Neighbours called Health Inspector

[NumberNine]

Not much I can help except to tell you to use a camcorder.

A picture is just a picture. People usually don't like to be recorded on tape. If you would have come out in your backyard and made sure you were visible to them, that you were actually filming their actions, they might have removed it sooner.

Moreover, a tape carry a larger burden of proof than a picture. In particular if they start yelling, shouting at you and its recorded on tape.

I think if you start using a camcorder and you make sure you are visible to them when filming them, they might reduce their activities.

You could have also provided the tape to a TV station.

[kittypaws]

Hi Jules,

I don't have any hints and tips because I live in the UK ( different laws etc) but I just wanted to stress my anger at seeing those poor birds caught up. I too, here in the UK, have been having a running battle for over 2 years with a row of properties that have wire netting on the top floors and I have seen on occassions, poor dead pigeons caught up - god know how they suffered. I have also been able to arrange the rescue of about 4 as still alive and using the RSPCA (Royal Society for Protection of Animals) and threatening police action etc) the birds have been rescued, but it always turns my stomach to see the twisted sight of a poor pigeon all tangled up. I can't imagine how horrible it must have been for you to see that every day.

I know from my own experience, that although there are statutes in UK law which could conclude this to be animal cruelty, deliberately trapping and untold suffering, a lot of this is just not deemed important enough. I recently was threatened with court if I did not retract a defamatory comment I made about one owner of one of the properties and stop the RSPCA from building a legal case. I had to do it as I would not win - I don't think anyone has ever taken a pigeon netting issue to the courts unfortunately. I do monitor the situation and all of the properties have either now repaired their netting which I still don't like as it can always happen again) or replaced the netting with spikes. Touch wood there are no trapped birds for over 4 months....long may it stay that way.

I hope that your situation improves and something can be done. If it is fine mesh then other protected birds could be trapped and are people allowed to break bird's necks just like that. That seems wrong to me when they don't own the birds..... rotten old world sometimes.

Tania

[NumberNine]

Julianne,

After reading Kittypaws' post, it reminded me: There is law in Ontario against cruelty to animals. If you catch a bird, like in a cage, and do not provide it food and water and the bird dies, then you are guilty of cruelty to animals and will end up in front of a judge.

I am surprised by the reaction you got from the Humane society.

I don't know the legal implications of catching birds in a fishing line mesh and killing them by twisting their necks. But if you catch a bird and let it die of starvation/dehydration in Ontario, you have commited a criminal act.

[cyro51]

Hi Jules,

I received an almost immediate reply from Bill of the Etobicoke Humane Society which I will be forwarding to you.

Cynthia.

[Keys & Eyegone]

I don't know about any of you, but I'm a very blunt and straight foward person. If my neighbor was caughting birds perpisly in a net and felt them to die, I would have taken an axe and chopped those poles down and drug them away and I would keep on doing it until something has been done about it. Most likely they would call the police for distuction of property, then I would have told them my situation and demand a frether ivestigation about it. But that's just me and my stubbornness.
Jules don't get my wrong, you did do the right thing by getting those pictures and would highly recommand (if it does happen again) to get the video tapings of it like NumberNine said. I'm sorry that the OSPCA isn't helping you out. If you lived here I would have made our ACOs and APO to go out and ivestigate it. I guess all you can do is wait for things to unfold and go from there.
Good luck with your neighbor.
Hilary Dawn

[feralpigeon]

Hi Hillary,

Think I'd be mad enuf to do that, but if I did and got arrested, I'd be of little use behind bars and broke after bail & the rest that would surely become of it. But I do understand the sentiment .

I should've put this link in earlier when I posted about motion activated cameras. These cameras aren't bad, although I don't know what your $$ circumstances are, Jules. I had a situation w/a drug house (unusual here in Oakland ) & was amazed at what an impact having a couple of these will do in a prominent, visible place. They can hook up to your vcr. Really changes the dynamic. I made sure they were visible.

http://www.x10.com/products4/overtur...238e004382ac83

The sites a bit cheesy, but the motion cameras work & are cheap, they take pics thru the window as well.
fp

[cyro51]

IMO it was Jules' report to the Humane Society that prompted the neighbours to take down the nets and replace them with flags...and to take revenge by reporting her to the health inspector.

This is what Bill said:

Hello Cynthia,

I read through the links and looked at the photos. Willfully harming
animals is a federal office in Canada. Pigeons are indeed animals. This
case is definitely worth investigating. The Avian Flu is a very serious
thing, but the hysteria surrounding it does not give an individual the right
to torture, and kill at ones will.

Jules mentions that she sent this information to The Toronto Humane Society
and the OSPCA. Animal Protection in the city of Toronto is broken down into
districts. If this is in the boundaries of "Etobicoke" I will personally
look into it. If in another region, I will ensure that it is looked into.

If this was reported to the OSPCA, then I am sure with all certainty that an
OSPCA Cruelty Officer has gone to the residence. It is possible that they
have not gotten back to Jules yet, but all complaints are investigated.

Is it possible to get the following information:
Address and Phone Number of Jules. This remains confidential.
Address of the neighbors.

Just to set the record straight. There is a bill before parliament to
increase the penalties for animal cruelty, but it keeps getting stalled. At
present, the maximum penalty is 6 months in jail and/or $2000 fine plus a
judge could order that a person not own an animal for a maximum of 2 years.
Penalties for puppy mills in Ontario are a little more severe. In Ontario,
animal cruelty falls under the jurisdiction of the Ontario SPCA.

Thanks and kind regards,

I have forwarded the e-mail to Jules so that she can send him her details.

Jules, if you haven't received it please contact me and I will re-send.

Cynthia

[naturegirl]

I think this is absolutely Outragous... Remember one thing... pictures and pictures and more pictures, pictures don't lie and he said she said in court doesn't go anywhere. Too bad you can't cut the net down, I would and wouldn't think twice about it...then again I have been told I should be an animals attorney as animals have rights too just no one thinks so.. Good Luck with your fight and I am saying a special prayer that someone listens to you as pigeons are very super sweet birds and make great pets too

Cindy (Naturegirl)

[alaska]

Hi Jules,
I too agree that this is an absolutely terrible event unfolding with your neighbour. This person must be a terribly cruel vicious person to wish to do harm to any animal, especially on the scale that you are talking about with nets and neck breaking...totally horrendous!!
My first thoughts on the topic are similar to those already posted above by others here.
Use as much as you can to build your case against this person including documenting everything (as you have started with your camera), and call in as many people as possible to see this, including native protection agencies and check out the building laws.
Please keep us updated on what happens.

Tats,
I too live in Australia...and know of that 'scare'...however it was only a 'scare' that was blown out of preportion by scaremongering media.

The truth of the matter was only a few birds tested positive for avain flu antibodies...and these antibodies were not even for the H5N1 strain, but indeed for a very mild version of 'non-lethal' flu. These anti-bodies were injected into the birds to prevent them from catching another form of bird flu as a preventative, and were nothing to be concerned about.
The main reason these birds were destroyed and sent back was because a few also carried the Newcastle Disease that we do not have here in Aus.
This entire incident was blown out of proportion by media during the initial onset of fear of the 'killer bird flu', and does not disprove any statements above.
Infact it only shows peoples ignorance, fear and gullability, and how mis-information can be very dangerous.

Regards
Alaska

[Cricket]

What about building a loft and capturing these pigeons in order to keep them safe from this darkened soul??? What about raising a fund to help you put such a loft together??? I know that I would donate!

[Cameron]

It's hard to believe so much heartless cruelty is born out of fear and ignorance but that is the way some people are. Glad to hear the fence has come down and hopefully it will stay that way. I agree the birds have to be moved to another area for their own safety even though you have enjoyed having them feed at your place in the past. I read a post somewhere on this forum where the person moved their pigeons so many feet away from his/her home each day until they were all relocated elsewhere. Maybe you could try that. Your kind actions will probably save their lives.

If your neighbor persists in harming Wildlife I would definately get hold of your community newspaper. Almost all have someone on staff who writes articles about birdwatching, nature etc. Talk to that columnist, have them visit this site, show some pictures and go after your neighbor with a little unwanted publicity.

[Al & Bobby]

Originally Posted by tatts

My coments were only that a DR of V.Science had made a statement to the effect that pigeon's didn't get the avien virous.But you need the virous to biuld the anti bodies,So I've been led to believe
TATTS

Hi

They have the antibodies because the virus went into them. But they destroyed it. That leaves antibodies. Pigeons don't get the kind of bird flu virus that people can catch.

When it was injected into them by the USDA, the virus disappeared right away, and they didn't get sick.

This means they don't carry it, either. We should keep telling people about it. Most likely the pigeon haters think they have a good excuse.

The NY Times at least pointed out that pigeons won't be a transmitter. It wasn't complete in its article but almost.

[Esftumbler]

Go to Keyword NPAUSA and located link to a printable vet disclaimer on health risk of pigeons.
Bill in Florida