Shame Of Pennsylvania

[Charis]

Originally Posted by SmithFamilyLoft

The fact that some person or group asks for donations, does not mean that live bird shoots still exist either. Some groups you mention are far from creditable.

I live right here in Pa., and we are very aware that many of our pigeons are shipped to NYC to be eaten !!

I also belong to a so called "Gun Club"...here in Pa. all I am asking, is give me a name and location of one of these shooting clubs where they pay $3 to $10 per pigeon to shoot at !?

The dirty little secret is, they are being eaten, not shot and thrown away !

All I have seen up to this point on the sites you listed, are old historic film footage and groups asking for money to help stop the killing. When under Pa. Law, these events are already illegal. You say these are creditable sites, just wondering how you draw that conclusion ? From what I have seen, they are being intellectually dishonest and attempting to profit from old shocking film footage.

Throw up a cheap web site, put up some old shocking file footage...and while the people are still in shock, hopefully collect $10 or $20from them while they are still in tears. Do this a few hundred times a week, and you have a nice little second income. Sorry, I don't buy it, and I am offended that this lie of "Shooting Clubs in Pa." is being repeated without any evidence. We effectly put this practice out of business in this state years ago, and people and groups mostly outside the state, are still trying to make money from it.

http://www.hsus.org/press_and_public...ot_072808.html
Warren, there is a media contact on the link above. It would be so great if you could call the Humane Society of the United States and get to the bottom of this once and for all. My feeling is that the HSUS has a lot to do without making things up, especially things that have to do with cruelty toward pigeons, but I could be wrong. There just isn't that much interest.
In a resent book about pigeons, I do seem to recall the author did attend one of those shoots in your state and describes it in some detail in his book. I didn't have the stomach to read it all the way through but the time frame must have been in 2004-2005.[ Sorry I don't have the name of the book or author but I have loaned it out and am not in the mood to google the exact title.]

[AZWhitefeather]

Originally Posted by Charis

http://www.hsus.org/press_and_public...ot_072808.html
Warren, there is a media contact on the link above. It would be so great if you could call the Humane Society of the United States and get to the bottom of this once and for all. My feeling is that the HSUS has a lot to do without making things up, especially things that have to do with cruelty toward pigeons, but I could be wrong. There just isn't that much interest.

* In a resent book about pigeons, I do seem to recall the author did attend one of those shoots in your state and describes it in some detail in his book. I didn't have the stomach to read it all the way through but the time frame must have been in 2004-2005.
** [ Sorry I don't have the name of the book or author but I have loaned it out and am not in the mood to google the exact title.]

* Yes it was PA. Apparently there are or were several PA gun clubs enjoying this 'sport'.

** Book title: Pigeons, The Facinating Saga of the World's Most Revered and Reviled Bird.
Author: Andrew D. Blechman

Cindy

[SmithFamilyLoft]

Originally Posted by Charis

http://www.hsus.org/press_and_public...ot_072808.html
Warren, there is a media contact on the link above. It would be so great if you could call the Humane Society of the United States and get to the bottom of this once and for all. My feeling is that the HSUS has a lot to do without making things up, especially things that have to do with cruelty toward pigeons, but I could be wrong. There just isn't that much interest.
In a resent book about pigeons, I do seem to recall the author did attend one of those shoots in your state and describes it in some detail in his book. I didn't have the stomach to read it all the way through but the time frame must have been in 2004-2005.[ Sorry I don't have the name of the book or author but I have loaned it out and am not in the mood to google the exact title.]

I am sorry in advance if I am mistaken. But, August has come and gone, and I suspect that no one was able to collect on any $2500 reward. Don't know how some event involving thousands of pigeons and people could take place, and no one knows anything about it.

The last "live shoot" I am aware of, which was a "Turkey Shoot" got the public and media in one heck of an uproar, along with the SPCA and fines !
There has been such negative publicy from these events, that no one has any interest in them.

I also suspect that the HSUS had no real expectation of ever paying out any kind of a reward. I suspect they did so to generate publicity for themselves and their cause. If they had information to the contrary then all they had to do was pick up the phone to the Pa. SPCA and they could have sent out any number of under cover operatives. Heck as a gun toting target shooter I would go myself, but with the expectation of getting arrested myself, as I would want to insure that the media and the police were called to make sure it all shows up on the 11 o'clock news.

Get all fired up if it makes you feel better....but if it is still happening, it must be one of the best kept secrets in Pa.

[Charis]

Originally Posted by SmithFamilyLoft

I am sorry in advance if I am mistaken. But, August has come and gone, and I suspect that no one was able to collect on any $2500 reward. Don't know how some event involving thousands of pigeons and people could take place, and no one knows anything about it.

The last "live shoot" I am aware of, which was a "Turkey Shoot" got the public and media in one heck of an uproar, along with the SPCA and fines !
There has been such negative publicy from these events, that no one has any interest in them.

I also suspect that the HSUS had no real expectation of ever paying out any kind of a reward. I suspect they did so to generate publicity for themselves and their cause. If they had information to the contrary then all they had to do was pick up the phone to the Pa. SPCA and they could have sent out any number of under cover operatives. Heck as a gun toting target shooter I would go myself, but with the expectation of getting arrested myself, as I would want to insure that the media and the police were called to make sure it all shows up on the 11 o'clock news.

Get all fired up if it makes you feel better....but if it is still happening, it must be one of the best kept secrets in Pa.

I really think you are incorrect on this one but you have that right. Do what you can to prove me wrong.

Cindy, Thanks for posting the title and author of the book I was referring to.

[Jay3]

Sounds like an interesting book. Can you still get it?

[SmithFamilyLoft]

Originally Posted by Charis

I really think you are incorrect on this one but you have that right. Do what you can to prove me wrong.

Well....one would think, that everyone would hope that I am indeed correct. There is no way to "prove" that you are wrong. It's like saying, prove that we have not been visited by UFO's and that aliens do not live among us.

I of course hope that what I am saying is correct. I do hope that no one is able to in fact "Prove Me Wrong". Perhaps the HSUS, if they are serious, should place their offer of a reward in such publications as "Guns & Ammo" or "Field and Stream" where they may auctually be seen by members of the sportsmen clubs around the country.

My only real point in all of this, is that it is in the vested interest of some of these groups like HSUS to portray the image that these events are in fact taking place today, in order to justify their exsistance, and keep those donations rolling in.

And I am a little taken back from the title of this thread, which would suggest that pigeon fanciers such as myself, who reside in this state, simply have our heads in the sand, and have done nothing to stop these things in the past. While people and groups from places like NYC, point their fingers at us, saying that they are somehow in a better position to know what is going on.

Some of us here in Pa. have followed the money and birds which have been sold in various "Farmers Markets', to see if these birds do in fact end up at pigeon shoots. What we found, was rather then end up in pigeon shoots, they end up on..(for lack of a politically correct term) the dinner tables in ethnic neighborhoods in places like NYC !

In any given week, I can take you to one of these "Farmers Markets" where hundreds of pigeons are sold every week. There is no way the sheer numbers of these birds are ending up any where other then I have stated. Not that this should really make any of us feel much better.

If this situation should change, I will do everything in my power to bring such an event to the attention of the whole pigeon world, as well as the public and law enforcement. And make it cost such operators very dearly.

[spirit wings]

Originally Posted by Jay3

Sounds like an interesting book. Can you still get it?

i think I saw it on amazon.com...

[Jay3]

Thanks. I just ordered it.

[AZWhitefeather]

Originally Posted by SmithFamilyLoft

I also belong to a so called "Gun Club"...here in Pa.
all I am asking, is
give me a name and location of one of these shooting clubs where they pay $3 to $10 per pigeon to shoot at !?

Don Baily of the Strausstown Rod and Gun Club.

This is a quote from Andrew, once he was finally accepted into the club. Page 92 in the book.
"The club charges about $5.00 a pigeon."

Cindy

[Charis]

Attention Pennsylvania Hunters: Help Stop the Attack on Our Hunting Heritage!

Tuesday, July 01, 2008

Please Contact Your State Representative Today!

As we have reported, amendments filed by State Representative Daylin Leach (D-149) to Senate Bill 151 and House Bill 1543 could be considered by the House at ANY MOMENT. Simply stated, this legislation would criminalize and ban organized pigeon shoots in Pennsylvania by amending Title 18 ("Crimes and Offenses") of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes.

Pigeon shooting is an historic and legitimate activity steeped in tradition with many participants throughout the Commonwealth and around the world. Participants are law-abiding, ethical shooting enthusiasts, hunters, and sportsmen who would not tolerate an activity that would constitute cruelty to animals.


Pigeon shoots have been part of Pennsylvania’s storied hunting heritage for over one hundred years. Now, national “animal rights” extremist groups, led by the Humane Society of the United States (HSUS), have organized and funded efforts in Pennsylvania and around the country to ban this longstanding traditional shooting sport.


These zealots have set their sights on banning all hunting species by species throughout the United States, not just in Pennsylvania. Today, anti-hunting extremists are focusing on pigeon shooting, tomorrow it will be deer or turkey hunting. The CEO of HSUS, Wayne Pacelle, has admitted, “If we could shut down all sport hunting in a moment, we would.” Pacelle has even said, "We are going to use the ballot box and the democratic process to stop all hunting in the United States... We will take it species by species until all hunting is stopped..."


Please contact your State Representative IMMEDIATELY and respectfully ask him or her to protect Pennsylvania’s rich hunting tradition by opposing Representative Leach’s amendments. Contact information for your State Representative can be found here.










Pennsylvania Legislature


Pennsylvania Department of Conservation and Natural Resources





{I did remove some web page links that have to do with our upcoming Presidential election has I found them to be inappropriate. So sorry for the big gap here.]
































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[Lilito54]

Smithfamilyloft, my original posting was not directed to people like you, pigeon fanciers that appreciate and respect their birds. In fact it was not directed to any group or person in particular, I was simply passing on what I consider important information to people that deeply care about pigeons and birds in general.

I very much doubt that groups or any person here in NYC:
"would suggest that pigeon fanciers such as myself, who reside in this state, simply have our heads in the sand, and have done nothing to stop these things in the past. While people and groups from places like NYC, point their fingers at us, saying that they are somehow in a better position to know what is going on."

I certainly doubt that clubs that practice illegal pigeon shoots (massacres) will share that information with any pigeon fancier as yourself.

Also, if you look carefully at the dates of the articles I linked to on my previous posting, they are very recent, as late as August 28,2008. It is known everywhere that Labor Day Weekend is the bloodiest of all, three days of shooting, brutality and bloodshed.
This "sportsmen" get drunk and shoot at disoriented, confused, starving feral Rock Pigeons that come out of a box, from darkness, desperate to escape death.

We are also aware of the "Farmer's Markets" and their severe mistreatment and abuse of live poultry, but New Yorkers that eat pigeons do not have to go to PA to buy them, they simply go to China Town. I would suggest to anybody that likes oriental food and cares about birds, not to order any poultry dishes, it might be feral pigeon.

The Humane Society of The United States, as somebody pointed out, is very busy with all kinds of animal abuse to make this things up, it does not make sense, not to collect a$10 donation. And somebody did report a pigeon netter and got the $ 2,500 reward. It was in one of the links I sent to you, here it is again:
http://naturecalendar.wordpress.com/...netter-netted/

The reports go to the US Department of Environmental Conservation, Officer Joseph Pane @ 718-842-4941. So it is very unlikely that the United States Department of Environmental Conservation would be involved in discrediting all the citizens of the great state of Pennsylvania.
I am inserting the latest flyer from the Humane Society, it is dated August 2008. Last month, I handed them out to people that work outdors like, UPS, Doe Fund Workers, Fedex, mailmen, etc.
http://www.humanesociety.org/web-fil...shootflyer.pdf
Peace

[SmithFamilyLoft]

Oh gee....

Tell me it's not true.......

I guess the only thing I was really right about...is they are not "Public"..bring your camera and watch us kill stuff....kind of events.

http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=101326

Sorry...so sorry......can't believe...or did not want to believe...that the moron's would dare hold another one.

Is it legal in Pa. to shoot a pigeon shooter ? Can we hold a pigeon shooter shoot ? Maybe announce a big pigeon shoot, with free beer and the like, and when the pigeon shooter's show up...we round them up and then charge people $5 to take a shot at them.

I guess I just did not want to believe it.

[Charis]

Warren, You wrote this...
"If this situation should change, I will do everything in my power to bring such an event to the attention of the whole pigeon world, as well as the public and law enforcement. And make it cost such operators very dearly."

You are there...it's your state. Please follow through on your above statement and let us know what we can do to help.

[xxmoxiexx]

they still have them, SHARK was just up there to film it again, and some of them are public still.
SHARK is awesome, they were at the AR conference and i was so excited to see the pigeons represented there.....

[Jay3]

Originally Posted by SmithFamilyLoft

Oh gee....


Is it legal in Pa. to shoot a pigeon shooter ? Can we hold a pigeon shooter shoot ? Maybe announce a big pigeon shoot, with free beer and the like, and when the pigeon shooter's show up...we round them up and then charge people $5 to take a shot at them.

I think this would be a great idea. These morons call themselves hunters and sportsmen. They say they wouldn't be involved in something that was cruelty to animals. I guess rounding them up, and shoving them in boxes, then releasing a bunch of disoriented, confused birds, who are petrified and trying to escape with their life, only to be murdered pointlessly, by these great sportsmen, is Pa.'s idea of sport or hunting. It doesn't take much to make these idiots feel like be brave men does it? I agree Warren, let's hold a pigeon shooters shoot! And I want the first shot!