Sick pigeon friend wont eat or drink, Please Help

[sunsettractor]

Hello All,We are having a problem with our local visiting flock. We are in the high desert in so-cal,it has been extremely hot lately.I am a truck driver, after returning from my last trip and getting back in the routine of scattering seed in the yard for the birds I noticed a black and white pigeon hanging around in our yard even after the crowds had flown away.This bird was slower than the others when feeding, it casually walked at a slower pace and kind of picked here and there at the seed,while the other pigeons hurried and gobbled as much as they could before the speedy departure they do as a group. This bird was in our yard most every day, casually walking around as if it had nowhere to be, I was enjoying the visits but became concerned as it seemed more of a pet than a wild one, we have had hawk problems in the past and this bird did not seem to have any protective instinct like a pigeon should. I had approached the bird several times and was able to get within about ten feet before the bird whould fly a short distace away, or fly up on the roof, but it did not fly far away at any time when I approached. It looked like a healthy bird, nice and plump with with beautiful feathers, it has a pink beak. This routine went on for over a week, then I did not see the bird for several days. This last wednesday, I was outside and noticed a lone black and white pigeon under our car on the driveway, it was standing in the shade not moving for quite some time. I leaned down to look at him and he slowly walked over to the yard under a bush, I could see the bird was very thin and boney, at that time I thought this was the same one I had been watching for the last week or so.I was close enough to pick it up, when I reached down towards him he attempted to run away but instead fell over and tried to balance himself by spreading his wings.this poor bird was wasted away to nothing, skin and bones, hardly any body weight. I put the pidgy in a small cage we have and brought him in the house,It was about 110 degrees outside and horribly humid. I thaught if we could stabilize the bird now ,we could find help and treatment. Ran to the store and got piedilite, dribbled it over the beak,but bird not very responsive,put some in a dish and it took a drink or two. It was late ,we put some schredded paper in a shoebox inside the cage and left a dish of water and a little seed, hopefull to seeing him feeling a little better in the morning. At six the next morning my wife went in to check on him, he had fallen face first in the water dish and was dead. My wife and I are crushed,we thaught we were helping the little bird but now we feel we should have done more.
Friday afternoon I was in my den doing paperwork, I noticed a black and white pidgy sitting in a shallow water pan in the yard, no other birds around it was all alone. I watched for about ten minutes, he just sat in the pan. A flock came down into the yard to feed, the pidgy seemed excited as the area filled with feeding birds, but as I watched him, he seemed disoriented, the other pidgies were pecking at a hundred miles an hour, but he casually walked over to the feeding groups, pecked once or twice and just kind of looked like he did not see any seed, but there was seed all around. A large male started doing the romance dance around him and then tried to mount the bird I had been watching, only to knock the bird flat on the ground with its wings spread out both times. About that time the flock took off and there was the little black and white pidgy all alone again. It just stayed in the same place looking lost. I started to think this bird may be blind as well as ill, or maybe it was a young bird blind or vision impaired when hatched and once it left the nest ,ended up in our yard. If it is the same bird that I was seeing last week regularly, it had lost weight but was clean and in good condition feather wise. My Wife and I went out to look at the bird and he didnt run away, it looked like it didnt even see us, I was able to walk up behind him and scoop him up with a net. This bird looks almost identical to the other bird we found just two days ago that died, the color patterns and markings are very similar, is it possible these could be siblings, that both have a vision or other type of problem? Anyway, they both showed up in my yard, the first one barely alive and this one looking like he is on the same path, this bird has a great deal more body weight than the first one, the eyes are not clear, and the poops are green and watery, no white in it. We have him in a cage in my den, friday night we offered him water (pedielite ), he does not have any interest in it, or seed. We always have katee exact hand feeding formula on hand, we fed him a small amount every few hours with a syringe to try and get some nourishment in him as he wont eat or drink on his own. We did this several times through the night and this morning it appeared he had vomited some of the food up. Vomiting aside, he seemed a little heavier or less boney than the night before, but we cant get him to have any interest in food or water on his own at all. I have read other postings trying to find information on these symtoms, we are worried about this little birds condition and dont want to do anything to add to his suffering. We live in phelan ca,which is between victorville and palmdale in the upper desert, the only vet we know of that will see a wild bird, and not bankrupt us, is in san bernardino and will not be open till tuesday we think. We know this bird needs medical attention quickly if it is going to survive, tuesday im thinking may be too long to wait.We could really use some help with this if anyone has any ideas that could help, I would gladly bring the bird to someone who could help that is within a reasonable distance from our home, but I honestly cant go to an animal emergency clinic with a blank check and expect them to fix him all up. We also have many pet birds and are concerned for their safety as well, it would be helpful to know if the local birds have issues that could affect our house pets. If someone wanted to talk to us direct our phone # is 760-868-1096,call anytime collect if you want. Any help would be greatly appreciated, Sincerely,Tom & Kandi.

[pdpbison]

Hi Tom and Kandi,


May very well have been siblings, who underwent similar conditions to have gotten whatever this is...

Oye...

Does this one ( or did the other ) have White Nares? The soft fleshy area where their Beak and forehead meet?

Or..?

Can you post and images, side views of the whole Bird sort of close up? And a closer view of their profile?


Could be any of so many things effecting him...


The 'green' in the poops...rub some with a finger tip onto some white paper.

If it is like Paint, it is Bile...

...if it has fibre in it, it is fecal matter, showing some food was/is getting through...


Throwing up does sort of hint at somehting amiss in the Crop or digestion...


You could try mixing up some ACV-Water - three Tablespoons of raw Apple Cider Vinegar to a Gallon of Water...and, if you have the means, tube some amounts he can handle directly into his Crop ( make the ACV-Water body temperature first but no warmer than that...)


Might be a Candida problem...and if so this will help.


Does his Crop seem at all inflated or gassy or like it has Air in it?


Or, is it sodden, semi-full, and saggy or too firm to the touch?


What has been his posture or mode of standing?


Anyway, if the 'green' was fecal matter and not Bile, let him fast for now...


What was his Crop like before you were doing the KT?


Phil
l v

[mysweetybird]

I haven't been able to find a diagram anywhere that shows the location of a pigeon crop. On parrots you place the syringe over the tongue and put syringe on/in left side of beek/tongue and slowly push the plunger. I have never actually tube fed and have had good luck giving small amounts on the tongue and let the bird swallow but this little one just doesnt' have any interest in eating and very little in drinking. The last 2 young pigeons I finished off and we released actually ate out of a deep spoon in lest than 48 hours.

Origionally the poo was more solid and was fecal matter I am sure but now it is probably bile. It has degressed to very soft green and no white just clear ureta. I am at such a loss with this one. Sooo different than the many prev visitors to our unoffical bird haven. Tom will take some pics in the morning-- in a few hours and post them so you can see his / her posture etc. The keel bone is very pronounced and I am really worried at this point. Yesterday we were pretty sure of improvement but today is close to when we captured him/her. He isn't super steady but can perch on the edge of the shoebox next box . We use a natural remedy called colloidal silver water as well. It is a natural anti-bacterial agent and no matter how much you drink it can't hurt. It even kills ecoli so it is great stuff. Thanks for your info and we hope there is more to come. Sincerely, Kandi

[mysweetybird]

The nares or wattle are pink like the beak. I have read that yearlings have the white nares. This one has a kind of short pink beak and though I am sure it is young, it has full size tail and wings, unlike the youngsters we had just a couple months or so ago.

The crop did not seem puffy or gassy. It seemed fairly normal for lack of a better word. Any ideas why it would seem to perk up one day and then go back down the next? Except for being thin and not wanting to eat and drink the bird is in pretty good condition. The eyes are clear except for the pupil in the middle is kind of milky bluish but the pupil and outer area look well and clear. There is very little almost no reaction to light in one eye and the other shows some constriction when the light is shined in eye but does not get close to pin point like it should.

He/she sits with tail a bit low and wings folded. I guess with all the trying to make it eat and drink and examining it the poor dear heads back for the cage when we take it out. Occassionally it will flutter the wings to try to get down to the floor or up to window sill from the hands or lap.

Hope this helps till we can post some pics.

Thanks, Kandi

[pdpbison]

Hi Kandi,



Their Crop is front center, below their Neck, above their Keel...and in Pigeons is of much larger capacity I imagine, than in Parrots.

Probably, in young Bird or Birds who have become emaciated, the elastic capacity of their Crop may diminish and it then will seem quite small or flat.


Possibly something is compromising their Kidneys for there to be clear Urates.


Foggy Eyes can sometimes occur from dehydration...but also Viruses can do it, as well as that Viruses can adversely effect their Kidneys.


Earlier, I was thinking they may have drank some Antifreeze, where maybe someone had drained a radiator or something, making a puddle...but I do not know the symptoms and am too tired now to try and look them up in some 'googles'...but...


For now, for sure, keep up some Hydration, ideally with electrolytes...


Pigeon wise, one really should have some soft and supple 'tube' if one is to tube feed or tube 'water', as merely getting either just past the tongue, can readily fill up their Throat and the excess wells their Trachial aperature, risking getting either into their Lings and making deadly problems.


Appearently, he was either not finding food, or, feeling or being ill, was not interested in eating for quite some time, to have become emaciated.


Keep him 'warm' if he at all needs it, and likely he does.


Warm being about one's own body temp or a little more.


I would do the ACV-Water of it was me, even if adding ACV the Pedalite...where, say, instead of so much ACV to a Gallon of Water, do the math and add so much to a Pint or quart of the Pedalite. ( BAsed on Three Tablespoons of ACv to a Gallon, I;d do it but I am too tired to think math things at the moment...)


It can't hurt, and it might help...


Otherwise...if you can check their Throat under a bright Light...see if all is 'pink' and slightly moist...

You can wrap him gently like a 'Burrito' in two or three continuous paper towells, with his Head sticking out, and wrapping in a slight spiral down from there...and spigot the extra below his Tail, between your knees as you sit...this will hold him so you have both hands free to open his Beak and get a good look.


Or, if any saliva strings, purple tounge tip, or anything other than healthy 'pink' is to be seen...

Check his Vent, see if it is pink and clean and or if anything looks less than healthy and tidy with it.


Do you have any kinds of meds on hand?


Phil
l v

[Pidgey]

Gotta' tell ya', Tom... when I saw there was a post by "sunsettractor", my first thought went to Charlie, even though you haven't posted about him for a couple of years.

Sounds like it could be a bacterial infection that you need antibiotics for. In a straight line, Terry Whatley's about 60 miles due south of you but I couldn't tell you how much time or road mileage that is. She'd certainly know some rehabbers nearer to you that might have some supplies.

Pidgey

[feralpigeon]

From this Sticky in the Resource Section:

http://www.pigeons.biz/forums/showthread.php?t=15696

This link will give you a diagram if you scroll down to the end of the
page:

http://pigeoncote.com/vet/feedbaby/feedbaby.htm

There are other links there w/diagrams as well. Here's one from Foy's:

http://www.foyspigeonsupplies.com/health.html

The most common reasons for vomiting are Trichomonas, Bacterial infection
and worms, though given that your rescue has been in a compromised state
for a bit, s/he could be vomiting because the amount of food is too much
for them to handle. Exact is great, but if the bird does have Trichomonas/Canker, it might be better to give soaked puppy or kitty kibble
to the bird. You could soak it in water w/some CS in it and then push small
pieces to the back of the throat allowing the bird to swallow on its' own.
I'd continue feeding the bird and watch to make sure the bird is self-watering.
You may need to assist w/that if not drinking enough water given the heat.

I would try and get an anti-Canker med and a compatible antibiotic for the
bird. Quite possibly this and the other bird were nest mates and jouveniles.
You don't need to worry about your other birds if you are keeping them in separate cages and following common good hygiene practices. I've had birds
in the same room w/pets who have come in w/Paratyphoid or Avian Pox and
pets never contracted the illness from the rescue. Wear an apron or the
like specific for handling the rescue and not the rest of the birds. The main
concern should be bodily fluids such as saliva, blood, droppings, or the like....
Keep any utensils generated in by the care of the rescue separate and pre-soak in a solution of water 1/2 cup of Bleach to one gallon of water.
This will kill and viral/bacterial organism that the bird may have.

fp

[TAWhatley]

I'm about 80 miles from Phelan in driving distance. I'd be happy to take the bird if Tom or Kandi are up to the trip. There are some pigeon fanciers much closer who might have meds, but I doubt they would be up to taking in an urgent care case. I will start trying to reach a couple of these folks, and will update later.

Terry

[sunsettractor]

Hello again, We were up late last night, little bird seemed to be resting comfortably. We went in to check him at 8:00, this morning and he had passed away. I took him to the Animal health, food & safety lab in San Bernardino to be examined, they said they will call us in a couple of days with the exam results. Thank You all for your replies, I feel guilty that the only time I write on the forums is when we need help, I check in every so often and read the posts, Thanks again, Tom & Kandi in Phelan

[feralpigeon]

I'm sorry to hear about your second rescue's passing as well. Thank you so
much for being there and giving these two a safe and caring place in their time
of need.

fp

[TAWhatley]

I'm so sorry the little one didn't make it. Please do let us know what the lab results indicate.

Terry