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#47
26th September 2006, 10:54 AM
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[quote=Raine]He had quite the slug in there this morning on the right side.
 At first I thought it was a growth/abcess or something because it felt hard. Scared the crap out of me.  But I massaged his crop and gave him 2cc's of AVC water and it loosened it right up. Phew! [quote]Hi Raine, Now, are you adding any of the other suppliments to the formula? The Dark Cherry or Elderberry concentrate, Dulce, Nutrical, digestive enzymes, pro-biotics? Quote:
Really, the ideal would be to mix up his day's formula the night before, refrigerate, and let it absorb all the water it will overnight, then use through out the day, and then discard any leftovers... Quote:
Yes... Lol... That is how they are..! Quote:
I am thinking he may be lacking some of the things his Pigeon parents would have imparted to him, and the digestive-enzymes may help him in that regard. If you did not find any in your area, I can send you some easily in the Mail. He certainly looks beautiful and healthy! He is just behind some ways on his developement... Too, you can probably graduate him to the full size Nipple, but cut off the flange that would mount it to the Bottle, and or even cut off a little more. Various Nipples have different ways about them, and some I cut off right below the transition under the flange, and some I mrerly cut off the 'ring' of the flange itself. But he can handle a bigger Nipple now anyway, which makes it easier for you, since each Nipple-full will be three times the volume or so. And, I think he would be fine to have some very small whole Seeds in his formula too...Canary Seed or Finch Seed, and of course add these when you make his formula, and let them hydrate with the rest of it overnight in the frige... Add more Water if need be ( and usually that is the case) when you warm it for his feed-time. If you mix and feed like you are, the formula will continue to absorb it's own Water in his Crop and thicken there. Hence, I think it is best to let the formula hydrate all it can before feeding...so, when you mix it, leave about 3/8ths or so of an inch of clear water on it for it to sit and absorb it at liesure. You could add all the ingredients, and in fact add Water thenm so there is a 1/2 inch of Water on top and NOT stirr untill morning when you warm it for feeding him...and even then, you will likely add more Water to get the consistancy right. Best wishes! Phil Las Vegas 
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#48
26th September 2006, 11:04 AM
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P.S.
How many of thise 'short' Nipple-fulls is he eating in-a-day? I never keep track of these things, but I would think he should be putting away fifty or so of them, if you are just useing the cut-off 5/8ths of an inch or so 'end' of a Nipple... If say, five or six of those to a feed, and six or eight feeds, then really more like 50 servings for 'that' container/nose bag... But this is just off the cuff... Of course, if his Crop is slow form the way the formula is behaving, and you are waiting for the Crop to empty before feeding again, this will lessen the overall amount of food he is getting... And this may be some of why he is developeing slowly. So, in summary, add some small whole Seeds, digestive enzymes, Cherry or Goji or Elderberry Syrups/concentrates, Dulce, Nutrical...a good pinch of fine Canary Grit, and make up his formula the night before, adding plenty of Water, and let it sit overnight, covered, in the Frige, and THEN stirr it all together as you warm it in a pan of hot Water, adding whatever additional Water it needs to be like 'melted Ice Cream', and... Look out! He will start growing like gangbusters...! Lol... Phil Las Vegas
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#49
26th September 2006, 02:05 PM
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Ok where do I start. haha
How many Nipple fulls? Hmm.. guessing I would say 15 or so per feeding. I only fill the nipple up so that it's just below his nostrils when he sticks his beak in it. I use a 1cc syringe to fill the nipple but I never keep track of the total amount. I don't wait until his crop is completely empty before his next feeding. I just wait until he's close to empty. If I waited for him to completely empty his feedings would probably be about 6 hours apart. I figured that was too long and he sure doesn't like waiting that long. So I just keep an eye on his crop and make sure it's soft and squishy and give him water as needed. The only time I've delayed a feeding is if he has a slug in there. Then he's given acv water and I loosen it up. Once I'm sure the clump is gone then I feed him. The Goji berries, dulce and cherry juice are on order. They were suppose to come in today but she called and told me they didn't come in. The only things I've added to his formula thus far are probiotics, digestive enzymes and ground seed. I'll get some grit and small seeds on payday which is friday. Hopefully the stuff from the health food store will be in then too. I actually tried using a full size nipple with just the ring cut off but he kept getting formula in his eyes, so that's why I cut it smaller. Oh would dandelion leaves work for 'greens'? I had bought some from the grocery store for my aquatic snails. They are full of calcium. I had thought about grinding some up and putting it in his formula. But I thought I better check if it was ok first. 
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#50
26th September 2006, 02:37 PM
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I just wanted to say how well you are doing Raine- I don't think I could do it - that baby is so tiny still - he is definately going to call you Mom!!
 You are doing a great job. Tania x
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#51
26th September 2006, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
So true Reti..! Same here...a nice big smootch..! Really, an extant Coelurosaur anyway...to be sure... Lol... Phil Las Vegas
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#52
26th September 2006, 04:16 PM
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Hi Raine
That all sounds good to me... Hmmmm...I should think Dandy Lion Greens would be fine, if minced up real small and all to his gobbleing to deal with easily. The powdered 'Super Greens', or 'Chlorella' of course are very good, and being powders, mix easily even for one's 'Tube Feed' occasions, which you do not have, but for those of us who sometimes do... I guess I can not thinkk of anything else right now... He sure is a little cutie...! Yahhh...the almost-full-size Nipple can be a little deep for them at this age...for which I sort of pinch the Nipple's base a little to effect the depth, but if the small version is working well, just stay with it a while yet. Very young Doves will put their whole head into the almost full size Nipple, clear past the eyeballs...and for them of course, the small version is much more tidy... Lol...
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#53
26th September 2006, 05:21 PM
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Phil, at your convenience, could you post a picture of the nipple you're talking about. I think I understand what you're cutting off but (duh) I need to have a picture drawn sometimes
 When we tried to use a nipple with all our babies this spring/summer I didn't cut anything off - that may be why they didn't work so well for us (plus when you have so many mouths to feed at one time the syringe was faster! ).Thanks. Raine, I meant to add that those last pictures are about the cutest I've seen of a baby pigeon. He is just precious. We had so many that age this spring to feed but I never tired of them (I got tired but not of them!) because they grow so fast and I wanted to enjoy every minute we had with them. You have done a wonderful job with him and I know you love him to pieces.
__________________
Maggie 
Last edited by Lady Tarheel; 26th September 2006 at 05:27 PM.
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#54
26th September 2006, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Maggie, I found this one...hope it helps..... http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpo...26&postcount=1 Linda
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#55
26th September 2006, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Here is an image from last year's Summer, with a Baby Dove looking on - http://good-times.webshots.com/photo...67835264ukanjD The left Nipple, is merely the cut-off 5/8ths or so of an inch, cut off of a regular Nipple, for the little Beaks... The right, shows a full Nipple with it's flange cut off...for the larger older Beaks. Now also, not shown, would be one where one cuts off aabout 1/4 inch or a little less from the one on the right, so as to remove the slight vertical section there, with it's re-inforced lines on the outside...to make a Nipple a little shorter at the top, and more pliable. These three variations are what I use for any Pigeon or Dove Babys from the tiniest to the fully fledged. I am sure that Nipples are available for nurseing Mammal Livestock Babys or Kitten Babys and so on, but while I have wanted to get some, I have not obtained any yet to try. Raine appears to be useing one made to be as the one on the left here... Even the regular People-Baby Nursing Nipples will vary somewhat in their small particulars from brand to brand, or with differenced in the same brand even. But the general drill is still the same of course. Hope this helps! Phil Las Vegas Last edited by pdpbison; 26th September 2006 at 10:55 PM.
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#56
26th September 2006, 11:01 PM
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An even better line up of Nipples, all made from the same standard kind...
http://public.fotki.com/PhilBphil/baby_dove_-_july/ Love, Phil Las Vegas
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#57
27th September 2006, 07:15 AM
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Yup the nipple I'm using looks about the same as the one on the far right in that last link. Maybe a bit longer.
Just another question.. How long will he need to be on the heating pad? Starting lastnight the heating pad I'm currently using decided to go on the fritz.. I could barely sleep last night worrying that it was going to get too hot and burn the little guy or catch fire or something. I have it set on the lowest setting but it's getting too hot. Don't worry I'm replacing it TODAY! But I'll be glad when he no longer needs the heat. One little one is tiring enough for me. I don't know how you all do it with more than one. 
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#58
27th September 2006, 08:18 AM
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Phil, the last set of pics are just what I wanted to see. I've copied it for future use so many thanks. We didn't cut off anything and I believe that may have been part of the problem.
Lin, thank you for the link but it came up as "URL not found"?
__________________
Maggie
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#59
27th September 2006, 02:25 PM
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Hi-Raine,
My-space-bar-went-bad,so-I-have-to-use-dashes-for-now... At-some-point-in-their-"Quill-Baby"-phase-they-become-little-furnaces...and-their-Pigeon-parents-sit-on-them-less,then-stop-sitting-on-them-at-all...then-too-the-Babys-usually-have-a-sibling-to-cuddle-up-against... I-just-let-them-be-on-the-heating-pad-or-off-of-it-as-they-like-and-once-they-are-endothermic-they-tend-to-spend-more-and-more-time-off-of-the-pad. Glad-you-noticed-the-Heating-Pad-going-bad...! Yeeeeeeeesh...pretty-scary-stuff... Best-wishes-you-two! Phil Las-Vegas
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#60
27th September 2006, 05:49 PM
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Yeah I was a little paranoid about using that heating pad in the first place (It was an old one but it was all I had) So I checked the temp a gazillion times a day.
I got a new heating pad today so all is well. It still worries me to leave it on all the time. But it's only for a few more weeks.. I hope. Once he's able to somewhat regulate his own temp I'll switch to a hot water bottle. His pin feathers are coming in on his crop, wings and rear end now. It's like they came through overnight. I'm tempted to name him Spike now. LOL
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