My Worst Fears Have Come True

[ante bozanich]

Thanks Larry,

I know what you mean. I have been watching and practically living with these fascinating and beautiful creatures for a long time. They come to my house through the terrace door and leave as they wish. I would have it no other way but to let them be free. I know all about their rituals. One couple has built their nest there while back, has already had one pair of offsprings (I have talked about them here at another thread) and new eggs were laid about three feet away in their new nest little after these first babies have started flying. The other couple has stolen the nest from another pair, I think, not too long ago. I have been keeping my fingers crossed that nobody would interfere with my and their freedom but here it goes.

As far as killing the embryos, yes I feel bad, but I live by philosophy do the least harm and even though I did panic I still don't see the alternative in this respect.

Anyway I have to keep moving. There is so much evidence here inside and outside my apartment that I think I am going to work day and night on this to meet the deadline.

[ante bozanich]

I forgot to ask two questions or suggestions if anyone has time to answer.

1) Besides the loud balloon noise, which Larry has suggested, is there any other way I can keep all these birds far away? The problem is when I scare them, they just fly to a rooftop of nearby building and keep staring at me which I am sure will give exterminators a clue of what is going on.

2) Considering all of this, do you think I should remove the nests and dead eggs right away or wait and do it one day before the exterminators come as Phyll has suggested? My feeling is that it's the best to do it as soon as possible so they hopefully forget about the nest and leave, but I don't want to do anything any more without being sure.

[Lovebirds]

Originally Posted by ante bozanich

I forgot to ask two questions or suggestions if anyone has time to answer.

1) Besides the loud balloon noise, which Larry has suggested, is there any other way I can keep all these birds far away? The problem is when I scare them, they just fly to a rooftop of nearby building and keep staring at me which I am sure will give exterminators a clue of what is going on.

2) Considering all of this, do you think I should remove the nests and dead eggs right away or wait and do it one day before the exterminators come as Phyll has suggested? My feeling is that it's the best to do it as soon as possible so they hopefully forget about the nest and leave, but I don't want to do anything any more without being sure.

IMO.........immediately take away food, water, nests, eggs, EVERYTHING......ignore the birds and MAKE them go away. In two or three days, they will get hungry and go looking for food. Everytime one lands on your terrace, scare it away. This sounds SO cruel..........well, actually it IS cruel, but you've been left no choice. If you don't discourage the birds NOW, and wait a couple of days, they may not be hungry enough to leave, but WILL be hungry enough to eat any poisoned food that might be put down.

[flitsnowzoom]

Hi Ante,
I've been following your story -- I'm so sorry about the impending visits and possible poisoning of birds.
go to this web site
http://nycprc.org/index.html
If you already haven't and do some looking around. they have some good info, and might even be able to offer some additional constructive ideas for you to use. They might be the best bet to find out if certain posions are legal or not. Should poison be put out, you need to know your rights as an individual (can you refuse to have it in your apartment because it might injure a person/persons? I can't answer, but maybe that could be a starting place).
There's an additional link to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/PijnPeople/
that was started by the same people that run the NYC pigeon rescue group where you could find a contact or two that could also help with your situation.
As far as the birds staring at your terrace after you shoo them away. That would be natural as that has been a safe place and "home" for them for some time. It will take time for them to find new and safe turf. Like someone suggested, if you could trap the birds and do a release into a feral flock not too terribly close, that might be a good alternative. Maybe after things calm down, you won't have to be too vigilant about shooing them away.
Birds are birds. There's a reason why a bird is so often used to symbolize freedom -- they have the ability move freely and will come and go as they can, regardless of what humans do to control them (just as all non-domesticated animals will). You can't own a wild bird, so for people to state to your landlord "they're her birds", that's all wrong. All you have done is to not actively harrassed the wildlife. (I thought harrassing wildlife was against the law anyway).
Best thoughts coming your way -- flitsnowzoom

[docbjb]

Ante Bozanich, I am so sorry you are having to go through this. I can't offer you any different ideas than those already offered to you by the other kind and compassionate members of the group, but I did want to say that I understand your situation and am so sorry. A few weeks ago there was an animal control company at my apartment that laid poisoned corn for the pigeons. I have a nest in the corner of my balcony, and I was lucky they did not come door to door, but laid the poison on the roof of my large building. I was able to shelter and feed my pigeons while the others died (not all died, but quite a few).

It makes me so very sad to see how humans try to "control" nature and to kill other living beings because they are "nuisances". How arrogant we can be. If God saw fit to create all living creatures, who are we to refine that plan?

As I said, I know words can't help, but I did want to let you know that there are many here whose hearts ache along with yours for this senseless cruelty.

[phyll]

Originally Posted by ante bozanich

Also my understanding was that pigeon poison was illegal in NYC?

Avitrol has been banned in NYC, but other poisons are still being used.
I don't know it's name, but a certain poison causes the pigeons to explode. When it becomes wet, it releases gas. When the poor pigeons eat corn (or anything) that has been treated with it, their abdominal gas increases until they explode.

I learned of this only yesterday & I am sick about it.
Anyone who would knowingly do this to any creature, cannot believe there is a God.

The reason I suggested removing the nests a day or two before the bastards arrive, was so the pigeons would not have time to build another nest.
Take Renee's advice & remove the nests immediately, but be on the look-out for any new construction.

If you haven't already done so, stop providing food & water.
Don't even speak to the poor birds. I know that will be hard, but you are trying to save their lives.
The only good thing, is that it's finally warm here, & the change will be a bit easier on them.

I suggest you post about your situation on "New York City Pigeon Rescue Central." NYCPRC.org
Someone there may be able to help.

Phyll

[Reti]

Originally Posted by phyll

I suggest you post about your situation on "New York City Pigeon Rescue Central." NYCPRC.org
Someone there may be able to help.

Phyll

Absolutely, do that. The NYC pigeon people helped me a great deal when I went through the same situation.

Reti

[ante bozanich]

Originally Posted by Lovebirds

IMO.........immediately take away food, water, nests, eggs, EVERYTHING......ignore the birds and MAKE them go away. In two or three days, they will get hungry and go looking for food. Everytime one lands on your terrace, scare it away. This sounds SO cruel..........well, actually it IS cruel, but you've been left no choice. If you don't discourage the birds NOW, and wait a couple of days, they may not be hungry enough to leave, but WILL be hungry enough to eat any poisoned food that might be put down.

Thanks everyone and specially Lovebirds. I needed and I appreciate very much your sober, pragmatic advice at this very difficult time for me. I have spent the whole day cleaning and rearranging the terrace. I think I am almost half way done. First I removed the eggs. They went right back to sit on their nests regardless. One female will not leave. She has tried to fight me off with her wings. I had to lift her up and throw her into the air. Thinking about this brings tears in my eyes. We are talking here about a wild pigeon.

I stayed on the terrace until it got dark, about 8:30. I kept chasing them away all day. I think there are only about 10 of them who sleep on the terrace regularly. I saw them trying to find the sleeping spots on the building across, the rest of them disappeared one by one as it got dark.

It's about 5:30 AM right now and I am getting ready for another day.

[Lovebirds]

Originally Posted by ante bozanich

Thanks everyone and specially Lovebirds. I needed and I appreciate very much your sober, pragmatic advice at this very difficult time for me. I have spent the whole day cleaning and rearranging the terrace. I think I am almost half way done. First I removed the eggs. They went right back to sit on their nests regardless. One female will not leave. She has tried to fight me off with her wings. I had to lift her up and throw her into the air. Thinking about this brings tears in my eyes. We are talking here about a wild pigeon.

I stayed on the terrace until it got dark, about 8:30. I kept chasing them away all day. I think there are only about 10 of them who sleep on the terrace regularly. I saw them trying to find the sleeping spots on the building across, the rest of them disappeared one by one as it got dark.

It's about 5:30 AM right now and I am getting ready for another day.

Ante,
I thought about you this morning believe it or not. I know this is so hard but you are doing the right thing and hopefully the birds will be ok thanks to you. Don't worry about that one hen. They do that........stay on the nest even after you take the eggs, but she won't stay on it for long. Most likely she'll get up and leave the nest this morning. Just keep up the good work and know that what you are doing is, in the long run, going to save lives.........It's pretty easy to GIVE advice.......LOL, but I know if I was in your shoes, I'd have this empty feeling in the pit of my stomach too and would hate every minute of what had to be done. You are very courageous and next week this time, I hope you'll have good news......that the "pests" came and did their thing and all your babies survived in spite of them.

[Charis]

Believe me, Ante, I know how much this hurts you. It's so painful to frighten away and deny food to creatures that you cherish and have become valued family members.
Renee is right. You have to do this to save their lives.
They are free. They belong to themselves. You've done all that you can for them with the exception of frightening them away.
When you feel alone and sad, please remember that so many of us carry you in our hearts.

[Larry_Cologne]

Ante,

Popping a balloon to frighten the pigeons away may or may not have the desired effect.

When I see a pigeon seemingly oblivious to an approaching car, or having a devil-may-care attitude, I have a number of times clapped my hands loudly (hands cupped for a percussive effect, rather than the sharper slapping sound made with flattened palms and straight fingers, and it has worked well. However, I am on the floor above street level, the street is relatively narrow, and bordered by five or six-story tall brick and concrete buildings, which reflect and echo the sound well, especially when wet.

I do not know your street lay-out. Terraces with plants and such may absorb such sounds, and being higher up may diminish the effects of frightening noises. Testing balloon popping will make the birds somewhat accustomed to such noises.

If you know the time of the appointment, since they probably must arrange the time with you, and you may even arrange for a postponement due to more urgent matters, perhaps you can put out some seed for the birds elsewhere. Put out some stuff they like which gets their attention, is not conpsicuous, keeps them occupied and happy (such as black rapeseed) a block or so away where they can safely get to it. Putting it out an hour or so before should work, in my opinion.

My rescued-as-a-baby and hand-raised male Wieteke comes for food every day, but lives on the street now. I try not to let him get overly dependent on me, although I monitor his health and medicate him regularly. We were gone a week recently, and he spent much time at the window waiting for us (as opposed to doing the same thing on someone else's window elsewhere), and when we returned he was as fat and happy and scrappy as ever, and hadn't lost any weight. Well, maye he wasn't so happy, since he is angry with me (as far as I can tell) for denying him his nesting territory.

I wish you the best. It's not the end of the world (except for the pigeon eggs), andd it may turn out to be the best in the long run for all involved. Neighbors who have been inconvenienced will perhaps not develop stronger, fiercer feelings against the pigeons if they no longer feel threatened; they and the apartment manager will achieve the desired effects without too much fuss and bother. But the best result, even though it is hard even for me to appreciate it, since I like close-up interaction with pigeons, is that the pigeons will not become too dependent on a particular food source. Of course, the pigeons would argue with what I have said. They are more than happy to have a restaurant with good, healthful cuisine available without much ado. But in the event that something would happen to you, they would not be the ones to suffer unduly. (In a sense, that "something" is happening to you now, but you will still be around, in the viicnity, to monitor their well-being).

What kind of smell repels bird control people? Something fresh and minty? If they are general pest control people, you might drive them away by acting desperately pleased to have them there, hanging onto them with a weird longing in your eyes, complaining about mysterious spirits in the form of alien microbes that are beamed by cell phone microwave stations over your phone line, or whatever. I'm being silly, a bit facetious here.

A cable service salesman knocked on my apartment door once, and at the time I didn't have a TV and didn't have much time for watching one. But I was very helpful, telling him about the upstairs lady who ran the dry cleaners and laundry down the block, the retired neighbor who would be back in an hour or so, and so on, and then became aware that he was backing down the stairs, eager to escape. He wanted to make money, but didn't want to work at it. I then realized that I was getting to the age where I can appear desperate to be of use to someone, and kept this revelation in mind for future use.

You might be so pleased to see them because once a bug -- surely it was a bug -- slipped out of your grocery bag, and there may have been more than one, although for sure you saw only one, they're so quick, and after five years they may have multiplied, even though you insect -bombed the place twice a week for five months thereafter, and afterwards a neighbor's dog down the block acted sort of funny but don't tell anyone please, because you think it was the food his owner fed him and not your insect bombs, and can they give you advice on what to do with turtles, and so on. And no, you don't wear turtleneck sweaters anymore.

We all love to be lied to. It's called entertainment. Fiction. We don't watch the eveniing news team or CNN following parking ticket teams around night after night.

Wife needs to strap me in for the night. All the best,

Larry

[mr squeaks]

Well, Larry, you certainly were in rare humor today (if that is the "right" word to use!)

Keep up the great work. We can use all the suggestions we can get. However, I must say that to do what YOU SAID and DID, does take a special person...you are a true "natural!"

Hopefully, your wife will unstrap you during the day to post other helpful suggestions! ROFL




All kidding aside, Ante...I am really sorry about the worry you are going through. Hopefully, ALL will end well...we will be looking forward to your updates!

Shi

[ken_sturrock]

Although I suspect that the "exploding pigeon poison" is a myth, all the advice has been good to remember. The primary rule for helping out Feral Pigeons is "Avoid Attention". Unfortunately, this is often the case even if you are a property owner - let alone at the whim of a land lord.

There is something about the gentlest and most vulnerable birds that brings out the cruelness in people.

-Ken

[ante bozanich]

I only have a minute. Exterminators are coming here in about four hours. I have done all and the best I could. I'll fill you up on what's been going on and how things went, as soon as I can. Wish me and pigeons good luck. We need it.

Thanks everyone for your help and support.

[cyro51]

Hi Ante,

Hopefully the pest control company are just on a "pigeon proofing" mission. If they resort to poisoning or harming the birds in any other way please register your own strongly worded complaint, emphasising the distress that it caused you and and would cause to any compassionate animal lover. We pigeon lovers also have the right to complain. (Have you noticed that more weight is given to complaints than positive remarks?).

I am glad that you had time to prepare. So often we feel that by our own actions we have brought our birds to the attention of the authorities but I think that without our intervention they would meet a worse fate and sooner.

Please let us know what the outcome of the visit is.

Cynthia