Neighbours called Health Inspector

[Jules]

My neighbour cut down their 50 foot cedars two years ago and my flock of 35 - 40 ferals now fly over their property. They are livid about this and this summer they put up a fishing line mesh barrior across their property (up to 15' height and 25' long). This captures all birds that fly into this invisible fence. They leave the birds there for hours at a time then come out and break the bird's neck. Sickening. I've sent pictures to OSPCA - no response yet.
Anyway... they replaced it last week with hanging shreaded flags and now I know why. They've sent a Public Health Inspector over to me to complain about the health risks assosicated with pigeon droppings. She left me a phone message and has now dropped off a photo copy of all these "potential" diseases.
I want to plan a rebuttal course of action and I wanted all of your suggestions/ information.

(sorry for the edit - my computer is doing weird things)

Let me know your thoughts. Thanks.

Julianne

[andinla]

I would try and move them to a nearby park, they will follow you on foot if it isn't to far.

The following are quotes from credible experts with
the REAL FACTS about pigeons and public health:

"The New York City Department of Health has no
documented cases of communicable disease transmitted
from pigeons to humans." - Dr. Manuel Vargas, New York
City Department of Health.


# “We do have some concern about the indiscriminate
killing of pigeons.” “[For example, histoplasmosis
disease rates are] misleading and irrelevant, because
histo’s so ubiquitous. It’s in the soil, regardless of
whether pigeons are around or not...”- Dr. Marshall
Lyon, National Center for Infectious Diseases, Centers
for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in Atlanta


# "Pigeons do not get avian influenza and don't carry
the virus," Dr. Cornelius Kiley, DVM, Canadian Food
Inspection Agency



"[...the Arizona Department of Health Services does]
not have any documented human cases of disease which
have been definitively linked to outdoor pigeons or
pigeon droppings. When cases of diseases are reported
(and by law [certain bird related zoonoses are]
reportable diseases), VBZD staff conduct complete
investigations to confirm the diagnosis and identify
the source of infection. …Our case investigation data
gathered so far, would suggest that pigeons are not
significant as a cause of human disease in Arizona."




# "I am not aware of any reported cases of diseases
that were transmitted by pigeons in Mohave County." -
Larry Webert, R.S., Mohave County Environmental Health
Division


# “We don’t see pigeon-related-disease problems...” “I
don’t think they’re seeing them anywhere..." - Bill
Kottkamp, Supervisor, Vector Control, St. Louis County
Health Department


# "'People worry that pigeons carry disease,' but
the danger is 'an exaggeration created by pest control
companies looking for business.'" - Guy Hodge,
Naturalist for the Humane Society of the United
States.


# "Pigeons are not a public health hazard. Nobody in
public health is losing any sleep over pigeons." - Dr.
Joel McCullough, Medical Director, Environmental
Health, Chicago Department of Public Health

[Trees Gray]

I'm so sorry to hear about your feral pigeons.

Click on the following:

http://www.urbanwildlifesociety.org

Click on rock dove, then public health risks posed by wild pigeons.

[Reti]

OMG, this is so sickening and unfortunately it is happening over and over again everywhere.
All I can suggest is stop feeding them and move them to another location. Your neighbor sounds like he is sick.
People just can't understand that pigeons don't pose any more health risk than any other bird.
I am so sorry you have to go through this.

Reti

[pittsburgh24]

Mention to your local wildlife protections or Humane Society that you saw protected species (if there are any in Canada) come into contact with it.
Don't give up, this is a very cruel death to the birds.

[Keys & Eyegone]

Jules,
This is SICKENING!!!! Don't call the SPCAs they cannot do anything about it but do get ahold of the APO (Animal Protection Officer). There HAS to be at least ONE for every distict in Canada. They will do a formal investigation on the matter and with you having pictures proves your case and can be passed into the hands of the courts. The animal cruelty law is in the prosess of changing here in Canada. Ones found guilty can be fined up to $10,000 and at least a year in jail or 1000hrs of community service and will NEVER be able to have an animal for the rest of their life. I don't remember all the details but I know we at the SPCA are VERY happy about it.
I would not rest until some one comes in a takes a look at YOUR side of the story. One of my neighnors tried the same this with the health issues and I threw a lot of things back in his face and I haven't had any problems from him since (but he moved, so it's all good, must have gotten fet up with me taking a stand). I'm working tomorrow so if you have any questions about the laws of the animal protection act just ask and I'll personally find out for you.
Good Luck!!
Hilary Dawn

[JGregg]

If your neighbors are putting out nets, then they're catching native birds as well as pigeons. Here in the States it's illegal to catch native species without a permit, hopefully thing are the same way in Canada. Keys and Eyegone has got it right on the nose! Rat your neighbors out to the Canadian Fish and Game Dept. Frankly I wouldn't tell them anything about pigeons being involved, concentrate on the fact that your neighbors are netting and killing birds. If the're snapping the necks of pigeons that they catch I'm positive that they're doing the same to any native birds that they catch.

[feralpigeon]

Hi Jules,

I am so sorry to hear about your neighbor's behavior, what an outrage. Seems like this person is unbelievably cruel, and in order to do "battle" with them it will
use up lots of time on your part, but hopefully you will be successful. Is it possible for you to have @ your continued access a time stamped digital camera that is able to document any and all changes and/or events w/digital time stamp? Pictoral document. Keep a journal as well, specific to this situation if you can.

Also, what are your building codes like? Is it legal to build a fence w/extensions that high? Many times building codes will not let fences above a certain height at the property lines here in the states. Something to check into. Make sure that ALL of his alterations/actions are "legal".

A motion activated camera on the net might be good if this is within your means. They can be had from internet. Watch them as diligently as they watch you, unfortunately. And, in the meantime, you'll also have to keep your antenna out for your flock w/a possible relocation effort in mind if they are in continued harms way.

Instead of being on the defensive and getting caught up in protracted conversations w/this person from Public Health, I would get him into the same defensive corner he/she wished you to be in and get them on the defensive w/as many of the issues that Hilary & JGregg have raised as you can.

Best,

fp

[tatts]

I'm from Australia and I'm afraid that the quote from Dr Cornelius Kiley must be outdated or false.Australian quarentine only last month refused a shipment of pigeons because of the detection of anti bodies carried by three racing pigeons in a consignment from Canada,These were destroyed and the rest sent back.The cost of the shipment exceded three million dollars Australian,so please be careful of some of the statements some people state,I think that this one can't be right. Taats

[tatts]

The avian flue virous that I'm talking about is the H5M1 which has had a deverstating effect on a lot of country's so far,Believe me this virous has mutated and no bird will be safe soon,nor humans apparently!
Tatts

[cyro51]

I wish you had told us about the net sooner, Jules! Bill of the Etobicoke Humanitarian Society was wonderful when someone had trapped pigeons and other bird behind a net on his balcony and was leaving them to die.

Try to draw the pigeons awayt from danger, but you must aalso persevere with your action against your neighbours.

Do the pigeons perch on your neighbour's roof? If not, then they really can have no objections to birds flying in the sky, can they! And you can point out that as pigeons don't poop in flight they are not dropping anyrthing either.

Maybe you can make this whole horrible situation work to your advantage by using the situation to highlight your neighbours' cruelty.

Keep your chin up, you are in the right here.

Cynthia

[cyro51]

Tatts, I believe that the current view is that it was not appropriate to cull pigeons that had antibodies against the virus as they posed no danger to either people or to other birds. This is the link that Cindy provided us with:


http://www.sundaytimes.news.com.au/c...5E1702,00.html

Cynthia

[badbird]

Originally Posted by pittsburgh24

Mention to your local wildlife protections or Humane Society that you saw protected species (if there are any in Canada) come into contact with it.
Don't give up, this is a very cruel death to the birds.

hahahah yeah! get those Jerkies next door! i would do something scandalous like that too. and then they break their necks? that is horrid

[tatts]

My coments were only that a DR of V.Science had made a statement to the effect that pigeon's didn't get the avien virous.But you need the virous to biuld the anti bodies,So I've been led to believe
TATTS

[Jules]

First of all, Thank you for your support in this issue. I can use all the help I can get.

Second... as I did mention in my first post, the neighbour has removed the mesh fence (Thank God).

I have set up the pictures at webshots. But please. It is NOT FOR THE FAINT OF HEART!
http://community.webshots.com/album/508085890wxCGhn
Let me know if the link doesn't work. I had sent emails of the shot to SPCA and Toronto Humane Society...sadly have heard nothing back. I will try and research this APO.
Several months ago (on another pigeon/neighbour matter) I even researched a wildlife lawyer... and the bottom line... he said that unless the judge was a pigeon lover, it would be an extremely expensive battle that I would lose. He's only one lawyer... if you know of any others in this area, please let me know.

The pigeons that are the issue are a small flock that I have tried to move in the past, but then they hook up with a huge flock (150+) and then they followed me home!
It took a long time to get back to the original 35 ish. They don't land on any other neighbour's property, only mine and the telephone lines across the street. If the pigeons were on the telephone line another neighbour used to take a two by four and pound the post till the birds flew off. This is situated at a junior school and when he saw me he started complaining but I told him that I'd had people tell me "that there's this crazy guy pounding the telephone post across the street where the junior school is and that I should call the police". He's a retired cop by the way. When I told him this, he huffed off... but has never pounded the post again. *haha*

The problem is that the pigeons fly over several neighbour's property and they say that their windows and deck etc are covered in pigeon droppings. The last time I spoke with one of them (the one that put up the mesh fence), I called to tell them that a bird was trapped - she just started yelling and going on about all the diseases and avian flu and she makes her husband wear gloves and a mask when "snapping the neck".

So... *shrug* that's the issue. Please keep the suggestions coming... I need all the help I can get.

Thanks

Julianne

nb: anybody know why I don't get "notified" when there are new posts? I used to and the settings are set to instant notification.