:(

[AZWhitefeather]

Originally Posted by pdpbison

Hi Cindy,

Thank you for the dialogue...

Phil
Las Vegas

No problem, your most welcome.

Cindy

[pdpbison]

Hi surfingpigeon,


Then learn to respect them.

Learn to respect that they grow up and may wish to own their own life.

You do not own them, and so far, you have not indicated anything about respecting them in terms of anything but, 'food and water and grit' as your prisoner for life.

You allways 'loved' animals..?

Then what happenned this time with "this" Pigeon?

I see nothing of "love" having had anything to do with it.

If you knew, or were emtionally able to know, the difference between Love and your own needyness, your post would have been about how does one best assimilate juveniles INTO a wild or other flock, and how glad you were that this little Bird whom you grabbed as a youngster, how well it had grown up and so on...how it's stages of maturity and independance were something you were proud of and so on.

To alienate a Baby Pigeon so that even IT does not 'like' you, prior to it's growing up...is a pretty interesting thing to have done.

I think you should best stay away from 'animals', especially baby ones or defenseless ones.



In fact, do me a favor...

Go to Yosemite, and try your game say on a Baby Bear...

Or try it with someone, some 'animal' who can assert itself wholesomely and effectively, or who has a parent who can intervene.

Try that...

Lol...

And with sadness also...


Yours, sincerely,



Phil
Las Vegas

[photokev]

Phil,
What is it you're trying to do? All of us here get what you're saying - over and over and over again. Do you get that you're making an assumption about someone you've never met? Give it a rest, please.

[Garye]

All I know is that I thought about taking some ferals and protecting them by raising them at home (which I can't do - because of eviction) but then I always thought, "Well maybe the ferals have family and friends they'd miss. Maybe they wouldn't be happy with me no matter what I could give them. I wouldn't be able to give them their freedom and if people have died for freedom, how much does it mean to a pigeon?" and that's what always kept me from taking one (not that I could ever catch one, they're too fast anyways.). I try not to interfere too much in their lives. I give them food but I have reduced it in the hope that they are able to live their lives naturally. But I love pigeons, as I believe that teenager does also, but it takes a lot of strength to love them enough to let them be free and natural.

Whether or not the teenager caught the bird when it was healthy or sick, I can understand the love he/she felt for it. There's no evil in that part. It just takes understanding and strength to realize that the best way to love something free is to let it stay free. But who knows what the true story is. I'm not ready to judge the teenager yet because I don't know the whole story and I feel I shouldn't make that decision until I do.

[zoo keeper]

Well....

I have been following this thread and one thought keeps popping in my head each time I read Phils' posts.

Does anyone remember ARTY that was once here? Remember how ARTY flipped out and started writing weird posts? Well Phil each of your posts makes me think of ARTY

Hope you are ok.

[pdpbison]

Hi Photokev,


Happy to...!

But sinse this is a discussion in which posts are also asking me to reply, or screwing up what I had actually said, what else should I do, ignore them?


Lol...


Phil
Las Vegas

[pdpbison]

Hi Zookeeper,


I regret to have to see the fatuous sarcasm and condesention of your 'concern'.

Since I of course do not know who that person was nor know what sort of of posts they had written, I am sorry you see fit to take this sort of tactic.

This is interesting isn't it, how ugly so many of you can get, over what exactly?

That I chastised someone for not being deferential to the healthy needs of a Bird? for making no mention of these needs in any way as being of any interest or concern to thyem, but for their pretext of justifaction of trying to force one to 'like' them for interfereing with it. While they lament on how sad they were at the Bird doing what was healthy for it to do, in 'escapeing' from imposed meddleing from someone trying to nake the Bird "like" them?


What is going on here, do you think, Zookeeper?


Is this a little too much like 'you' maybe?


I tell you what Zookeeper, lets make a deal -

I will start a new thread which discusses the salient issues here...

And you show me, in their succcession, with clickable links to them, the references you have in mind for your accusation, of the progression of those threads of mine which you say have gotten "wierd"...


Okay ?


For a so called Moderator, you are a little too smarmy and snide and cowardly I think, to have the requisite impartiality or guidence for a constructively guiding a thread. Or for addressing an issue head on, or even sayiong what the issue 'is' as a premis for your attentions (hostillities and cheap shots).

Instead, you are more the 'problem' here than anything you could attribute to me, who am not a so called 'moderator'.

Anyway, please show me what you are refering to, of how I have "flipped out and gotten wierd", and as I said, I will move this 'issue' of people being needy and useing animals to the animal's detriment, to another thread of it's own.


Phil
Las Vegas

[zoo keeper]

Phil,

I dont think I need to explain anything. You just keep posting away here. This seems to be your thread and pet peeve ... I will let you keep the floor on it.

[photokev]

Phil, Nobody is mistaking what you're saying. Correct me if I'm wrong - In your opinion this 17 year old has a mental health issue and shouldn't be keeping birds. In your opinion, they captured the bird because they needed a "friend" and wanted to force this wild bird to like them because they were needy. Everyone gets what your opinion is. Nobody is asking you to reply. The folks here are politely asking you to stop.

I'm the most hard-headed person I know, and will defend a position to the death, but when everyone I know ask me to consider I might be wrong it sends up a red flag for me. I realize I MIGHT just be wrong. You're hanging on to the illusion that this is a pigeon related issue with all of us and we've been trying to tell you it's a people issue. You can't make assumptions about people until you know all the facts. Would you like people making assumptions about you? I could assume you're 51, single and live with 30 pigeons because you can't cut it with a human relationship, but that would be wrong of me to do. If you're going to make an assumption about someone make it on the positive side until they prove otherwise. I assume you have a good heart and the way you express it is through your unquestioning devotion to your birds.

Please understand what we're saying. This has nothing to do with pigeons. You have gone past the line with what you can say to a stranger. That's why this post has drug out for as long as it has. People are trying to tell you to back off. This isn't funny nor is it flippant. I can't tell you what to do, nor would I ever, but I'm asking you to read the post that are in opposition to you and GET what people are saying. A red flag should be going up for you.

[pdpbison]

Hi Zookeeper,

You are a hit and run cheap-shot maker then, and if asked to back it up, or to agree to make this constructive, and in earnest, you retreat.

You have not earned my respect.

How sad...


Phil
Las Vegas

[pdpbison]

Hi Photokev,


Thank you...

I understand.

Everyone got hung up on my incidental attribution, and continues to miss entirely the 'facts' as we know them to be, from sp's initial and previous ( referenced) posting.

Okay...this is not lost on me...


How about this?

Lets just try beginning at the beinning, and reading their initial post, as far as what it "actually" said, rather than all the projection into it, of everyone's emotional 'identifications' which might not be at all "about" the facts, but, are in the way of being able to simply, critically "read" what had been written.

If this is a dead-horse, who or what do you think, "killed" it?

Phil
Las Vegas

[Norwich-guy]

Well i hope i don't get roasted in here but my first pigeons were wild birds. I caught them when i was 8 years old,and for the life of me i can't remember what my motive was to get pigeons. I come from a nonpigeon family,i started raising young birds and flew the parents which came back.I met pigeon people and got some rollers and still flew all the birds together.I am very much indebted to those first wild birds i caught as i still have birds today.

[zoo keeper]

Oh Phil,

We had a member who went off the deep end and freaked out. Your posts made me think of him. What more can I say? it does not seem like anything anyone says to you is doing any good. You are just digging a deeper weird hole and each of your posts reminds me of the man who lost it on here and was banned.

I think that explains enough, do I have your respect back now? Not that it bothered me if I did not have it to begin with.

I think everyone is trying to tell you something and you are missing the point.

So the floor seems to remain yours.

Tanya

[Pigeonpal2002]

Hi Phil,

Zoo Keeper is not a moderator, but I am. You are out of line here, and your words to some of the members are insulting and belittling. I'm asking you nicely, PLEASE DROP THE SUBJECT. You've monopolized this entire thread and probably succeeded in scaring James away for a second time.

[photokev]

Phil,
I'm talking to you man to man. Ignore every other post that's preceded this one. I HAVE read the original post by SP and YOU are reading something into it that you don't know for sure is there. YOU are making a big leap that everyone here is objecting to. It's not a bird issue, it's turned into a Phil issue.

Everyone has an opinion at any given moment, the right thing to do is keep it to yourself until you know all the facts. Think about what I'm saying. The next post from you, if your the man I hope you are, will be an apology to SP and a commitment to hold your tongue until you know all the facts. If any member of this forum turns out to be mistreating a charge in their care I'll have your back on any harsh post you submit, but you're just flat out wrong in the way you've handled this.