Saved a Pigeon and he hates me!

[Teot]

Hi!
I found yer forum to be very interesting and helpful. Last month when I was coming back home, I found a pigeon huddled near my building entrance. He would not fly away, walk away or anything. I love birds and it just hurt my heart to see him like that. So I picked him up WITHOUT any fights. I told myself at least if he is dying, he can die in some warmth since it was -10C here and windy. So I put him in my deceased cockatiel's cage with some cereal in a bowl and water in another. He would not eat righ but I used a drop measure thing to gave him water and he drank a LOT. A few days later he began to eat and drink on his own. I don't believe in caging a bird unless they go in by themselves to sleep (same with my cockatiel, he was always out and only slept in his cage). The pigeon (Pidjy Potato his name now) is now been with me for over a month, he doesn't really fly but is always practicing to fly. He flaps a lot while he's out all day with me in my room. He's curious, healthy, and loves his own reflection. His poop is of healthy color, he's well fed. but everytime I go near him, he coos loudly and hits me with his wings. He doesn't like me. I tried feeding him off my hands and he is still weary. Is there a way I can gain his trust? I noticed he CAN fly but short short distances. Is he lazy? he chooses to jump and not make it half the time. I want to release him but not during the winter time. I will most likely let him go (if all goes well) in about 4 months. But if he can't fly, how can I try and get him to understand I am not an enemy?

[Garye]

You probably can't. I also found a pigeon with a hurt wing. I took her home (name's Maggie) and after a while she got used to her new home. She can't fly but always tries to. But she still does not trust me. But I noticed lately that she seems to be getting more comfortable with her new home. Today for the first time, I saw her use her bed that I made for her, snuggling up in it like it was a nest. This is the first time she did it since I had her and it's been at least 3 months now. She is now getting used to me cleaning her cage and putting in food for her but it took a long time. If I push too hard on her, she snaps at me. Maybe in time she'll trust me more but I don't count on it. She was so used to being free with the other ferals that I doubt she'll ever be completely tame.

I too would like to release her if she was able to fly and make it on her own but I don't think that's going to be a possibility in her case.

Sounds like to me you've got a male. Maybe in time he'll get more used to you and calm down. I'd put him in a cage though and just let him out for short sprees around the place once in a while. He'll probably feel more protected in a cage, believe it or not, because he'll know it's "his" place not yours. That way he'll feel protected from you.

[maryjane]

Hi, thanks for taking this pigeon. This is very typical behavior of a teenage pigeon. . .usually a male, but not always. You probably found him when he was just out of the nest, as they appear to be adults when they are still very young. Now he is hitting his rebellious months. It's similar to a teenager asserting their independence with a parent. Don't take it personally at all. You might get him a stuffed toy to take out his "aggression" on. If you do release him, definitely wait until at least spring. Keep in mind he may not want to leave; many of them do decide to stay and that's that. Good luck and feel free to ask any questions you might have.

[ryannon]

Consider yourself lucky: Poopzilla has bonded to me as if he's made out of SuperGlue. Do you really want to live with a pigeon who, for instance, gets depressed because he can't sleep with you? Of course, this doesn't prevent him from giving me a good peck or a satisfying bite when he's in the mood, either.

In the end, you give in - just like you give in to all his pigeon logic-driven desires. If you don't have a very strong personality yourself, this could be the end of your life as you've lived it before.

Looking at it all from another perspective, you're probably the first human being who has shown any kindness to this bird. As a line from the film Birdy goes, "Pigeons ain't stupid, Al!"

In my conversations with Poopzilla and many other pigeons that I've taken in and helped before him, I've learned that birds in general literally 'look down' on us humans as being violent, unjust, dirty and dumb. Worse still, we don't even know how to fly.

From our side of the fence, most humans are at best indifferent, and at worst cruel to pigeons - not to mention to each other. Pigeons grow up knowing this, and when the rare kind-hearted soul comes along, they're often little-disposed to think that his or her intentions are really good.

It could take months or even years for you to build up a bond of confidence and trust between you - and this is probably not going to happen, since I believe that your intention (which is correct with a feral of this type) is to release him once the weather improves and he's back in good shape.

In the meantime, enjoy your time together: whether this guy melts with love everytime he sees you or growls like a dog and tries to bite the hand that's feeding him, you'll learn a lot and have great fun. Whatever he does, he's being honest and simply obeying what he thinks he knows about you (as a generic human) as well as his instincts.

And you should never doubt that deep down, he knows that you've saved his life. As for you, you've done the most important thing a human can do for one of God's creatures: you've offered your help and compassion.

May the same be offered to you in your time of need.

[Trees Gray]

Hello and Welcome to Pigeon Talk,

Thank you for rescuing this youngster.

As mentioned this probably is a youngster just learning to fly, if you can post a picture of him we can determine that better.

Sounds like he considers you an equal and with that they DO become territorial. Take it as a compliment and he will mellow, hopefully in time.

You can feed him a good dove or pigeon mix that includes legumes, seeds and grains, it will supply his nutrtional needs.

[mr squeaks]

I think Ryannon is right on!

I, too, have a cock pigeon, a former racing homer. I found him as a squeaker (about 30 days old) with a badly broken wing. Due to a partial amputation, he cannot be released and now lives in my apartment with me and 3 cats. He rules us all with an iron beak!

Mr. Squeaks is ATTITUDE personified!

Since I am his "mate," he is all lovey dovey in mate mode. When he goes into daddy mode and decides to egg sit on his wooden egg in his nesting basket, he becomes a changed pij! No more "Mr. Love Dove" for him! I get wing kung fu and beak bitten - hard!

Living with fur and feathers is a never ending learning adventure. Mr. Squeaks changed my whole life...bless his sharp pointy beak! Wouldn't trade him for nothin'!!

Shi - "Ms. Furred and Feathered!"

[pdpbison]

Originally Posted by ryannon

As a line from the film Birdy goes, "Pigeons ain't stupid, Al!"

Hi ryannon...


A rather obscure reference, of a Movie I happen to like quite a bit.

Nice to be reminded of that old film again, I had not thought of it in a while.




Hey Teot,


One thing you could do, is to have his Seeds only in a little Bowl or Cup, and, every day, for a little while, present the Cup where he can walk some little ways over to it, and, 'peck' with him useing your crook'd index finger...even start 'pecking' first, and tell him he is welcome to join you.

Do that for a few minutes, and withdraw then, and leave it to him to have the Seeds all to himself.

Repeat every time you feed him.


He will possibly try and bully you 'out' by pecking you or Wing Slapping your Hand and so on, but, ignore it, and, just gently keep 'pecking', and, soon he will just peck too...or, he will gradually lessen his 'attacks' to your hand, and, after a little while, he will just saunter over and peck allong side of your 'pecking' hand/finger...


Once he accepts that you are not going to be a 'Seed Hog' or a Bully who will try and repulse him so you get all the Seeds, he will soften his outlook about you, to some degree or other.


Once that phase is established, while 'pecking' along with him, you can gently add another step, being, "Who's got a Tummy???"


While you both are 'pecking', slowly, gently reach over with your 'pecking' index finger that is not 'pecking' now, and softly rub the lower area of his Crop or Keel...far enough down there so he does not 'see' the finger touching him...and, if you like, you can quiry -


"Who's got a Tummy??? YOU'VE got-a-Tummy!" or any thing you like...


Lol...


And, soon enough, he will let you do this, and, he will pause from eating and sort of stand there a little dreamy or introspective, and relaxed...and...


After you two have that nicely enough as a routine you have done for a few weeks, you can add...

"Big Hugs"...


Keeping your hands "low", slowly, gently cup his shoulders and Wings between them, from below...and, squeeze...not too hard of course, but substantially for what in his scale, will feel nice...do that for a second or two, and slowly release, and lower you hands...

After a while of this being common...he will very possibly not only like it, but look disappointed when after five or six rounds of it, you happen to stop.

Too, once you and he are 'pecking' together, it is a very small step to offering Seeds in your hand, even commenting or hamming it up a little, as you do so, about how 'Good' they are, and, slowly placing your Seeds-in-Palm Hand in front of him a little ways, so he can walk over to it...

He needs things to be in his terms, and, while he may never become a 'Cuddle Bug', he will likely find it pleasant to be a pal, and, to feel respected...so, don't pick him up unless you have to...and if you do pick him up, keep him always "level", cup opne hand over his Head, and the other hand, under his Feet...and, once done with whatever, place him 'back' exactly where you got him, every time.



Have fun...


Phil
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[ryannon]

Originally Posted by pdpbison

He needs things to be in his terms, and, while he may never become a 'Cuddle Bug', he will likely find it pleasant to be a pal, and, to feel respected...so, don't pick him up unless you have to...and if you do pick him up, keep him always "level", cup opne hand over his Head, and the other hand, under his Feet...and, once done with whatever, place him 'back' exactly where you got him, every time.
Phil
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Glad you appreciated the quote from Birdy, Phil...it remains a wonderful film.

I'm curious about what you've just stated above, about picking up and replacing a pigeon exactly where you've found him every time.

Would you care to elaborate on this? I can see some good reasons in terms of pigeon logic and even in human logic, but I'd really like to read your take on the matter. Does it have to do with the bird's feelings, dignity or sense of orientation - or is it connected with the idea of animals not being conisidered as objects suject to our whims and caprices - or a combinaton of the above? Please let us know!

By the way, I'm hoping that the book I mailed to you will finally show up. It might have gotten delayed in the Christmas rush, and in retrospect, I regret not having sent it as registered mail: unfortunately, people will steal just about anything these days. Still hoping it makes it though...

[pdpbison]

Hi ryannon,



I am running 'late' on getting 'PZ's goodies gathered and 'out'...ohhhh, sorry, be soon though, 'soon'...


The thing about putting them back at the same place or spot one picked them up from...uhhhhh, I dunno how to justify it exactly, but I have seen it makes a big difference to them, or some difference anyway, whether big or not.


Maybe, they figure 'Well...okay, he picked me up, and, now that I am back doen where I was, looks like nothing happenned but for being held and fussed with a little bit...hmmmm, not too bad..."


Or something...


I have seen that they like it better, anyway, having it that way.


Ooops, gotta run...be back later...!


Phil
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[ryannon]

I'd say it depends on the pij and one's relationship with it.

There are moments when my guy seems to want to be gently picked up and moved to a place where we can have some quality time together (which basically means either he allowing me to scritch him, or me allowing him to try to tear off a finger or two

But on another level, I began to become conscious (I think, anyway) of what it must mean to a pigeon (and perhaps most birds) to have someone messing up their most precious capital: their feathers!

Think of all the time they devote to preening themselves - which is essentially making sure that each one of their thousands of feathers is clean and exactly where they want it to be - after all, flying depends on this.

Imagine you've just fine-tuned your own private plane, and some clown comes along and starts mucking around with the flaps, the rudder, the propeller pitch and so on - you get the picture, right?

It must be infuriating for these birds to have their delicate and carefully-arranged flight systems compressed, crushed, mussed and tangled.

Reason enough to keep one's paws off them - except, as I mentioned above -when you've reached enough of a working relationship for them to know that your not going to damage their most valuable physical asset.

My two cents.

Other opinions always welcome!

[pdpbison]

Hi ryannon,




Oh yes...I am confident that their keen sense of balance is very easily offended when we pick them up, and that the insult to their balance is some important part of their objections to being held.


Some very tame Pigeons, well, you can turn them on their backs, massage each Leg and Foot and Toe and so on, pull their Wings to full extention and massage the 'arms' and so on, pull their Head way out and massage the full length of their Neck, and they are very unresisting and enjoy the experience.


I am dealing of course with ferals who are only here for some weeks or months...or, with those non-releaseables or 'Floor Birds' who while used to the situation here, and happy, do not necessarily relinquish their old instincts and warys, just because they know me by now.


Babys I have raised, once nearing young adulthood, I can still get away with a lot without them minding...

Old Birds, here from some mishap or injury, prefer to be treated with a lot more deference.


I have found that in any initial pick up of a feral I find injured or ill out in the World, that how I make sure to hold them softly and "level" makes a great difference...any little 'tilt' and they struggle...not so much to escape my hold, but, struggle to have their instincts for balance and trim, being insulted or conflicted by being tilted, even tilted just a little bit...


Keeping them level in their terms, not tilted fore or aft or to the side, and, I can hold or carry them with very gentle hands...one hand under their Feet, one softly cupped over their Head. So they are really standing on my palm, with my other Hand cupped over their Head.


Anyway, the 'Floor Birds' here, ex-ferals, non fliers from injury...these Pigeons remain rather wild and wiley and wary, but for their being accepting of the scene and milieu here...

Some after a while, will let me pick them up, but they are nervous about it and prefer it be brief.

If I want to pick one up for something, maybe just for some social time in 'Lap Towell Cave', and then an exam maybe, I always ask them if I may pick them up, and tell them what I have in mind, and, they either in effect say "Okay", and stand there and let me pick them up...or, they instantly run away...


Lol...


But it seems to me that either way, once I am done, that the more 'wild' they are, they like it best being set down where I had found them.


The tamer of friendlier ones, come up to me for various things, or come up to me as I sit here, asking to be picked up and visited with, and these do not mind where I set them if I had picked them up...


Phil
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