Need Advice About Babies Leaving The Nest

[phyll]

I'm sure that all the information I need can be found on the site. If someone would please answer me on this thread, I would appreciate it.

As some of you already know, Bob & I have been feeding 2 feral cats who are living under an overpass ~ a very wide one. We feed them during the night because the area has tons of traffic, & people are passing all the time.
In fact, the poor cats are literally trapped there. They are surrounded on all sides by many lanes of traffic.

Many pigeons roost in the beams directly over the street, none in the secluded part. Maybe they did roost there, but changed their location because of the cats.
When we began these nightly trips (18 nights ago), I looked up & saw no pigeons.
There are areas where lots of poop & feathers are on the ground though.
There is a BIG load at one particular spot, which I had noticed from the beginning. The other night I went over & looked up at the beam.
My heart dropped when I saw a mother on her nest.

Here are my questions:
If the eggs had already hatched, would the mother be sitting perfectly still on the nest? That's what she is doing now. Around how old would the babies be for the mother not to be sitting directly on them? If the babies were born already, would the father be standing with the mother during the night?
Last winter, we fed pigeons in a parking garage at the mall. It was at night, & I remember seeing 2 pigeons at many of the nests.

Once the babies fly, do they return to the nest or is that it?
Also, their first time out of the nest, do they know not to hang-out on the ground ~ at least when it's dark? Do they ever spend nights on the ground because they don't have the strength to fly high yet?

Bob & I have gone to the area in daylight, so I could try to see if babies were in the nest. The bottom of the overpass is on a steep slant (you know what I mean), or I would bring a ladder. Maybe I'll try that anyway.
Standing close & also at a distance, even using binoculars, I still couldn't tell if there were babies or eggs under the mother.

On a first flight, do you think a baby would be able to
escape a cat?

I'm so worried for the babies! I can't imagine what the poor mother is thinking with the cats there.
Apparently, the cats sleep during the day, because we have only seen them at night. We stopped there a couple of times in daylight, & they were not around.
They hang out in tall grass alongside of the overpass.

We are trying to capture the cats. Both are wary, but one seems a little more comfortable about sticking around now. A few nights ago, I started to place their food in a carrier.

Please share any thoughts. Thanks.

Phyll

[L.L.]

Hi Phyll
I Dont Know Much About Baby Pigeons But I Do Know When Baby Robins,sparrows Ad Blue Jays Leave The Nest They Dont Go Back To It Their Parents Feed Them In The Trees And When If They Do Fly To The Ground They Are Very Easy Pray For Cats ,hope All Goes Well For Them And The Cats Also.
L.l.

[pdpbison]

Hi Phyll,


Well, 'Beam Nesters' of course have dangers for their Babys which more spacious Ledge Nesters or other Nest sites tend to have less of.


The Babys will tend to start ambulating somewhat anyway once about two weeks old or so, some sooner, some later, and it depends on the parents, too...

Very young Babys of only a week old or so can also accidently jostle themselves or eachother 'out' of a smallish or narrow Nest and fall, if the Nest is on a Beam of other narrow place. They can get pretty wound up sometimes when feed-time comes around.

But once the Babys are walking and goofing around a little, they can fall of course, just as you are worried about.

This would tend to be during the daylight hours or right after dawn maybe...and not likely at night when they would tend to be staying put more.

Where the Eggs are in their incubaiton presently, I could not guess...but the incubation time is 18 days typically, so, just figure on that as a guide for when they should pip...then a week or so from there start keeping your eyes peeled in case one of the Babys falls for some reason.

More likely would be a fall at around two weeks old or three, or a little more...

But it could happen anytime...and when the parents are feeding the (typically 'two' , sometimes one) Babys, the Baby who is being fed is pretty assertive and rambunctious, and the one who is trying to get fed, even more so...so, on a narrowish Beam or the likes, this can lead to a fall for one or both of them...


In fact, you could even put some padding on the ground where you suppose they might land, and that might help ease them if it does happen...or even a large based wide Carton with padding in the bottom, to contain them if they fell...

Some Pigeopn pairs elect very poor Nesting places, so be sure to scold them!

I always do when I see it..!


Phil
Las Vegas

[phyll]

We returned from feeding the cats a little while ago. Now I'm a step closer to a nervous breakdown.

Tonight, the mother pigeon was moving a bit on the nest as I walked over to that area.
Before I even got close, I heard peeping. I was so excited & happy ~ it's the first time I've ever heard the sound of baby pigeons. Well, that I know of, anyway.

My joy turned to heightened worry, because time is of the essence.
I know there are babies in the nest, but I have no idea how old they are; I'm really scared for them.

I was at the top of the incline (under the overpass) doing "cat" stuff, when Bob called me & pointed to a pigeon on the ground.
The cats were out watching me AND the pigeon. It was the mother pigeon. She had landed near the water, which is at the bottom of the overpass. I guess she wanted a drink, but I was worried about the cats getting her, so I told Bob to go over to her.
When he approached, she flew up to safety, but not near her nest.
It was about 3:30 A. M., so it surprised me that she had left her nest in the middle of the night.
With the mother off the nest, the babies were really loud. I know the cats can hear them.

We gotta do something FAST to protect those babies.
Please say a prayer for them. Thanks.

Phyll

[Trees Gray]

Hi Phyll,

I am so sorry to hear about this new dilemna...what a situation!

The pigeons had to be very desperate for a nesting area, because they are not a bit comfortable on the ground.

All I can say, thank God you are feeding the cats, especially now, they may not have that great a desire to go near the babies cause they aren't hungry, but may just out of curiosity and plain down right INSTINCT.

If the babies were very loud they may be older then a few days, especially if mom is not sitting on them during the night.

Are you considering moving/rescuing the babies, if the cats can't be caught?

[mr squeaks]

Sure wishing the BEST for the baby pijies and momma!

Treesa - unfortunately, even well fed cats will go after birds IF they can catch them. The females can be the worst as they are usually the best hunters! That what cats do - hunt - if they are feral and even domesticated!

Hope you can capture the cats too, Phyll. Do you have any of those humane traps used to capture ferals??

[phyll]

Bob & I made an attempt to get the netting up, but aborted the mission. I climbed the ladder while Bob held it, but was too afraid to let go of it with both hands, well, for more than a few seconds.
I NEEDED both hands to get the job done.
It would have been a different story if the ladder hadn't been on a steep incline.
Bob doesn't weigh much more than I, so I wasn't too comfortable with him holding the ladder.

While I was up on the ladder, I said, "I can't get hurt, I have no insurance." Bob said, "That's what I was thinking about." That was it, brother!
I figured that if he KNEW he could hold the ladder with me on it, he wouldn't have been thinking about me getting hurt! We needed another person to help.
It had to be someone who would be willing to come with us to Queens during the night, to hold a ladder under an overpass.

This IS New York, so ya gotta be careful about what you're doing, & when & where you're doing it!
Lemme see, who the heck am I going to ask?

Ah-hah! I'll ask another "pigeon" person for help.

To help some baby pigeons, I was sure they wouldn't mind going out during the night, or taking the risk of being arrested.
With no questions asked, the "pigeon" person agreed to help. GOOD FOR HER!
While Bob (who HAS coverage) climbed the ladder, she & I held it.
We received a few questioning looks from people walking by, but no one said anything.
Thanks be to God, Bob was able to secure the netting.

As he was working in the vicinity of the nest, the mother pigeon flew off & there was no sound from the babies. I began to worry about them.
I wasn't in peace, so, after we brought the lady home, we went back to the overpass. Thankfully, the mother had returned & was sitting on the nest.

The next night, she was off the nest when we arrived during the night. Again, there was silence, so I was really worried about the babies.

Last night, YEAY!
When we arrived, the mother was at the nest & the babies were screaming louder than ever. It was dark, but I could see them moving.
For some reason, when we happen to be there around 3:30 A. M., they are awake.
Actually, I don't know how the pigeons or the cats ever get any sleep. The roar of the cars & trucks passing overhead (even during the night) on the Long Island Expressway, is almost deafening.

I am still worried about the cats getting the babies when they first leave the nest. One of the cats was entering the carrier every night to eat, & was allowing me to get a lot closer. I was certain I would be able to capture her within a matter of days.

Since our "netting" adventure three nights ago, things have changed.
On that night, she didn't enter the carrier to eat, same thing for these past two nights.
Hopefully, she will enter it again tonight.

Phil ~ thanks for the information. I didn't realize how little I knew about nesting babies.

Treesa ~ The thought of rescuing the babies crossed my mind, but I felt bad for the poor mother. If I can capture the cats, everything will be okay.
By tomorrow, I should be able to speak with an expert cat rescuer about this situation.
I remember reading that a nest shouldn't be moved, for fear of the parents not recognizing the nest as their own.
It would have to be moved pretty far (across the street) in order for the cats not to be a threat.

Shi ~ Thank you for mentioning the humane traps. That would sure be a lot simpler than trying to creep up on the carrier to close the door.

Thanks to LL also.

Phyll

[Rockie]

Phyll, I was getting worried about you. Did you get my email? I really wish you would have called me. The 3am thing is tough, but I do have the hav-a-heart trap needed. I could bring it to you and show you how it works if you want.

There may be a pigeon out of my area that I may need to rescue tomorrow, but I definitely have to see a customer in Westbury before 4pm as well. If you want I could bring it then. Let me know.

Thanks for making the baby pijies that much safer and for looking out for the kitties too. If you've found a cat rescue person that is wonderful, ones that are not overwhelmed are hard to find.

[phyll]

Thank you very much for the offer, Leslie, that's very kind of you. Don't worry about bringing the trap here today, I may not need it.
I will call you later.
Thanks, again.

Phyll

[pdpbison]

Good luck Phyll..!


Cat-wise...


Peeper-wise...!


Phil
Las Vegas

[Trees Gray]

Thanks for the update Phyll.

I'm glad you all were able to secure the netting, to keep the babies safe.

Hopefully when they fledge they will fly away from the cats when their natural instinct of fear kicks in, or hopefully the cats will have been caught and rescued by then.

We appreciate all your efforts in the early hours of morning and will say a prayer for your succesful rescue of both cats.

[phyll]

Using a trap we borrowed from Leslie, Bob & I were able to capture both of the cats yesterday.
Good thing, too, because the pigeon babies are 3 weeks old now.

An interesting thing I discovered, was that when we left the area, the mother pigeon had been coming down from her nest to eat the cat food. Over these weeks, whenever I put the food down for the cats, we would hang-out at the overpass for a while. I would talk to them, hoping they would become comfortable, & know we were not a threat.
They never approached the food until we were a distance away. With time, the distance became shorter & shorter.
After the trap was placed last night, Bob & I returned to the car & I watched through binoculars.

All of a sudden, I saw this little white dot on the ground travelling up the incline under the overpass.
The mother pigeon is dark with white tips on her wings.
I said, "Oh, God! Let's go!"
Bob didn't know what was happening, but jumped out of the car when I did; we hurried back to the overpass.

The mother pigeon was walking around the area where I had been placing the food for the cats for the past five weeks.
She apparently knew that when we left, there would be food there. The area isn't visible from the nest site. I'm glad I didn't know she was eating their food! It was bad enough worrying every single day about the cats getting the baby pigeons. I would have been more of a wreck, thinking about the cats grabbing the mother also.

I left food for the pigeons in areas where it would be safe for them, where the cats couldn't sneak up on them. At the beginning of this adventure, I only left food for the cats, because I was afraid to feed the pigeons because of the cats.
I guess the mother pigeon started to eat the cat food long ago, so, naturally, she would continue to go to that spot.

Yesterday, Oct.4th, was the Feast of St. Francis of Assisi. He is the patron saint of animals. Bob & I prayed & asked him to intercede for us to be able to capture the cats.
If you know me, you know that we asked St. Theresa of the Child Jesus (among others) to intercede also.
Everything worked out for the pigeons & the cats. I thank God for answering our prayers favorably.

Thank you, Leslie, for allowing us to borrow the trap, for your advice & support.

Phyll

[Reti]

Congatulations Phyll and Bob, great rescue.
Thanks for the update.
I am so glad the cats and pigeons are safe now.

Reti

[Trees Gray]

That is THE BEST NEWS!

Thanks to all your hard work, and continued support and care of these cats thru these weeks, they are now SAFE. Also, you helped secure the pigeon babies too and now they are doing fine and will continue to thrive.

You went way beyong the call of duty in procuring their dafety, and I appreciate it.

It has been quite a wonderful day then, possibly a miracle, and St. Francis was watching over them too, and I'm sure the prayers helped.

[TAWhatley]

Well done, Phyll and Bob! Thank you so much for your efforts to assist both the cats and the birds.

Terry