Stop petsmart from selling live birds!

[pdpbison]

I buy different bags of Seeds at my local 'Petsmart' fairly often...and when there, I spend a little time visiting with the different Birds they have.



Usually, at least some of the Birds look under-the-weather.


And several times now thay have had a sign saying no Birds will be sold for a few weeks because they are all on a medicine for the time being.



Well, of course, this is a sad thing all the way around.


They had a young Parrot there for months, and his Cage Bars were 'wide'.

So after a few visits, when I'd show up, he'd come over and I'd preen his Head, tickle his Feet and just visit with him for a while, talking and so on.


I really like him, but it was like a thousand buck price tag.



I figured he'd be happy here, where he could be a 'shoulder Bird', fly around, goof off, make pals with various Pigeons and so on.


I talked with the manager one day, saying "Well, you know, no one seems to want to bite that hefty price tag there, and he's been in the store, what, four months now? "


Anyway, the manager said he'd see about what would work...next time I was in, he says "$450.00 would do..."


I really thought hard on that...not because I want a Parrot, but because I liked THAT Parrot, and he was way depressed and not happy there, and probably, who ever would have bought him, would have had a lousy set up to offer him.


Anyway, while I was brooding over a few days, someone did spring the big dough and he was gone.


I felt really sad...


Somehow, I personally would prefer than there be no commerce in 'pets'.

I would prefer no one iport or breed animals forthe 'pet' market.


Altogether, the wrong people get them 99 times out of 100...and it is hard on the little ones being stuck in a store waiting for someone to buy them...waiting,usually, for what will only be a worse fate, anyway...than being in the store was.


That Parrot haunts me...he was so gentle and lonesome.



Phil
l v

[Jay3]

I can understand how you feel. I once went to look at a shepherd puppy who was very timid, even cowering in the corner. I later found out that all the pups these people bred acted that way when seen around the neighborhood. People there thought that these people were mean to their dogs. I had gotten that impression too, when I was there. That they were breeding this pair of sheperds just for the buck. They seemed kinda rough on the pair when we were there. Anyway, my husband thought I was nuts, but I bought the pup,(about 4 months old) just to get her out of there. She eventually came around with me, but she turned out to be the kind of dog who really needed to be the only dog of the house. I had other dogs at the time. It took me a while to find just the right person, but I did find a really nice guy who had recently lost his german shepherd to old age. I gave her to him. It was hard as I really loved the dog, but I knew he'd be good to her. It worked out great. I was happy that we did it that way. Otherwise, I'd always have wondered if she had gotten a good home. After being mistreated, she was kind of odd. Not everyone would have understood or had the patience with her. I would have felt as you do. So I know how you feel. You are a kind person.

[xxmoxiexx]

WHOA! I kind of felt like this thread was going by the wayside, and the last 3 days i've had the worst ear infection i've had in my entire life, and it's the worst pain i've had in a long time, so havent been online much...
Ok, i'm keeping it short because i have to go back to the doctors.
I am Like Charis, I usually feel strongly compelled to help innocent creatures, and that includes children. I am just so sick of going to petsmart, seeing totally uneducated people sell these birds to people that dont know better, and trust me, as i was a volunteer at the MSPCA for close to a year, lots and lots of these animals end up in shelters if they even survive.
What i would want, in a perfect world, is a pet shop that put the animals lives before the almighty dollar. They would hire educated people, the animals wouldnt be purchased from mills, and they would only be sold to highly screened customers who still wanted to purchase tha animal after long talks about how much responsibility it will be.
I dont agree with factory farming either, sorry, i just dont. I have eaten meat for a long time, and just cannot, even on a students budget, buy meat that is .99 cents a pound and straight from a factory farm. You say you like to not know where your steak comes from, i do, me and a close friend actually visited a farm here that sells meat and eggs to whole foods, and the animals are free to wander and at least have a shorter, free life.
I have to go to the doctor, and i'm not of sound mind to reply and say what i want to say, so i'll write more later. I'm in too much pain right now...

[SmithFamilyLoft]

Originally Posted by xxmoxiexx

WHOA! I kind of felt like this thread was going by the wayside,.....I am Like Charis, I usually feel strongly compelled to help innocent creatures, and that includes children. .....What i would want, in a perfect world, is a pet shop that put the animals lives before the almighty dollar. They would hire educated people, the animals wouldnt be purchased from mills, and they would only be sold to highly screened customers who still wanted to purchase tha animal after long talks about how much responsibility it will be.
......... You say you like to not know where your steak comes from, i do, me and a close friend actually visited a farm here that sells meat and eggs to whole foods, and the animals are free to wander and at least have a shorter, free life......

Well....let's all take a deep breath for a moment...

First of all, as a Moderator, I may have injected more of myself personally into this thread, then I should have. As you can see....emotions can quickly turn high, when we catch ourselves on a slippery slope.

As I place my Moderator hat on, I realize that this is the world's largest pigeon blog type of site, and these pages will show up on all kinds of search entries. This thread pretty much trashes a public company, which I not only makes purchases at from time to time, we most likely own a small piece of this business, through various 401(k) and IRA plans....if you own any of these types of investments, a good chance is, you do to. So, right off the bat, I may already be biased. I do know in my research, that a healthy amount of profits from this firm go to saving millions of animals. So, whenever you make a purchase from PetSmart, you actually are helping animals. See their program : http://www.petsmartcharities.org/

There may be many valid issues concerning the care of animals particularly from their suppliers. These are concerns which management, may or may not be fully aware of. I fully understand from the concerns stated, why some people feel that bird sales should be suspended until these issues are addressed. And I don't know how widespread this problem might be. Is it just a few stores or suppliers ? Can the situation be improved with changes in policy ? And what competitors will benifit, if PetSmart, for the sake of the animals, gives up this part of the business ? And are the conditions at the competitors of any importance to this discussion ?

Thousands of families depend on the jobs at stake, in order to put food on their table. If the goal to close bird and/or animals sales at PetSmart is successful, how will that affect not only the people involved, but the birds and animals. As in when they are being sold by someone else, will their lives be greatly improved ? As rational people, those are questions I thought in a gesture of fairness to the people we are talking about here, and will have their lives affected in some way, by this discussion....should have the benifit of the doubt. Which is why, I raised some of these questions...as food for thought.

And in closing, concerning your last statement above. You must be much more hardcore then me, because I would have no interest in visiting the farm and meeting and greeting with the animals that we will later consume. The business is highly regulated, and must pass Goverment Inspection. If my meat is stamped USDA PRIME, I know I got the good stuff. In many parts of the world, that may not be the case.

[spirit wings]

Originally Posted by SmithFamilyLoft

Well, truth be told, just to show you how far behind the curve I am, I didn't realize untill today that you are of the female gender. So, perhaps that means I am just a little on the slow side.

You keep doing the honorable thing, I just wanted readers to see another perspective. Who among us, can say we don't want animals given respect and treated well ? I never understood completely the idea of keeping wild birds inside your home in cages in the first place. And I am really surprized that after being ripped off by your purchase of sick birds which died, that you turned around and purchased additional animals from this place you now want closed. In a way, you and a few more million people like you, are who has created a market for these poor animals. Now that you have seen the light so to speak, you are upset, and I understand that now.

Hopefully, you will take some of this energy, and direct it towards public education.

As far as animal farming, I wish to remain in the dark. I know in the back of my mind where a NY Strip steak comes from, and how it goes from hoof to my table, but I don't want to give that too much thought. That is the responsibility and burden we all must bear, for being at the top of the food chain, instead of being "what's for dinner" ourselves.

that is what I think also, I know first hand.

[Georgina]

I've just read this thread from start to finish, you guys sure like to get your opinions accross don't you Not that that's a bad thing...

We don't have petsmart here in the UK but we do have pets at home which I guess is pretty much the same thing. I live on an island and one opened here last year. I was really excited about it as there's one near my sisters and it always had interesting birds I'd never seen. I went along on the opening day and was surprised to find they weren't stocking birds at all. They said it was because they were hard to look after in a shop environment and often died from shock over the journey or from constantly having customers poking their fingers in the cages. I was disapointed at first and then realised that actually, that was a really smart thing for pets at home to do! Now none of their stores stock birds at all.

I think it's fine for pet shops to sell birds, but it's really important that they only do so if at least a few of their employees know how to look after them and house them properly. I bought a hand reared conure from my local petshop (they look after their animals very well) and the shop owner has sent me a few emails since just to ask how she's doing. They only keep a few birds on the shop floor but they can take orders for anything else. This means when they arrive at the pet shop, they leave with their new owners straight away and don't have to go through the stress of being in the shop for days or even months.

There are a lot of cowboys out there just trying to make money the quick way but, every so often, you'll find a pet store that actually cares about their livestock. Don't get disheartened everyone!! They are out there somewhere!!

[Jaye]

I have to chime in on Moxxies side.

"Usually, at least some of the Birds look under-the-weather.
And several times now thay have had a sign saying no Birds will be sold for a few weeks because they are all on a medicine for the time being...."

This is the absolute norm at Petsmart...and it has been this way for a long, long time.

And I would like to highlight Jay3's comment....about buying an animal in order to rescue it. Because, this sort of purchase is not all that unusual...and it is the kind of thing which bad breeders, retailers, etc. absolutely live on. And it is a very difficult thing...because you want to help the poor animal, but you know your money is going to someone who will likely continue biz-as-usual. So, instead of doing that...or for some of us- after doing it, if your heart cannot bear it....you have to come back at that place with some hardball.

And SmithFamily...if your last post was "putting on a moderators hat" and '"finding some perspective"...well....I wouldn't want to converse with you when you are being....subjective.

First off...any company which is involved in selling animals has an absolute MORAL responsibility to insure the best environment for those animals. Those who don't...shoudln't be in the biz. There are a lot of much easier ways to make money.

Secondly....as I said, this Petsmart thing has been going on for YEARS...and it's STILL a huge issue with them....I was actually shocked when I landed on this thread and saw this is still going on.....

So...you have to take a stand...are you on the side of animal welfare?...or are you on the side of "business has a right...etc, etc., and think of all of the poor employees who could lose their jobs, etc."...?

Next, put aside the fact that the company gives millions to animal charities. If there is recorded mistreatment of their animals, and it has been confirmed, and it has been going on for many years....then how's about they take some of that money and put it towards training and hiring ?

If, in order to achieve this...it is necessary to apply enough public pressure to actually get them to discontinue selling animals (either permanently if they choose NOT to make a correction...or temporarily if they decide to do the right thing and invest in improving the lives and health of what they sell ~ which, IN TURN, would result in their animal breeders also having to up their game ~ since a large company can have that sort of sway)...then absolutely, so be it.

Honestly, Smith....your post really sounds like something which would come from the company's public relations rep....and it was very disappointing to read.

And lastly...if the USDA says that your food is primo...that's all you need to know ? Then I won't mention, for example, how much feces the USDA deems acceptable and allowable in your burgers....or the levels of bacteria which is deemed acceptable in your chicken, fish, and canned goods....

"I wish to remain in the dark"....Well, OK, everybody's got their something. And that's why Petsmart can exist....

But once again, for anyone who is interested in taking responsibility for not just the things you put in your body....but for whether or not you are in fact promoting the sort of practices which may be cruel, unsustainable, unfair, exploitative of laborers, etc....

I would heartily recommend not pulling the covers over your eyes and instead investigating where these things come from.....And if you DON'T like what you find...well....you can do something about it....

[John_D]

Originally Posted by Georgina

We don't have petsmart here in the UK but we do have pets at home which I guess is pretty much the same thing.

Y'know, that policy of not selling birds may well have come from change of ownership. At one time there were Petsmarts, then my local one became something else (I forget what), and is now a Pets at Home.

BTW, we have found that Pets at Home stores with an in-house veterinary practice can be good places to take rescued pigeons. The one we use in E Anglia is great, and my local store said they will treat pigeons just as any other bird. I doubt that any of them have specialized avian vets, though.

John

[John_D]

If this thread turns into a slanging match, it will be closed and posts may be removed.

This is not about what anyone should or should not eat, or anything similar, and is getting too far off topic in places.

John

[SmithFamilyLoft]

Originally Posted by Jaye

....This is the absolute norm at Petsmart...and it has been this way for a long, long time.....
And SmithFamily...if your last post was "putting on a moderators hat" and '"finding some perspective"...well....I wouldn't want to converse with you when you are being....subjective.

First off...any company which is involved in selling animals has an absolute MORAL responsibility to insure the best environment for those animals. Those who don't...shoudln't be in the biz. There are a lot of much easier ways to make money.

Secondly....as I said, this Petsmart thing has been going on for YEARS...and it's STILL a huge issue with them....I was actually shocked when I landed on this thread and saw this is still going on.....

So...you have to take a stand...are you on the side of animal welfare?...or are you on the side of "business has a right...etc, etc., and think of all of the poor employees who could lose their jobs, etc."...?

Next, put aside the fact that the company gives millions to animal charities. If there is recorded mistreatment of their animals, and it has been confirmed, and it has been going on for many years....then how's about they take some of that money and put it towards training and hiring ?......

I would heartily recommend not pulling the covers over your eyes and instead investigating where these things come from.....And if you DON'T like what you find...well....you can do something about it....

Well.....sometimes it is best to let the readers draw their own conclusions....and not try to be the judge, jury and executioner.

I'm not real comfortable at being put in the position of defending what may not be defendable. Neither am I willing to condemn someone or somebody, without at first reviewing all the facts.

You make a number of serious allegations, which I have no way of knowing first hand, what the situation really is. And then you attempt to bully me in some sort of holier-then-thou and condescending view, that you have somehow been gifted with higher MORAL Authority over not only me, but every reader who dares to look at the larger picture, or from a different perspective.

So whenever you challenge someone to "Take a Stand" for animal rights....you run the risk of appearing as extreme. I may agree with some of your stated goals, such as respect and reasonable care of animals, but your methods are "More in your Face" type of demands, which makes me feel sorry for the people you are mad at this week.

Then again, PetSmart has a proven record of saving millions of animals, and I only have some evidence of unhappy customers and a video of what is suppose to be of a supplier. And for all I know this supplier could be selling to numerous chain stores, or could be a complete fabrication, in order to hurt this company !

Based on the evidence provided so far, I don't know if you could even launch a single store protest march or demonstration. Maybe you can, and if so, more power to you. Just remember in order to get onto the local 11 O'clock news, you will want to be arrested. Then again, if you have evidence of what you suggest, then I am sure a 60 Minutes type of show, would love to do the story. American's are animal lovers, over 100 Million of us have pets ! I am sure anything which could attract a 100 Million of us, would be produced and shown on the news ! So let's see some real investagative reporting.

Simple complaints such as "Uneducated Employees"....please, that's an indictment of mostly every retail establishment in the USA !!!! The world is not perfect, and perhaps you and I will not see eye to eye on this issue. But, that is OK.

"It is better to light a single candle, then to curse the darkness. "

[Charis]

FDA Requests Seizure of Animal Food Products at PETCO Distribution Center
Today, at the request of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), U.S. Marshals seized various animal food products stored under unsanitary conditions at the PETCO Animal Supplies Distribution Center located in Joliet, Ill., pursuant to a warrant issued by the United States District Court in Chicago.
U.S. Marshals seized all FDA-regulated animal food susceptible to rodent and pest contamination. The seized products violate the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act because it was alleged in a case filed by the United States Attorney that they were being held under unsanitary conditions. (The Act uses the term "insanitary" to describe such conditions).
During an FDA inspection of a PETCO distribution center in April, widespread and active rodent and bird infestation was found. The FDA inspected the facility again in May and found continuing and widespread infestation.
"We simply will not allow a company to store foods under filthy and unsanitary conditions that occur as a direct result of the company's failure to adequately control and prevent pests in its facility," said Margaret O'K. Glavin, associate commissioner for regulatory affairs. "Consumers expect that such safeguards will be in place not only for human food, but for pet food as well."
The distribution center in Joliet, Ill., provides pet food products and supplies to PETCO retail stores in 16 states including Alabama, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Nebraska, Ohio, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, and Wisconsin.
FDA has no reports of pet illness or death associated with consumption of animal food distributed by PETCO, and does not have evidence that the food is unsafe for animals. However, the seized products were in permeable packages and held under conditions that could affect the food's integrity and quality.
As a precaution, consumers who have handled products originating from the PETCO distribution center should thoroughly wash their hands with hot water and soap. Any surfaces that came in contact with the packages should be washed as well. Consumers are further advised as a precaution to thoroughly wash products sold in cans and glass containers from PETCO in the 16 affected states.
If a pet has become ill after eating these food products, pet owners should contact their veterinarian and report illnesses to FDA state consumer complaint coordinators.
http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2008/NEW01854.html
________________________________________

[Jaye]

Originally Posted by SmithFamilyLoft

Then again, PetSmart has a proven record of saving millions of animals, and I only have some evidence of unhappy customers and a video of what is suppose to be of a supplier

Thanks for admitting that...because, as you know...sometimes information doesn't just land in your lap....you have to go looking for it. Your current position seems to be based upon the facts you simply have at hand. On the other side of things, there is a litany of complaints over the years about this company...and not very hard to find with moderate effort and a little time, actually.

This isn't about convenience of gathering information....(although I thank Charis FOR dropping that last lil' tidbit right in our laps)...

It's about a store... which supposedly serves animal lovers...doing very bad things...and what can be done to make them straighten up their act...and what can be done to assure humane treatment for animals....

The info is there.... just like info on food-grading standards is there....if one chooses to ask questions about it....

[Jay3]

Originally Posted by Jaye

I have to chime in on Moxxies side.

"Usually, at least some of the Birds look under-the-weather.
And several times now thay have had a sign saying no Birds will be sold for a few weeks because they are all on a medicine for the time being...."

This is the absolute norm at Petsmart...and it has been this way for a long, long time.

And I would like to highlight Jay3's comment....about buying an animal in order to rescue it. Because, this sort of purchase is not all that unusual...and it is the kind of thing which bad breeders, retailers, etc. absolutely live on. And it is a very difficult thing...because you want to help the poor animal, but you know your money is going to someone who will likely continue biz-as-usual. So, instead of doing that...or for some of us- after doing it, if your heart cannot bear it....you have to come back at that place with some hardball.

And SmithFamily...if your last post was "putting on a moderators hat" and '"finding some perspective"...well....I wouldn't want to converse with you when you are being....subjective.

First off...any company which is involved in selling animals has an absolute MORAL responsibility to insure the best environment for those animals. Those who don't...shoudln't be in the biz. There are a lot of much easier ways to make money.

Secondly....as I said, this Petsmart thing has been going on for YEARS...and it's STILL a huge issue with them....I was actually shocked when I landed on this thread and saw this is still going on.....

So...you have to take a stand...are you on the side of animal welfare?...or are you on the side of "business has a right...etc, etc., and think of all of the poor employees who could lose their jobs, etc."...?

Next, put aside the fact that the company gives millions to animal charities. If there is recorded mistreatment of their animals, and it has been confirmed, and it has been going on for many years....then how's about they take some of that money and put it towards training and hiring ?

If, in order to achieve this...it is necessary to apply enough public pressure to actually get them to discontinue selling animals (either permanently if they choose NOT to make a correction...or temporarily if they decide to do the right thing and invest in improving the lives and health of what they sell ~ which, IN TURN, would result in their animal breeders also having to up their game ~ since a large company can have that sort of sway)...then absolutely, so be it.

Honestly, Smith....your post really sounds like something which would come from the company's public relations rep....and it was very disappointing to read.

And lastly...if the USDA says that your food is primo...that's all you need to know ? Then I won't mention, for example, how much feces the USDA deems acceptable and allowable in your burgers....or the levels of bacteria which is deemed acceptable in your chicken, fish, and canned goods....

"I wish to remain in the dark"....Well, OK, everybody's got their something. And that's why Petsmart can exist....

But once again, for anyone who is interested in taking responsibility for not just the things you put in your body....but for whether or not you are in fact promoting the sort of practices which may be cruel, unsustainable, unfair, exploitative of laborers, etc....

I would heartily recommend not pulling the covers over your eyes and instead investigating where these things come from.....And if you DON'T like what you find...well....you can do something about it....

All I can add to this well written comment is AMEN! Smith, You DO sound like a PR person for Petsmart. Asking whether or not the animals would be better off at their competitors is a ridiculous statement. You ask if their lives would be greatly improved. YES it will, when places who abuse and mistreat their animals are brought into the light and stopped. You have to start somewhere, and Petsmart is as good a place as any. If they would be no better off, is not an excuse to look the other way. Wrong is wrong. Just because many others do the same wrong, doesn't make it okay. One abuser at a time. Eventually we will get to the others. Any animal mill is wrong. And a company who cared about animal welfare wouldn't deal with them. Petco uses the same supplier by the way. And what you are saying is that this is okay because a healthy amount of profits from this firm go to saving millions of animals? I'll just bet it isn't okay to the animals on the end with the short stick. Abuse and mistreatment is just wrong. No matter how hard you try, you cannot make it right or acceptable. And it certainly sounded as though you were saying that all those people who would lose their jobs were more important than the cruelty and pain these animals suffer. It is exactly this kind of indifference to another creatures suffering that has allowed this kind of thing to go on for so long. But we are gaining in numbers now, and people with your indifference will eventually be outnumbered. Thank God!

[LokotaLoft]

I think you need to save the lashings for the people that really need them ...but then thats just my simple opinion as sad as it is people should still be allowed their own opinions dont you think

p.s. I didnt see anywhere that he said it was ok to treat animals that way ?

[Jay3]

I suppose you could look at it that way, but then, it is exactly that opinion that has allowed this kind of mistreatment for so long. Of course..............THAT'S JUST MY OPINION!