Feral Pigeon- Parents Not Feeding

[NewPigie]

Hi Everybody!
LTNS!
I've got a feral baby in a box on my patio I'm pretty sure he's around 7 days??? Yellow down and some pin feathers.
The parents have been leaving him alone for 12 hour stretches and he just squeaks a LOT!!!
How often should he be fed?

[Feefo]

Hi New Pigie,

This is from "Feral Pigeons" by Richard F Johnston and Marian Janiga, and it is based on deliberate observation and record keeping:"From about day 7, young beg persistently and loudly, stretching up and pushing toward the arriving adult, which ordinarily gives an announcement call (Cramp 1985). Until this time, the young have been fed three or four times daily, but will now receive only two feedings per day, in the morning and the afternoon (Kotov 1978)."

That covers the feedings. As for brooding, they say:

At hatching, body temperature ranges from 31.5 degrees C and no appreciable rise of temperature occurs on the day of hatching (Sengupta 1974)...the body temperature of a squab rises slowly on day 2 and reaches 34 degrees C to 35 degres C on day 7 (Sengupta 1974)..squabs normally are brooded continuously for the first 6 to 7 days, although not on day 7 if they have achieved endothermy (Kotov 1978) Squabs usually reach 37 degrees on day 8...Nestlings may be brooded until day 13, but some are brooded at night until day 18.

7 days seems a bit early for the parents to be leaving them for long periods. It is usaully after day 10, when the squabs have achieved adult thermoregulation, that the adults begin to leave them alone but under observation.

Cynthia

[NewPigie]

Hi cyro-
I can't thank you enough.
My husband and I have decided we may be off a few days .. he may be closer to 9 or even 10 days old... SO the above scenario would fit just right.

I really appreciate your help.

Yesterday at around 11 am he was squeaking like crazy and I climbed up the ladder to have a look ... we hadn't seen the parents AT ALL since the prior morning... and we had been out in the yard all day. His crop was so empty it was sunken in and he looked very weak.

We found his little nest mate had perished. We removed him and I went ahead and fed the remaining one some Kaytee formula from a nipple in the nest. He went at it voraciously. He perked right up. We had to leave for the day shortly after.

.. No sign of the parents yet today.

I'd rather not interfere unless it's totally necessary.
Is it a bad idea to supplement this way?
Big Daddy has always been such a doting father ... I don't get his absense at all this time.

PS I'm in PHX and it's still very warm.

ANY advice is welcome!

Thank you,
Leslie

[Charis]

Leslie, I would keep a close eye out for the parents. I'm rather suspicious since you said you had found the nest mate dead. It could be you will need to intervene with this baby after all.

[NewPigie]

Originally Posted by Charis

Leslie, I would keep a close eye out for the parents. I'm rather suspicious since you said you had found the nest mate dead. It could be you will need to intervene with this baby after all.

HI Charis-
I'm keeping a very close eye on him.
Something else odd ... two other ferals that live in a tree in my yard have been hanging around the nest box. On top of it and on the window ledge next to it.
I wasn't surprised to find the second-hatched had died. I never saw him fighting to feed like the one I assumed was first.
He was so tiny. He had no signs of trauma.

I forgot to mention that right before we left yesterday .. after I had fed the baby some formula... the Dad showed up... and fed him briefly.

One more question:
I've had many squeakers living on my patio. I've never known one to squeak unless the parents were there.
If he's all alone in there and squeaking .. does that mean he's REALLY hungry?

[Feefo]

I agree with Charis. If you take him in for the night, keep him warm and fill his crop up you won't be doing any harm even if the parents return. But as Charis said, the dead nestmate is a bad sign.

Cynthia

[NewPigie]

Originally Posted by cyro51

I agree with Charis. If you take him in for the night, keep him warm and fill his crop up you won't be doing any harm even if the parents return. But as Charis said, the dead nestmate is a bad sign.

Cynthia

I've actually had 6 feral broods .. same Big Daddy all different moms.
The second hatched has never made it past 10 days.
Lost the last one to canker. (Took him to a rehabber)
I think Daddy is a carrier.
Yesterday I fed him IN the nest.
Would it hurt to put Spartrix is it? In his formula if I feed him again?
I'm sorry to be all over the place here.

[Charis]

http://www.jedds.com/Detail.bok?cate...chpath=5707212

You could order this.

[AZWhitefeather]

Originally Posted by NewPigie

I've actually had 6 feral broods .. same Big Daddy all different moms.
The second hatched has never made it past 10 days.

* Lost the last one to canker. (Took him to a rehabber)

I think Daddy is a carrier.
Yesterday I fed him IN the nest.
Would it hurt to put Spartrix is it? In his formula if I feed him again?
I'm sorry to be all over the place here.

* I'm sorry to hear he didn't make it.
Is that the little one you brought over to me, before going to the rehabber?
If so, he was terribly sick.

Cindy

[Feefo]

The second hatched has never made it past 10 days.

That sounds more like salmonellosis. Have a look at the fifth symptom in this list :

Symptoms:

* Cock birds may appear fine one day, be dead the next
* Hens show weight loss, sticky droppings, swollen wing joint at elbow
* Eggs turn black and appear rotten
* Hatchlings begin to hatch then die in shell
* Seven to ten day old youngsters show diarrhea, dehydration and death - often, of two in a nest, only one is affected
* Twisting of the neck may occur, but this is more common with PMV

http://www.pigeon-aid.org.uk/pa/html/paratyphoid.html

All pigeons carry some trichomonads (the organism that causes canker).

Cynthia




All pigeons carry some trichomonads (the organism that causes canker0.

[Charis]

You're right Cynthia.... it could be that in addition to canker.

[NewPigie]

Originally Posted by AZWhitefeather

* I'm sorry to hear he didn't make it.
Is that the little one you brought over to me, before going to the rehabber?
If so, he was terribly sick.

Cindy

Hi Cindy!
Yes ... it was little Cinco who didn't make it. (We tried).

I did manage to get some Spartrix to Big Daddy... so hopefully he hasn't passed canker on to the newest baby. The last 2 eggs didn't hatch at all.

I fed the new baby again this morning around 11.

[NewPigie]

Originally Posted by cyro51

That sounds more like salmonellosis. Have a look at the fifth symptom in this list :

Symptoms:

* Cock birds may appear fine one day, be dead the next
* Hens show weight loss, sticky droppings, swollen wing joint at elbow
* Eggs turn black and appear rotten
* Hatchlings begin to hatch then die in shell
* Seven to ten day old youngsters show diarrhea, dehydration and death - often, of two in a nest, only one is affected
* Twisting of the neck may occur, but this is more common with PMV

http://www.pigeon-aid.org.uk/pa/html/paratyphoid.html

All pigeons carry some trichomonads (the organism that causes canker).

Cynthia




All pigeons carry some trichomonads (the organism that causes canker0.

What I've seen so far .. is the second to hatch not thriving and not getting fed as much. On most occasions one just seemed from the start to be much smaller and not as strong.

[Feefo]

The parent birds will pass some trichomonads to their young when feeding them, this exposes the young to the organism gradually and they are able to build up a natural immunity. The number of trichomonads that are passed can be increased when a bird is under stress and this is when the youngsters could develop an overburden which leads to canker.

The symptoms of canker don't appear until 6 days after infection.

Where there is salmonella one of a pair of squabs will fail to thrive, so when one squab is significantly smaller than the other there is a strong chance that the parents are carriers of salmonella. The remedy of choice for salmonellosis is Enrofloxacin, , 10-20 mg per kilo bw by mouth once a day. Or if put in water, 37 - 150 mg /liter.

But Enrofloxacin could affect bone developement in squabs. Clavamox is alos effective against salmonella, but not as effective as Enrofloxacin.

You also have to remember that when you medicate adult birds that are crop feeding the medication will be passed to the babies.

Cynthia

[Charis]

Originally Posted by cyro51

The parent birds will pass some trichomonads to their young when feeding them, this exposes the young to the organism gradually and they are able to build up a natural immunity. The number of trichomonads that are passed can be increased when a bird is under stress and this is when the youngsters could develop an overburden which leads to canker.

The symptoms of canker don't appear until 6 days after infection.

Where there is salmonella one of a pair of squabs will fail to thrive, so when one squab is significantly smaller than the other there is a strong chance that the parents are carriers of salmonella. The remedy of choice for salmonellosis is Enrofloxacin, , 10-20 mg per kilo bw by mouth once a day. Or if put in water, 37 - 150 mg /liter.

But Enrofloxacin could affect bone developement in squabs. Clavamox is alos effective against salmonella, but not as effective as Enrofloxacin.

You also have to remember that when you medicate adult birds that are crop feeding the medication will be passed to the babies.

Cynthia

Feralpigeon asked Dr Spears about Baytril and the generics of it , in the treatment of squabs and his explanation was that the treated squab may be a bit smaller as an adult but weighing that with the illness, it is better to use it as a treatment. I have used it for squabs and have not noticed any difference in their development.