and all was well then.



None of your 'quotes' are in context, nor are they recognising the actual contextual succession of developement or address, of what actually transpired wherein I had said what I had said. You are trying to apply these 'quotes' to issues or details they were never about.


I am very sorry for any offence anyone felt from anything I had written...even if it was for their "putting" it there in their own mis-readings, hasty 'reactions', or emotionalized and even accidental interpolations, confusions, or anything else.

I want only and most, for us all to enjoy good practices, good information, kindness, patience, friendship, fellowship for our interests, respect for the Birds, and, for eachother...and to have fun, too..! Of course!


We all Love these Birds...


Please, let us all give our good will and support to eachother, in positive ways, supportive ways, friendly ways, kind ways, careful ways...even knowing we will slip up now and then. And to be forgiving if we do slip up sometimes.


This forum is dear to all of us, as are the Birds it is for.



I do not think anyone benifits to be putting lots of heavy negative energy into fault finding, even if fault is to be found.


That is my appreciation, and it is also my aspiration for my own conduct and writing.


I do not know what else to say at this point, but that.




Best wishes,


Phil
Las Vegas

[ryannon]

Originally Posted by pdpbison

We all Love these Birds...


Please, let us all give our good will and support to eachother, in positive ways, supportive ways, friendly ways, kind ways, careful ways...even knowing we will slip up now and then. And to be forgiving if we do slip up sometimes.


This forum is dear to all of us, as are the Birds it is for.

Best wishes,


Phil
Las Vegas

As in life, there will always be differences of interpretation and potential personality clashes on a forum: part of being an adult is knowing when to cut others a bit of slack.

It strikes me as particularly unjust when I see a member like Phil being put on the defensive.

And the same would apply to any number of forum regulars here.

It happened to me once - through the 'cherrypicking' of comments I posted in a thread, and both out of loyalty to someone who's consistently shown his own loyalty to the best interest of pigeons, and my own experience, I'm saddened and upset to see this happening once again.

We all know who our real opponents are - what a shame to turn people on our own side into make-believe enemies.

How nice it would be if members could grant some of the infinite patience and love they have for pigeons to the occasional tried and true member of this forum who inadvertently ruffles their feathers without meaning to do so.

[Athalie]

Greetings everyone! Hope your day was nice! Bo is doing great, comfy and cosy in his box, ate lots of seeds today (about 4 teaspoons worth), I am glad about that, he pooped some nice big ones too never thought I would be happy to see poop on my T-shirt He seemed a bit sleepy since 5 pm but he was eating well and drinking water too, so might have been just the weather. I gave him about 5 ml of Ready Break not long ago he didn’t seem to want more I didn’t force him, guess he had enough seeds.
I will keep posting updates on his progress.
I am truly grateful for everyone’s advice, and I do mean everyones, because I know that you all were trying to help the best way you could.
I wish you all a good night and a sunny day tomorrow!
Bernadette

[AZWhitefeather]

Appreciate the update, Bernadette.

Glad to hear Bo is doing so well.
You've done, & are doing, a wonderful job.

Cindy

[cyro51]

As in life, there will always be differences of interpretation and potential personality clashes on a forum: part of being an adult is knowing when to cut others a bit of slack.

A few years ago I offered some advice on US law relating to pigeons, I was picked up on it and told not to try to advise on a subject that I new nothing about because it is dangerous. I appreciated that advice and have the greatest respect and friendship tpowards the member that gave it. I have also followed it ever since.

I am not concerned about who the enemy is here, or whose ego is has to be protected from the truth but in who the victim is, and that is invariably the pigeon. When I was new to pigeon rescue someone who "knew everything about pigeons" gave me instructions that led to the death of the pigeon.

I will not sit back and keep quiet when a new member is bullied and wrongly told that she is doing everything incorrectly by someone who hadn't taken the time to check his facts, because that will ultimately harm the bird. This is the fourth time this same scenario has happened in a matter of months , coincidentally each time a first time UK female rescuer has been the target. In one shameful instance the bully deleted most of his post after the rescuer had responded and had the gall to pretend that she was suffering delusions by responding to accusations that hadn't been made.

As far as I am concerned bullying and lying are unacceptable, even in other pigeon lovers and I will always stand up for what I believe is right

[ryannon]

It's true: Phil is a notorious bully, liar and all-around psychopath.

He constantly mis-informs and has serious ego problems about it.

He also hates women, especially those in Great Britain.

It's possible that he's also suffering from terminal andropause.

I think this forum would be much better if he were banned.

After which, I think I'll ban myself.

Jesus, life is too short for this kind of psychodrama.

[AZWhitefeather]

ENOUGH already.

Ryannon,
If you post in this thread again, it better be something specifically pertaining to Bernadette's dove.

Any further nonsense posts will be deleted.

If you want to discuss this further, please feel free to email me:
AZWhitefeather@aol.com

Cindy

[cyro51]

You think as you please and do as you please, Jonathan.

[Dezirrae]

Originally Posted by Athalie

Greetings everyone! Hope your day was nice! Bo is doing great, comfy and cosy in his box, ate lots of seeds today (about 4 teaspoons worth), I am glad about that, he pooped some nice big ones too never thought I would be happy to see poop on my T-shirt He seemed a bit sleepy since 5 pm but he was eating well and drinking water too, so might have been just the weather. I gave him about 5 ml of Ready Break not long ago he didn’t seem to want more I didn’t force him, guess he had enough seeds.
I will keep posting updates on his progress.
I am truly grateful for everyone’s advice, and I do mean everyones, because I know that you all were trying to help the best way you could.
I wish you all a good night and a sunny day tomorrow!
Bernadette

This is great Bernadette Hope Bo is comfy & cosy today too. You made me laugh with the "never thought I would be so happy to see poop on my t-shirt" - I know what you mean! hehehee... Looking forward to the next update. My hat off to you for doing such a wonderful job

[TAWhatley]

Folks, let's please get this thread back to the care of the bird and the well being of the bird. Members that want to bicker about who said what to who and why, need to take it private or take it up with one or more of the moderators.

I think any salient points about the proper care of the bird have been adequately made and any incorrect or confusing information in that regard has been clarified.

Cindy said it all .. ENOUGH ALREADY!

Thank you for your cooperation!

Terry

[nikku-chan]

yeah, well done Bernadette.
I am quite new to this forum also, as i found a little baby a few weeks ago that is now the same age as your baby.

It can be very daunting..especially if you are told such conflicting information. But you've done a really good job.

I hope your little baby is thriving. What do you think you'll do with him once he's ready to fend for himself?

This is now my dilemma... I'm not sure what to do with my baby!

Post more pics soon!

Goodluck!

Nikku x