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#31
19th September 2006, 03:08 PM
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Hi Raine,
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Yahhhhh...that be the 'slug'... And it sort of sticks to itself more than it dissolves, especially if his system draws off the moisture it needs to stay more dissolved, so it ends up being kind of a 'slug' there, pending more moisture, but then the water he will drink will tend mostly to just go around it, so, your little 'massage' is helpful for this kind of situation. Quote:
He is pretty little, like 6 or 7 days maybe. If it was me, I would... Grind some regular Pigeon Seed mix, or a good Bird Seed mix, into a semi-coarse 'meal', about like Percolators used to prefer for their Coffee to be ground...not too fine, but of course not too 'coarse' either... You can use a regular Kitchen Blender, but you will have to put in most of a Tea Cup worth for the Blender to do it, and then stop, take something narrow, and scoop out the un-ground Seeds from around the blad base, and grind some more. Do this 'dry' of course... When you go to the Health Food Store, get a package of semi-dry Goji-Berries. And if they sell bulk stuff by-the-ounce, get a few ounces of Purple Dulce which will be little flakes. Also get a little Bottle of Sour or Dark Cherry syrup or concentrated juice. When you grind the Seeds, if you grind a Tea Cup full of Seeds, add about 30 Goji Berries to them so the Berries get ground up too. Keep this 'Seed Meal' covered and in the freezer for when needed...and of course it is a 'dry' mix. Go to 'petsmart' or the likes, and get a tube of 'Nutrical', likely it is in the 'puppy' isle... Get some 'plain' Malto Meal... For his daily chow for now, take say one flat Tablespoon of the 'K-T'...and one rounded one of the dry Seed-Berry mix, and one half or so of a Tablespoon of the Malto Meal and put into a Tea Cup or similar...Add a teaspoon of Purple Dulce, and stirr them togather dry... ...and cover with enough good cool Water so the Water covers it with 3/8ths or so of an inch Water on top, and let sit for twenty minutes or so. After it has sat, add a inch and a half long 'squig' of the 'Nutrical', a half teaspoon or so of fresh, new Bottle Olive Oil ( do not skimp here by useing anything else! ) and a teaspoon or so of the Cherry Juice... ...and warm some cool Water on the Stove in a Saucepan, say an inch and a half or so of Water...and set the Cup of formula in the Water there and stirr so that it is all even and homogenous, if you need to, add some more Water so the formula arrives at the desired consistancy, about like melted Ice Cream would be...and this will simultaneously warm it evenly since you are stirring continuously, and when it get to about 100 -103 degrees, bring the Tea Cup and the Nipple and so on and feed him. If you get good at this, and remove the Sauce Pan from the Stove with the Water at the right temp, you can leave the Cup in the Saucepan for keeping it warm in Winter time while you feed, and or if you have multiple Peepers/Squeakers/Youngsters you are feeding, otherwise it can cool off too fast... This batch, in the Tea Cup or little Custard Cup or similar, you can then freeze untill the next meal time, when you will of course warm it again. It should be fine for three days use this way, if frozen between meals. If Refriderated only between meals, it chould be covered of course, and made fresh each day...do not re-use previous refridgerated formula. Quote:
Good Quality Seeds have the highest nutrition anyone could ever seek. I wish I had a Gizzard, I would eat mostly Seeds and some Greens and maybe a slice of Pie now and then, and just forget the rest... Lol... So no, I would not use any of those... And, if you use the stuff I like, and outlined above, your Peeper should be getting really excellent nutrition, have a happy little Thyroid, excellent Calcium uptake for nice Bones and all, as well as really good tasting formula to please his taste buds...and all the protean he will need for making all those feathers and so on. Tase it, you'll see! It is really very yummy. Bayby Doves like it too, and THEY can be pretty hard to please sometimes..! In fact, I would have to say, 99 out of 100 Dove or Pigeon Peepers agree, this is the chow they love...and the 1 who did not agree, wanted more Goji-Berries in it, so even that is easy to fix... Phil Las Vegas Last edited by pdpbison; 19th September 2006 at 03:28 PM. 
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#32
19th September 2006, 05:27 PM
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Phil, what is purple dulce? I don't recall your mentioning that ingredient before.
__________________
Maggie
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#33
19th September 2006, 10:13 PM
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Hi Maggie,
Purple Dulce is a kind of Sea Weed or Sea Vetable... I just did a 'goole' and could find no information on it, other then it occuring in various Herbal combination things. Anyway, it is good for all Creatures... Health Food Stores which carry bulk Herbs and related, will have it by the Ounce, and it is very reasonable... Too, I often add some powdered 'Super Greens' of some kind or another to the Baby's formula, and these similarly, are usually available in bulk, by the ounce...or in Powder in a small container. My favorite Sea Weed that everyone of all ages loved I can not seem to find here anymore... It had no more Sodium in it than the Seeds do, and was great for the A and some other Vitamines. Many Sea Weeds or Sea Vegetables are not salty at all, and are close in various ways to the low plants which pigeons graze in the wilds or feral rhelms Similarly, the Goji-Berries do well to answer for various small fruiting Bodys they also will graze when avialable, as well as being an excellent all around food and antioxidant. Phil Las Vegas
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#34
19th September 2006, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
AND, for us humans, these delightful little Goji Berry morsels ALSO come covered in DARK CHOCOLATE - thus covering TWO BASIC FOOD GROUPS (chocolate and fruit)!!   mmmm, DELICIOUS!!We can munch along with our pijies...(WE get the chocolate, of course!)
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#35
20th September 2006, 07:06 AM
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Wow thanks Phil! I have to make a list and go shopping.
I'm not sure if I'll be able to find the Nutrical. I don't have a petsmart here.. just small locally owned pet stores. I will take a look though. Is there anything I can substitute the Nutrical for in case I can't find it? Malto Meal and olive oil I know I can get at the grocery store. But the sour cherry syrup or juice I don't recall seeing. I take it, it also needs to be unsweetened? since I know yeast loves sugar. I've never been into a health food store..  But I know there must be one here. I'll have to take a look through the phone book. My hubby is at work.. and I don't drive. So I'll have to locate the health food store and arrange a ride, hopefully today.  Thanks again. I'll let you know how I make out shopping.
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#36
20th September 2006, 08:48 AM
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Ok I called every health food store in the phone book. Only one has the Goji berries and she only has one 100g package. They are pretty popular I guess. Everyone has them backordered. I got her to put it away for me along with the dark cherry juice.
She also has Dulce.. but not Purple Dulce. Is regular Dulce ok?
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#37
20th September 2006, 12:52 PM
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UGH nevermind the above. She sold the berries on me. I got a ride all the way up there too.
 So I ordered some Goji Berries, purple dulce and dark cherry juice from another health food store. It will all be in on Tuesday. I couldn't find the malto-milk or the Nutrical though. So in the meantime I ground up some seeds. I strained out any of the larger 'chunks' so it's blended to a nice textured powder. Can I just mix the powdered seed with the KT alone? Last edited by Raine; 20th September 2006 at 12:56 PM.
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#38
20th September 2006, 11:10 PM
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Hi Raine,
"Malto Meal"...the old-time, plain, breakfast Cereal one traditionally cooks... It is not far from say "K-T" nutritionally, and the peepers LOVE that 'Malty' hint in their chow...and for their formula, one just adds it from the box 'dry' to one's other dry ingredients and does not cook it of course... Sorry, I may have made a typo and written 'malto milk'..! Lol...forgive me! Anyway, sounds good! 'Nutrical' should be easy to get on-line if no one local carries it... It is usually associated with 'puppies' or 'kittens', so...any place that has those, or Breeds them, might have a tube to spare too... See how easy all this is??? ( Well, I can be accused of making it more complicated than some do...but by golly, it is for the Peepers! So, what else can we do? ) Lol... I personally HATE 'Health Food Stores'...almost every packaged item in them is some corporate scam for overpriceing erstwhile 'weeds' and obscure if otherwise mundane Herbs or Botanical items, that are a hassle to get otherwise... Oriental or Chineese Grocery stores carry Goji-Berries for like three bucks, for a larger size package, than the twelve-to-fourteen dollar package in 'Health Food Stores'... Makes my blood boil..! And most of the people shopping in those 'Health Food Stores' ( or running these stores, ) seem to have somehting 'wrong' with them in some weird way or other...or to be margainally creepy even. At least here in Las Vegas, it is so anyway. I like it when they have 'bulk' items in the bins and Big jars by-the-ounce...and those items then are usually very reasonable. If you feel like it, consider also to get some 'Udos Choice', ( or other) "Infant" powdered pro-biotics, and or to send off and get the 'Pigeon' kind Mail Order... And also, some 'Digestive Enzymes'...( health food store...the kind I got are old fashioned Gellitan Capsules, easy to pull apart to get the powder out of...came in a little box called a 'Travel Pack'.) These are both very good for infant Birds, as well as for Birds who have come off anti-biotics...likely ten or twelve bucks I think... Best wishes you two! Phil Las Vegas Last edited by pdpbison; 20th September 2006 at 11:25 PM.
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#39
22nd September 2006, 07:30 AM
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The poor little guy is still getting the 'slug' in his crop and I'm mixing his formula quite thin. I even have been letting the formula sit in a cup to let it absorb water and then thinning it out again before feeding to try to minimize it thickening in his crop.
But lastnight his crop was quite firm. I felt like dough.  So I gave him some ACV water and loosened it up. But this morning there was still a small slug in there. I gave him more ACV water and loosened the rest up. I'm hoping it's gone before it's time for his next feeding. He's getting quite annoyed with me since I keep waking him up to massage his crop.  Actually I think that was my typo 'Malto milk'.. lol I meant to say I couldn't find Malto meal. The cherry juice at the health food store was sold in 2 litre jugs and was quite expensive, $32 canadian. So I asked her if she had anything smaller since I don't need that much. When I told her it was for a Pigeon she thought it was quite funny. LOL But she said she'd give me a small container for free. Since she was nice enough to do that for me I decided to get the other stuff there too (Goji-berries and Purple dulce).
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#40
24th September 2006, 07:21 AM
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Just an update. It seems I have the slug problem under control. If I notice his crop getting thick then I just give him some more AVC water with probiotics in it.
His crop is still a little slow emptying. But he's also eating than he was when I first brought him home. He's emptying completely overnight. So I'm probably just worrying over nothing. The bigger he gets the more pushy he is. He's like a little fuzzy monster at feeding time. LOL If I'm too slow at filling the 'nipple' he tries to climb in the bowl instead. He also moving around quite a bit now and beginning to grip with his feet and 'perch' when I set him on my finger. Another question though.. I've had him for 10 days.. Guessing he was a day or 2 old when I got him that should make him 11-12 days old. But when I look at pics from http://www.speedpigeon.com/baby_racing_pigeon.htm He's behind in development. He 'looks' more like the 7-8 day old babies. I figured he would develop a little slower.. but it that normal to appear to be that far behind? I'll have to take some new pics so you can see what I mean..
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#42
24th September 2006, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
You could add small whole Seeds now of course, and he'd like that...that, and a little fine Canary Grit, but just a little pinch... Quote:
I forget, how are you keeping him warm? Remember, he needs ot ba about 101 - 103 Farenteit 24/7...except when you take him out, or he when he trundles out to be fed of course... Quote:
Wait a few more weeks, and you'll see just how 'pushy' pushy can get...! Quote:
If he is in a 'Peeper Warm House', this is about when he can start trundleing out when called... Quote:
As Reti mentions above, sometimes our people-raised Babys will lag beind the Pigeon-raised ones, and this is because the Pigeon Raised ones get a lot more food than we tend to feed ours. They keep their Babys stuffed to the gills, never waiting for the Baby's Crop to empty. Ours always catch up just fine however, so no worries there on that. They are very adaptable... But in my own practice, by now, for one a week old or so, I'd be making formula which is about 1/3rd small whole Seeds, or even 1/2...as well as adding the Dulce and Super Greens and Nutrical and so on...so, if you have not been so far, you'd be fine to do so now. Too, sometimes the people-raised ones will not get their Feathers in on areas which food routinely gets spilled, and these areas always fill in just fine later. Best wishes! Phil Las Vegas Last edited by pdpbison; 24th September 2006 at 08:20 PM.
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#43
25th September 2006, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
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He starts peeping for more food once his crop is about half-empty. With this 'slug' problem I wait until his crop is almost completely empty so I can feel for any lumps I may have missed and loosen them up before his next feeding. Oh.. and I have a poop question. His poops have a fair bit of clear water with them. Is it because I've been giving him extra water to loosen the clumps in his crop? During the night his poops seem to get firmer with less water. But I'm also not giving him extra water during the night. I know with my cockatiel if she eats 'watery' foods her poops are very watery. I'm wasn't sure if it was the same way for Pigeons. Thanks Reti and Phil. His growth was bothering me. I thought something else was wrong. Good to know it's fairly normal and he'll catch up. I do see pin feathers, but they are not through the skin yet. I still haven't taken those pic.. I'll get some today. Thanks again.
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#44
25th September 2006, 09:23 PM
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Hi Raine,
Yahhhhh...the 'extra' Water that is sort of going around the 'slug' can sort of pass on through in it's way...no harm with that. Anyway, I always offer tepid Water between meals...and gently massage a Crop that seems to want it... The ground seeds of course absorb quite a bit of Water at liesure, so a soupy formula is the best. You could just use small whole Seeds really, with some KT and other stuff, and be fine at this point, and skip the ground ones. In Nature, they'd be getting Seeds and dabs of Greens or Bitter Weeds and so on by now, and little to any Crop Milk as such anyway. Now, the only restraint needed for them, is when one wishes to withdraw the Nipple from their Beak, and or so keep them from pushing SO hard...Lol... And I usually just use an inverted finger 'V' from above, kind of at their shoulders to gently hol;d them back a little...but they are quite assertive, as you are finding out! One must not restrain them by having anything against their Crop of course. If you do the "ooooooOOOoooo!" call, for any feed or Water times, they will just come trundleing out of their Box now, and later, he will come when called once flying or exploreing. Their later fledgling time...this can be pretty important to get them rounded up from high places or the out of doors forays...where, otherwise, if one has no 'parental' way to call them, there will be confusions and problems and or premature 'releases' by default. Are you making formula each morning, and keeping it refrigerated through-out the day for his various meals? This helps it hydrate it fully, but their Crops still tend to draw off the Water regardless... Post some images so we can see him some more...! It is always fun to see a Peeper of course... Phil Las Vegas Last edited by pdpbison; 25th September 2006 at 09:30 PM.
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#45
26th September 2006, 07:19 AM
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He had quite the slug in there this morning on the right side.
At first I thought it was a growth/abcess or something because it felt hard. Scared the crap out of me. But I massaged his crop and gave him 2cc's of AVC water and it loosened it right up. Phew! I'm making his formula 'fresh' each meal. I mix it up a small amount about 20 minutes before each feeding. Whatever is left over I throw out. He's fed every 3-4 hours depending on how much food he has left in his crop. This little guy does not want to withdrawl his beak from the nipple. I have to wait until he's mid swallow and pull his head out. haha Otherwise if it's empty he 'gapes' and I can't get the nipple off his beak. Here's a few pics. I found one lonely pin feather this morning on his hip. I thought he had something stuck in his down. Low and behold it was a pin feather. He still looks so much younger than he is. He is about 13-14 days old now. Hmmm.. in that second pic. Does he look too thin? I may have snapped the pic mid breath.. And the redness on his legs and under the wings.. is that normal? Last edited by Raine; 26th September 2006 at 07:26 AM.
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