Hubby brought home a baby pigeon.

[Raine]

Lastnight my hubby called me on his way home from work and told me he was bringing home a baby bird. During work (he's a roofer) they were removing an air conditioning unit from a roof and the nest was under it. Once they lifted and moved the unit they realized they had 'stepped' on or broke apart the nest. 2 other babies were dead only the one was alive and ok.

I'm keeping him warm on a heating pad covered with a bath towel and lined with paper towels to make it more nest-like. The handfeeding aspect is a little different than handfeeding my cockatiels. Getting him to hold still and opening his mouth was the most difficult part. But I'm getting the hang of it.

Also he's extremely active and chirping quite often. Is that normal? I'm worried I'm not feeding him enough but his crop is definitely not empty. I'd say it's just over half full.

This little one is young. Still covered in yellow down and his eye are not fully open. I'll attach a pic.. Any idea how old he is?

Any other tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[Raine]

Ok I just found a pic of a 4 day old pigeon that looks similar in age the this little guy and his crop was quite full. So I guess I answered my own question. That will teach me for not searching first. So I'm not feeding him enough at one time and that's why he's still chirping. Once his/her crop empties I'll feed him again and increase the amount.

[Pidgey]

Are you feeding him something like Kaytee Exact Hand Feeding Formula, mixed a tad on the thin side (instructions for that in the package)? That does work with pigeons although they usually grow a little more slowly in the beginning.

The behavior sounds pretty normal.

Pidgey

[Raine]

Thanks.. Good to know he's behaving normally.

Yup the Kaytee is what I'm feeding him. I don't have the package though for mixing instructions. The lady at the pet store just gave me a baggy full and told me to take a small amount and mix it thin but no too runny. Kind of a pea soup consistancy.

Actually I have another question.. During feeding he will refuse to take anymore even though his crop is nowhere near full. I usually give him a minute to rest and try again sometimes he will resume feeding and sometimes not. It just worries me because I don't want to aspirate him, but I don't want him to starve either. Would it be ok to just feed him small meals more frequently? Or should keep trying until his crop is full?

[Lady Tarheel]

Raine, welcome to the forum and many thanks to you and your husband for saving this little one.

We feed babies this size Kaytee Exact with about 1/2 tsp of plain yogurt or Benebac powder mixed in the formula. We usually mix it thinner than directions call for. Make sure it is mixed well because it has a tendency to swell until well mixed. He would need to be fed about 10 - 15 cc of formula about every 3 hours. Of course, make sure his crop has emptied. If you have problems with crop emptying try about 5 cc lukewarm water for one of the feedings. I have found though that the yogurt helps prevent crop emptying. He will need to be kept on the heating pad until feathers come in. We usually use a margarine sized container lined with tissue or pieces of paper towel. Also, we usually lay 1 - 2 tissues on top of them to help keep them warm.

There are many ways to feed these babies. One of our members, pdpbison (Phil) uses a nipple with good results so you can check out the many posts to find alternative ways. We've just stuck with our method over the years and have had good results.

I am envious - well, sorta. We've had so many this summer I've about reached my quota. They are so precious at that age.

[Raine]

Awesome thank you for the info! And thanks for the welcome!

10-15 cc's wow I've definitely been underfeeding him then. He usually loses interest after 4-5 cc's. But then within 10 minutes he chirping for more. It's like he's sleepy and wants a quick nap. I guess I'll try to keep him awake and get more formula into him.

I'm pretty sure I have some margarine containers. So I'll set him up in one with some paper towels.

As for feeding technique.. It's a learning process with him. He prefers to nibble at the syringe rather than open his mouth on his own. So I was advised by wildlife rescue to tube feed him. But I'd rather not do that if I can help it. So I've been gently opening his mouth and inserting the syringe with him facing me from the left side of his beak to the right being sure that I'm past his tongue and putting small amounts of formula in at a time and letting him swallow. Then he peeps for more and I repeat the procedure. It's a slow process but I don't mind. I'm used to my cockatiels that eat non stop until the syringe is empty. LOL

[Trees Gray]

Hello and thank you for taking in this little one.

You have already gotten information from our expert baby pigeon rehabbers, so I won't go there.

Just wanted to mention, looking at the picture, please make sure the baby has traction under him and is able to keep its legs well folded underneath him. If his legs come out from under him, he will develop splay legs.

You can put him in a cereal bowl lined in paper towels, one that fits snug but not too tight, this will help enable him to keep his feet and legs under him. A rough towel or rubbermaid kitchen cabinet liner also works to keep the traction.

[Raine]

Trees Gray, I moved him into a small margarine container lined with paper towels. I layed him in there and positioned the paper towels so that it's snug around him. The problem is he's been moving all over the place and climbing the paper towels.

I actually read here about using the baby bottle nipple. I'm going to try that at his next feeding.

Also I'm a bit worried about him. He's still very active and peeping for food etc. But I'm hearing the odd clicking sound, not everytime he breaths just here and there. God..I truly hope that I did not aspirate him.

Are there any other reasons why I could be hearing a clicking sound? Hubby said they did not see any adult birds up on the roof all day. So it possible that he just got chilled?

[Lin Hansen]

Welcome Raine, and thanks for helping this baby.

I've never had to feed a baby myself, and I too, would be a little apprehensive about tube feeding, though many of our member swear by it. It's supposed to be very fast and easy once you get the hang of it.

Myself, I would probably try one of the other various methods that members have used with success. I think the reason that it's been such tough going and such a slow process feeding this little guy is because pigeons don't "gape" and have the parents place the food in their mouth. Pigeons babies put their beaks into their parents mouths to get their food.

Here is a link that will show you or lead you to other links to show you the Balloon Method and the Baggie method...just click on the link:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=9682


And here is a link to a post showing Member Pdpbison's (Phil's) method of using a nipple made for human babies....he puts the formula in the nipple and the birds "digs in" to the nipple to eat the food:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showpo...26&postcount=1

As far as the clicking sound, I'm not sure whether that is a problem or not. I'd say if the bird is acting fine otherwise, then it may not be a problem....but, I'm sure others with more experience will be along to advise you on this.

Sorry I cannot be more helpful, but hopefully these links will give you some ideas for easier feeding.

Good luck and thanks again for helping this baby....thanks to Hubby too for being kind enough to rescue him.

Linda

[Pidgey]

That's a pretty small baby to be tube-feeding. I don't tube-feed anything that small at all--that's "let 'em suck it up on their own" country, as far as I'm concerned unless you've got the very-specialized stuff to do it with.

Pidgey

[Trees Gray]

Originally Posted by Raine

Also I'm a bit worried about him. He's still very active and peeping for food etc. But I'm hearing the odd clicking sound, not everytime he breaths just here and there. God..I truly hope that I did not aspirate him.

Are there any other reasons why I could be hearing a clicking sound? Hubby said they did not see any adult birds up on the roof all day. So it possible that he just got chilled?

We have another member who raised babies from the egg that also had the clicking sound, let me go find the thread:

Here it is, maybe this will help:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=16767

[TAWhatley]

Another possibility is simply that air has gotten into the crop during what is usually a pretty frenzied feeding session no matter which feeding method you use. If it's just excess air, it will self resolve.

Terry

[pdpbison]

Hi Raine,


This is sure one little cutie...!


Well, for one thing, it is extremely important that you keep this Baby "warm", and this means around 100 degrees, so that HE is that temperature.

If he starts panting, then it is too warm for him.

The impirical, is for what he is laying on to feel a little warmer than your wrist's underside, if you press it against the cloth he will be on, and keep it there for say 20 seconds or something.


I feed them from the 'hollow' side of a regular soft people-baby-bottle Nipple...

Just the Nipple, no 'Bottle'...

Their normal mode of eating is to insert their Beak into the throat of their parent...and the holow of the Nipple works well to provide a familiar, tactiley re-assureing, and easy method then...for them, and you.

For smaller Babys, I just use the 5/8ths of an inch or so cut-off 'end' of a Nipple, so it suits their Beak better...and of course one has to refill it as they gobble the contents from it.


If he becomes chilled, his system can slow and the food in his Crop can ferment from the delay, and make serious problems.


I can send you a pretty long sort of essay on Baby matters if you like, in the regular e-mail. Just write to me at

pdp1@earthlink.net


Food temp needs to be fairly close but slightly less than body temp...or, around 100 degrees thereabouts...if the formula feels the 'same' as the underside of your wrist, then it is right...meaning, it will feel like no temperature at all.

Absolutely do not use a microwave to warm food for him.

Use a soucepan with some water in it,. warm the Water on the Stove, warm the little bowl of formula in the Warm Water.

Refridgerate made-up formula between uses, or better yet, freeze between uses.

Make new every day if refrigerated, or make new every three days if freezing between uses.


Your description suggests that he does not like the food you are offering...and or does not like it's temperature or consistancy.

Most Pigeon Babys are fairly easy to please...so, if they are not eager, something is pretty far off.

Otherwise, they will certainly be assertive and enthusiastic, and will wish to be stuffed at each mealtime...then to nap.

Most Pigeon Babys will keep asking to be fed, even if you just stuffed them. So, one just says to them, "You are stuffed now...time for sleep!"

And, either let them nap foir a while in 'Hand Nest', or in the front of your shirt next to your stomach, or back in their 'Peeper Warm House' Nest you have made for them.


Lol...

His little actual 'Nest' should be shallow so he can poop over the edge of it.

If he is not able to poop over the side of his Nest, he will be frustrated.

So..

Take a cardboard box that is about say 11 or 12 inches wide and about that much deep, and set it on it's side, so the flaps face 'out'. A box about one foot 'square' I mean.

Put an electric Heating pad in it...and set a small white Towell on the heating pad.

On that, set your shallow pan or cake pan or little tray or something having no more than an inch high sides...

Line that with some soft Tee-Shirt material or similar cloth, but not too deeply, just enough for some softness.

The Baby goes into this 'nest'...

Adjust the Heating pad setting, and or add another towell on it, so that when you press the underside of your wrist against the actual center of the 'Nest' itself then, it will feel just slightly 'warm'...keep your wrist pressed against it for 20 seconds or so to be sure.

Make sure the Heating pad has been on at it's present setting for ten minutes or so to test this. If you need to make any adjustments, then let them stabalize before testing.

The Box on it's side, with this arrangement in it, then is situated on a small Table or desk or something a couple feet square or more...and more is fine, too...but lay down a large towell as a table cloth first, then set up the 'Warm House' on it so there is plenty of room in front of it. This wil be his front yard or Lawn area.


On the open side, the bottom flap of cardboard should be flat against the tablecloth, and the Heating Pad small towell can extend over this...and have the side flaps slightly in, and the top flap then rests on them...over this 'Cave' entrance then, drape some thin cloth from the top, leaving an inch or so gap at the bottom if you like.


This then keeps him warm, and when you wish to feed him, you just reach in and bring out the 'nest' part with him in it.

As he grows, he will come trundleing out at feed times, and he will go back in on his own after feeding...or as he likes.

As he gets older he will come out and lay around on the 'Lawn', on the towell area in front of his House.

There is no need to restrain a Baby Pigeon, aside from provideing them with this arrangement. They will not go anywhere, but they do need somewhere which for them, makes 'sense' to stay 'in'...and has some amenities to enjoy.

This fits the bill for them.

For now, I would add a few drops of Raw Apple cider Vinegar to his formula, or plain cider Vinegar if that is all you have handy.

He may be starting to get some yeast or Candida problems from prior chill episodes, which are slowing his Crop...so, rather than wait, start that now...and make sure his formula and HIM, are rightly warm...

Offer him body temp Water also between meals, or any time his Crop is getting 'firm' instead of squishy.


Best wishes!

Phil
Las Vegas

[Raine]

Thanks all. No no I didn't tube feed him I was just using a feeding syringe and opening his mouth. He hated it.. so I started using the baby bottle nipple last night and it's sooo much easier. I no longer have to fight to feed him, I just direct his beak into the nipple and he gobbles it up. The nipple I'm using is a small one off of a baby bottle for kittens.

Only thing I've noticed with this method is that he's only taking 1-2 cc's at a time and then goes to sleep. Usually all I have to do is touch his beak to initiate a feeding response.. But when he's done he's done and just turns his head to the side, peeps and goes back to sleep. So every hour and a half to two hours he needs to be fed again. His crop is fairly full after a feeding but he does have some air in there now. I tried to burp him gently and I did get some out. But I think the air is making him feel fuller than he actually is.

Also his crop is soft and squishy, not firm. No problems emptying so far other than the air trapped in there. I do warm the formula to my wrist temp and make it runny. Maybe not runny enough? What thickness should it be for his age? As for the heating pad it's keeping him warm to the touch.

Thanks for the info on the 'nest'. I lined the container with paper towels and made a little pocket for him to lay in. I thought it needed to litterally be 'nest like'. I'll get on that today and make him something different. But it needs to be secure not because of him but my dogs. I have 2 Saint Bernards. One in particular is a little too interested in him. Right now I have the heating pad and his 'nest' on the bottom of a smallish bird cage with the top on it so no nosey doggy noses can get near him. Even placing the cage on the kitchen counter my dogs can reach, heck they can reach on top of the fridge. So his 'home' needs to be secure and portable would be nice since I do move him upstairs or downstairs with me. As he grows and needs more room I was just going to get a larger bird cage or even one of those large rectangular rabbit cages with the plastic bottom. If we decide to keep him then we will built him a large flight type cage.

Ok maybe I'm a tad overprotective.. LOL I'm just so attached to him already.

Phil I'm emailing you now for the baby info. Thanks.

Thanks all for the help and info. I'm sure I'll be posting tons more questions.

[Raine]

Phil that was me that emailed you. I'm not sure why you didn't see any text. Maybe the font I used? I emailed you back using a normal font. I was hoping you could send me the baby info.

Just a little update.. I used a thermometer to test the temp of the formula and it was in fact too cool. I upped the temp using a bowl of hot water and he just finished eating close to 6 cc's. That's the first time I've got him to eat that much at once. I'm definitely relieved.

Before feeding I also managed to burp most of the air out of him. Since he was empty food wise it I didn't have to worry about pushing any food up. I'll just have to burp him before each feeding. He had a fair amount of air in there. Is that normal? I never really had that problem too much with my cockatiels.