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#46
18th August 2008, 12:06 PM
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I was PM'ed to have a look here, and it seems to me that all the necessary information/suggestions have already been posted for HitchHiker. I would just add that if 20 cc/ml per feeding is working and 30 cc/ml is difficult to give, then stay with the smaller amount. We certainly don't need this youngster going into sour crop/crop stasis at this point.
As was posted, a video of the movements of the young bird would be very helpful. Still, if it does have PMV, then there really isn't anything more to be done than is already being done. Making sure about possible canker would be a definite plus if that can be done. If a vet can be found to do the fecal then perhaps that same vet could provide whatever drugs might be needed. Terry 
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#47
18th August 2008, 01:13 PM
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I just wanted to add that Hitch Hiker has PM'd me his details so I will send him some meds tomorrow.
Hitch Hiker, if you have digital scales it would be a good idea to check your pigeon's weight daily, that way you will know whether he is getting enough to eat. Cynthia
__________________
All beings are fond of themselves, they like pleasure, they hate pain, they shun destruction, they like life and want to live long. To all, life is dear; hence their life should be protected. -Mahavira
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#49
18th August 2008, 06:01 PM
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Probably Canker...possibly a Bacterial issue also...
when feeling sick, youngsters will sometimes not wish to eat...and, they definitely will not wish to eat foods they feel are not confortable for them, even when feeling at their best. PPMV does not tend to occasion 'circles' in Pigeons this young so far as I ever saw...while pigeons of this age ALWWAYS go in circles or twirl if feeling excited. This youngster would probably be self feeding in ten minutes if worked with...IF he had a good appetite...and if he is sick, his appetite might well be 'off'. If it was me, I would be feeding him whole proper Seeds, via 'Seed-Pop' which of course requires one open his Beak... This alone will get things going usually with an 'iffy' one for them to begin nuzzling and then one can guide them to peck usually quite easily. I would definitely consider to treat for Canker, and, to also administer an Antibiotic such as Baytril or Doxycycline or Tetracycline or something anyway, and to provide supplimental heat so his actual Body Temperatures is about 103 Farenheight, regardless of if it is 86 or 96 degrees out which means nothing as for how warm he needs to be internally... And I would use ACV-Water for his Drinking Water, to the tune of three tablespoons to the Gallon. He can be guided to drink by making sure his drinking Water is close to body temperature, and, by simply guiding his Beak in one's finger tips so his Beak enters the Water with one's finget tips staying on his Beak sides, and he will drink. Any 'wet' food, or Water has to be close to his own Body temperature, or he will refuse either, no matter what else they have for merit. Good luck..! Phil l v
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#50
18th August 2008, 08:55 PM
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hi hitchhiker,
Just trying to thin some more on this... Feeding wise, I do not now what you have access to. If you have cooked 'garbanzos' you can divde them into small pieces say about 3/16ths of an inch square...and these are a good food for them, but generally one does not use any kind of cooked foods. A little fresh Cilantro...just the leaves, cut or torn to be in small pieces, are very good also. Good quality Bird Seed, such as is for Finches or Canarys is very good... Time will tell if this youngster has PPMV, but probably he does not. When they poop, there are two components to it which occur simultaneously - Fecal matter, being usually brownish green... Urates, being 'white' usually. If the Urates are 'yellow' or even slightly yellow, it is an indication of an infection of some kind. One way to manage for putting food into a young Pigeon's mouth for them to swallow...is to gently have their Legs straight back, and wrap them lightly in a small cloth or hand-towel, so that some extra towel is extending past their Tail...and it is loose around their Crop...wrapping them in only one or two turns of cloth is all, while maing sure their Legs are 'back' straight. Then, to 'spigot' them like this, between your legs as you sit, behind your knees, so the Pigeon is "vertical" and you can hold them then securely as you sit, just using your legs...where what your legs are closed against is ONLY the towel part which is over their Tail and the extra, so no actual pressure is on the Bird itself. This lets you have both hands free, for opening their Beak, and putting a little bite of food or a seed or two in, for them to swallow. Do not do this with any liquids, and for that matter, he will be glad to drink willingly if you just work with him as I described in the prior post. Does he 'nuzzle' then, or 'squeak' in probing your hands with his Beak? Phil l v Last edited by pdpbison; 18th August 2008 at 08:58 PM.
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#51
19th August 2008, 03:10 AM
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UpdateHi Everyone,
Thank you very much for all the good advice. It really helps a lot. I found a bird vet here in Cyprus (funny, he is about 500m from my home...  ). I will take Tzip (that's how I named the baby) for an examination this afternoon.I will update as soon as I have results. Please cross your fingers for Tzip. HitchHiker
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#52
19th August 2008, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Terry
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#54
20th August 2008, 02:06 AM
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Hi All,
sorry to keep you waiting. The birds vet said everything is ok (sigh!). No canker, poop is ok, not wanting to eat is because I'm not his mother. He said to continue with the mixture I prepared, which by the way I upgraded. This morning I also gave him some barley grains and he was quite happy with them. So... everything looks ok. I will keep you guys posted. Thanks for all your advice! I would have been lost without it.
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#55
20th August 2008, 02:28 AM
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Hi hitchiker,
Glad to hear the Vet gavethe little one the 'all clear'... What kinds of Seeds or Grains do you have or have acess to? Can you get regular, traditional 'Canary Seed' or 'Finch Seed' or any kind of small, whole Bird Seeds there where you are? Phil l v
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#57
20th August 2008, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
Just a thought, since canker isn't always visible, in previous situations, members have treated for the illness as a precaution. This may be something to think about with your situation. Wishing you both the best. Cindy
__________________
A Pigeon's Prayer  Please watch over us while we fly, keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky. If we become ill or injured in any way, Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay. Cindy Boyce
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#58
20th August 2008, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Also Baytril and probiotics, just in case they are needed.Cynthia
__________________
All beings are fond of themselves, they like pleasure, they hate pain, they shun destruction, they like life and want to live long. To all, life is dear; hence their life should be protected. -Mahavira
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#59
24th August 2008, 09:30 AM
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Hi All,
Just a short update to say everything is ok with Tzip. He now behaves normally, squeaking at me with excitement and flapping his wings whenever I come to feed him. He also runs toward me and pick my hand in search for food. I feed him 3 times a day with the following: 1. 20cc mixture of beans, rice, wheat, hummus beans, birds seed, oats, bread crumbs, barley all grinned to dust and mixed with warm water. 2. 50 barley grains. He's quite happy with the food. Finally, a question: how and when should I teach him to fly? HitchHiker
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#60
24th August 2008, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Their flying is a natural instinct. Cindy
__________________
A Pigeon's Prayer Please watch over us while we fly, keeping us safe from the predators that share the sky. If we become ill or injured in any way, Please lead us to safety where we are welcome to stay. Cindy Boyce
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