update on Milford

[mistenle]

I don't know about the rest of you but I hate not knowing how a story ends. This one has a happy ending.

http://www.milforddailynews.com/loca...rticleid=77001

hope the link works

[Trees Gray]

Thanks for sharing the newspaper article. Very interesting...

I'm still wondering where all the pigeons went, though, nobody seems to know, and there were quite alot of them....strange.

I read that this stuff (AVIPEL) doesn't kill them it just gives them a stomach ache when they eat it A LITTLE OF IT, so they associate the food with the area and leave. They say it isn't killing them, but it is causing them to suffer. Stomach ache is all,and how bad is it?

They said AVITROL doesn't cause any suffering they just go to sleep. Yeah, right, it causes them great pain and suffering, nausea, vomiting, diarhhea, and it causes them to fly into windows and stuff, & then death.

But since AVIPEL doesn't kill, it's considered to be much more humane, even though it does cause a stomach ache. I wonder how bad a stomach ache the bird has. It must be really bad for them to leave right away. Did they actually have a doctor check a pigeon to see how it was doing? They can't exactly ask them how they feel now can they? Have they done any long term testing? What if a pigeon comes across it many times wherever it goes?

I'm not convinced that it is the humane alternative, are you?

Oh, one more thing... it is CHEAPER then Avitrol, so its a cheaper form of abuse, another plus.

That is one more for the list of perals our feral pigeons must endure, and another thing to lower their life expectancy.

...sorry about rambling on and on....

[feralpigeon]

Hi Treesa & Mistenle,

I've always wondered about the Avipel simply because Pigeons have so many "stress" related illnesses. Also, how many times do humans eat something and find themselves unable to "pinpoint" the exact thing that has made them feel bad. I know pigeons are smart, but is it realistic even w/instinct to expect them to immediately make an association w/a specific place and not feeling well? Also, how much stress does it take for a given bird to go over-the-edge and have canker or cocci become a problem for them?? I don't think there is really anyway to assess that.

A stomache ache, no matter how mild or severe, is still a form of physical pain,
something we would not allow by law to induce a desired behavior from a human. Why is it ok to do that to another sensient being unable to express themselves in our terms? If you followed the logic of that stance, it would be OK to induce "physical pain to achieve a desired behavior" as long as the person didn't speak the language of the inflictor. I think this would not be a winning tactic in an international court of law.

While I'm of course grateful that Avitrol wasn't the chosen remedy for the Milford situation, I would hate to think that Avipel would be the collective best that humanity can come up with to display a humane solution.

fp

[Trees Gray]

Hi fp & Mistenle,

Yeah, I got to thinking more about the stomach ache after I was done posting. The Avipel, that caused stomach ache, may rob them of valuable stomach flora, depleting the gut bacteria, causing their immune system to break down, and making them vulnerable to disease. Also, what happens when they eat the Avipel, and go back and feed their youngsters? Will the youngsters survive, either the feeding or long term effect(their new squeeky clean intestines aren't prepared for such an onslought)?

You don't suppose whoever created this stuff has thought about the effects in depth, like we do, huh?

[Lin Hansen]

Originally Posted by Trees Gray

You don't suppose whoever created this stuff has thought about the effects in depth, like we do, huh?

Hi Treesa,

Good observation there. I hate to say it, but for the makers of this and other "deterrents," I'm sure it would be considered a "win/win" situation. In their line of work, having less pigeons survive, just makes their job easier in the long run...Sad.

Linda

[SmithFamilyLoft]

Has any good, ever come from chemical "control" products being fed to any specie of birds, without a negative impact on several different levels. Some we may not even know about for ten, twenty or even thirty years from now ? I can't help but think, that twenty years from now. People will be reading about what people did in the "good old days" and will think...Boy were those people stupid !

And others will say....YES, BUT...they just didn't realize the impact of what they were doing to the whole system.

[Trees Gray]

Originally Posted by Lin Hansen

I'm sure it would be considered a "win/win" situation. In their line of work, having less pigeons survive, just makes their job easier in the long run...Sad. :
Linda

It's a win/win situation for them, the makers and distributors, when there is money involved.

The impact will ultimately effect the existance of all life on our planet, it already has and it can only get worse.

[feralpigeon]

Originally Posted by SmithFamilyLoft

Has any good, ever come from chemical "control" products being fed to any specie of birds, without a negative impact on several different levels. Some we may not even know about for ten, twenty or even thirty years from now ? I can't help but think, that twenty years from now. People will be reading about what people did in the "good old days" and will think...Boy were those people stupid !

And others will say....YES, BUT...they just didn't realize the impact of what they were doing to the whole system.

In respect to stupidity I'm sure there are many of us here who remember going to the movies as kids and seeing "shorts" of what to do in case of a nuclear bomb. Who could ever forget the "duck and cover" drills in grade school? And how many decades did it take to get the majority of the population to understand that we haven't solved the problem of where to store the waste yet?

Unfortunately, we seem to do better grasping the problem of our "technological advances" after we discover what problems our actions have
produced rather than doing the needed research in advance.

fp

[mistenle]

Using a non-poisoness method is one step forward because its not until we stop automatically killing animals that are seen as a nuisance that we can begin to see them as beings with as much right to live as we do. We can't change the world all at once but by changing a little at a time big changes can happen. It wasn't that long ago that anyone suggesting it was wrong to poison animals would have been laughed at. Now that is changing and its on to the next step and that is a good thing.

[Lady Tarheel]

The part that bothered me was the woman at the medical center chuckling about getting rid of the pigeons. maggie