Rescued a pigeon out of the street. Its bleeding. I have no idea what I am doing!??!

[Pidgey]

Besides warming up, it sometimes takes awhile before they get over the shock of the new surroundings to eat. Just out of curiosity, when you picked the bird up did it feel like a lot of solid muscle or more like a too-light sack of sticks? If the answer to that question doesn't just jump out at you then did the "keel" (the breastbone--a meat cleaver-shaped bone that runs the length of the chest) feel like it was protruding such that you could pinch it in your fingers and hold the bird that way or does it feel like there is some or plenty of muscle on either side?

Pidgey

[Pidgey]

You know, it wouldn't hurt to feel the joints of the wing and see if there is any swelling anywhere. You can compare the one wing joints to the other. This might seem like an odd question but can you describe the color of the blood that you've seen--is it a browner color or is it a really bright red?

Pidgey

[pigeonperson]

Kelly,
If this is self stick tape, then wrap the injured wing around a couple of times before wrapping both wings around a couple of times.
This may be a young bird, under 5-6 weeks of age and he may not know how to eat on his own. I hope you can get a picture of this bird up.

[mr squeaks]

Just my opinion, but there seem to be many questions not answered - yet -about this bird. Shouldn't some of these questions be addressed before doing a lot of wing taping (binding)?

- WHERE is the wound?
- IS it still bleeding?
- IS the wing actually broken or is the wound in the body itself? A puncture?
- ANY poops? if so, WHAT do the poops look like?

- Also, wouldn't hurt to check inside his mouth for possible evidence of canker.

Of course, if information has been obtained that isn't in this thread, then the above may be moot.

[AZWhitefeather]

The question was asked as to the amount of blood. Kelly replied:

Originally Posted by Kelly5303

Not a lot. It was in a box with white paper in it so I noticed the blood on the paper. It isn't drips. It is more like thin swipes.

Originally Posted by pigeonperson

This is going to be rough without any medications or even the ability to properly stop bleeding. I want you to get a very adhesive tape like duct and tear off a strip.

Have somebody hold both wings together so that the long flight feathers on one wing are exactly aligned with the flight feathers on the other wing and touching each other.
* Wrap the tape around both wings in the back so they are taped together.
This is to immobilize the wing to try and stop the bleeding.
Whether it's broken or not, the wing still has to be immobilized for three weeks.

As far as I know, there hasn't been a complete exam done on this bird so we really have no idea what's going on.

* I'm confused as to why you would suggest taping the birds wings together, behind it's back, for three weeks to control the bleeding, when there is very little bleeding taking place.

One of my concerns is, the bird already has a balance problem (falling forward). I would think by taping it's wings together behind it's back will further enhance this problem.

Cindy

[pigeonperson]

Cindy,
This is immediate first aid. That is not the right way of fixing a shoulder in place if it's broken but Kelly said she cannot get the bird to a vet. If she could get the bird to a rehabber, it would have been repaired the right way.

I wasn't about to talk about the figure 8 taping of a wing when Kelly doesn't know how to do it nor does she know that birds don't have diaghragms and tightening the tape could inhibit breathing. If the shoulder is not broken, this method is good enough to stop bleeding and allow healing to take place.

The first thing to do is stop bleeding. If the wing is allowed to move, bleeding might continue. After that, a better evaluation could be done. If Kelly can't get to a rehabber or a vet, then what would you have suggested? She can't get an X-Ray. She doesn't have any idea what the underside looks like. She doesn't know if the bone is broken or if there is bone exposure. She can't stop the bleeding with a clotting agent because she doesn't have the right one plus, you can't put a clotting agent into an open, deep wound. By a vet, bleeding could be controlled with hemostats, electrocauterization and suturing under anesthesia. Can Kelly do that? I can't even do that. She can't suture and in that area, sutures are very hard to hold because the skin is very, very thin. There is a huge bone in the shoulder and if it's broken in half, a pin could be put in to fix it in place so Kelly might have a tiger by the tail. She doesn't have the antibiotics that would be needed. This is a first time for her so if you have better suggestions for a first timer to stop bleeding and stabilize the wing, then please post them.

This would have been the only thing she could do until the bird could be properly evaluated and if it can't, then what else could be done?. The bird is falling over and Kelly isn't in a position to tell if the bird is concussed. We know nothing but that bleeding had to be stopped. The skin could be ripped wide open and the small bleed would not point to that fact. They don't bleed that much under the shoulder so it belies what kind of rip could be there. I'll stick to my original suggestion to immobilize the wing the way I suggested.

[Pidgey]

I got one once (still have him) who had a burst Paratyphoid boil on the elbow that bled a little bit. That's why I asked about the color of the blood and to feel the wing joints to see if they felt normal. I also got a hawk-hit bird once that had the smallest puncture in the trunk that died within 24 hours, probably due to internal hemorrhaging. It didn't bleed much, though, but the blood was bright red.

Pidgey

[cyro51]

Hi Kelly,

I think you are wonderful for rescuing the pigeon even though you thought it might carry a disease. So many people walk by.

I heard something about using the tape that sticks to itself that is made out of what looks like cheese cloth instead of duct tape.

That is what I use, it doesn't damage the feathers like duct tape would.

I just wrap it round the body and wing once. That immobilises the wing enough to prevent damage to the soft tissues.

You have to stabilise the fracture without completely immobilising the wing joint, because immobilisation of the joint can cause the joint to ankylose which would prevent the bird from regaining flight.

And don't despair! I have had a pigeon with a broken bone sticking out of the "armpit" area and it regained flight.

Cindy is right to be concerned about the pigeon's health, it sounds as if it has something other than the wing affecting it. It is often the sick and/or weak pigeons that get hit by traffic.


Cynthia

[AZWhitefeather]

Originally Posted by pigeonperson

Cindy,
* This is immediate first aid. That is not the right way of fixing a shoulder in place if it's broken but Kelly said she cannot get the bird to a vet. If she could get the bird to a rehabber, it would have been repaired the right way.

I wasn't about to talk about the figure 8 taping of a wing when Kelly doesn't know how to do it nor does she know that birds don't have diaghragms and tightening the tape could inhibit breathing. If the shoulder is not broken,
** this method is good enough to stop bleeding and allow healing to take place.

*** The first thing to do is stop bleeding. If the wing is allowed to move, bleeding might continue. After that, a better evaluation could be done.

**** If Kelly can't get to a rehabber or a vet, then what would you have suggested?

She can't get an X-Ray.
*** ** She doesn't have any idea what the underside looks like. She doesn't know if the bone is broken or if there is bone exposure.

*** *** This is a first time for her so if you have better suggestions for a first timer to stop bleeding and stabilize the wing, then please post them.

This would have been the only thing she could do until the bird could be properly evaluated and if it can't, then what else could be done?.

The bird is falling over and Kelly isn't in a position to tell if the bird is concussed. We know nothing but that bleeding had to be stopped. The skin could be ripped wide open and the small bleed would not point to that fact. They don't bleed that much under the shoulder so it belies what kind of rip could be there.
I'll stick to my original suggestion to immobilize the wing the way I suggested.

* Kelly described the amount of blood as 'not a lot' & it wasn't dripping. I would interpret that as 'not bleeding profusely' or being 'life threatening'.

** At the time of your posting, very little information had been obtained about the bird. What we did know was the bird was fluffed, falling forward, a small amount of blood had been seen & the wings seemed to be aligned properly.
Yes, the small amount of blood & possible wing injury is a concern. However, the fact that the bird was falling forward indicated to me he was severely dehydrated, starving or possibly even had a concussion. Addressing those possibilities would be my first priority.

*** Since there was very little blood & we are dealing with an external issue, the first thing to do would be to find out exactly where the blood was coming from, what type of wound we were dealing with & treat accordingly. This being done after the bird had been stabilized.

**** Initially, exactly what I did suggest. Follow the basic life saving steps. Get the bird stabilized.

*** ** Excellent case in point. If Kelly has no idea what the underside looks like, we certainly don't, so how can we make rational suggestions on what should or shouldn't be done when we have no idea what's going on?

What would the prognosis be if the wings were taped, without having done a complete exam, left for the three weeks that you recommended & there was a compound fracture that hadn't been detected or a puncture wound that was filled with debris?

*** *** First & foremost, I would recommend stabilizing the patient. I would post the link to the basic life saving steps as a guide.
Once the bird is stabilized, I would suggest examining the bird completely. Post back the findings & then suggest treatment accordingly.

Unlike internal issues, we have the ability to examine a bird externally. With that said, I disagree with making blind suggestions. If the situation is 'life threatening', then we do what we have to.

We all have our individual thoughts & these are mine, as you asked for.

Cindy

Kelly,
How is the bird doing?

[pigeonperson]

Cindy,
I just wanted to stop the bleed. That's the first priority in giving first aid. I didn't go any further than that. I didn't misspeak about the tape being on for three weeks. That would have been ok if there were no break but again, the first thing to do in first aid is to stop the bleeding and then go further with an evaluation of what is going on and I don't know what else is going on with this bird.

My experience has been that birds that are falling over usually don't survive because it's a sign of concussion and bleeding into the brain. That didn't stop me from trying to give advice about the bleeding. For all we know, the bird is gone already.

I agree with you completely about giving first aid to a bird. Stop the bleed, keep warm, hydrate, let it rest and worry about everything else afterwards. Maybe I didn't cover everything. I know I didn't but what advice is there to give when Kelly didn't come on for the rest of it? What is the sense of discussing a corticosteroid shot to try to help the brain if Kelly can't get to a vet? Things like that but we never got beyond the initial wing injury.

As far as making blind statements, this wasn't a blind statement. You want the bird stabilized. How do you stabilize a bird unless you stem bleeding and immobilize the injury to prevent it from continuing to bleed on and off? Do you know what shock is and what happens in a shock condition? Shock occurs when there is so much loss of blood, the blood pressure drops. The body shunts the blood away from the organs and sends it to the lungs and brain. The extremities get cold and pan organ breakdown occurs. How much blood was going into the wound that wasn't seen? How much bleeding was there before Kelly got the bird? I don't ever want to hear from anyone that the bleeding doesn't have to be stopped first before doing anything else. Sure, Kelly said that there was just a trickle. Did it dawn on you that the blood pressure was so low, there was no bleeding left to be done? It sure dawned on me but I'm a pigeon rehabilitator so I have to know these things.

Kelly said she wasn't going to take the bird to a vet so what else was there to do other than taping the wing and hope for the best. Don't shoot the messenger and frankly, anybody who doesn't know that the first priority in giving first aid is to stop bleeding should not be handling any living creature. You stop it with pressure. You stop it with sutures. You stop it with cauterization. You stop it by tying off blood vessels but you have got to stop it and that's called stabilizing the bird.

[Kelly5303]

Hello all,
The pigeon stayed in the house over night. It had food and water available to it however, I didn't witness it eat or drink. It mainly stays in one place but it will move away if aproached. It does not seem to have any balance problems to me. I don't think it can fly, though. It does flap its wings while jumping short distances. After flapping its wings it seems to hold the one wing slightly out and upward for a while before getting it back into the same position as the other wing. It is no longer bleeding. The bird doesn't seem or feel feeble, weak, or starved to me. I believe someone asked about the poo and it has pooed several times throughout the night and day. It is yellow liquid with dark solid chunks in it. The dried ones have white in them as well. It looks like pretty regular bird poop to me.

There are no protruding bones but, I do feel that there is something wrong with the wing. I know I probably should have already tried to examine the cone structure, but I don't want to hurt it. Should I try to let it stand and examine? or lay it on its back with someone elses help holding it down? There is a little dried blood on its chest should I try to wipe this off or would it be like picking its scab?

[KIPPY]

or lay it on its back with someone elses help holding it down?

No, from what I remember you are to never put a pigeon on it's back

[canaryjayne]

Kelly, Im new to this site, dont know too much, but I think you have to make sure your pigeon has some water and seed fairly soon. Maybe you could wrap the pigeon in a towel and when he is calm give him abit of bread soaked in water. Open the beak and place well down the back of his throat. Dont worry about examining him, food and water and remaing warm is essential. Hopefully someone more experienced will reply soon. Thank you so much for caring. Canryjayne from UK

[KIPPY]

Sorry, I'm not much help. I just wanted to quickly post that before you tried it.

Someone should be along shortly.

[Pidgey]

Originally Posted by Kelly5303

It is yellow liquid with dark solid chunks in it. The dried ones have white in them as well. It looks like pretty regular bird poop to me.

There are no protruding bones but, I do feel that there is something wrong with the wing. I know I probably should have already tried to examine the cone structure, but I don't want to hurt it. Should I try to let it stand and examine? or lay it on its back with someone elses help holding it down? There is a little dried blood on its chest should I try to wipe this off or would it be like picking its scab?

1) Tell us a little more about the yellow liquid: Is there a lot? Is it almost clear with a yellowish tinge or is it like chalky yellow and opaque? Does the white part look REALLY white, or is it yellowish?

2) Just let the bird stand naturally and feel the joints of the wing and compare one side to the other--do you feel any swelling on the bad wing?

3) Don't worry about the dried blood--the bird will take care of it in time all on its own.

Pidgey