Tameness Evaluation, Please? Also, cage bar width.

[Dezirrae]

Hi MizLiz,

Wanted to catch you while you were still online... if the piji was healthy a little bit of whole-wheat bread would be okay (I've seen that listed somewhere as acceptable food), but since you're still not sure what type (if any) of infection your little patient has I would avoid the bread for now. Sticking with seeds and grains is your best bet.

Don't rule out the 24 hr emergency clinics for avian treatment - just call before taking him/her there. Oh - and tell the vet it's your pet pigeon - many times that gets better attention than a rescue or feral.

Also, worse comes to worse I do have some Clavamox I can overnight to you - but the quickest it would arrive is Tues. [Phil/anyone more experienced with meds - they are 62.5Mg/#14 tabs - MizLiz would need dosing instruction if necessary]. If you PM me your mailing address I can have it already to go if you do need it.

I'm gonna go look at the pix and video now.

Dez

[MizLiz]

Thanks for the offer of mailing meds to me Dez, but I doubt my ability to pill a pigeon even with instruction.

Just got off the phone with the Jefferson City RPA guy. He was very very informative about finding a local vet. So I may be able to find someone!

[Dezirrae]

That's great MizLiz - I also did some looking around -- some options for you:
Noah's Ark Animal Hospital
Veterinary Medicine and Surgery - Univery of Missouri (I think they have an emergency clinic)

do a Google search on "emergency animal care columbia, missouri" and I'm sure you'll come up with some options

I'd say he's looking for a bath too Do you have something a little bit larger than the pie plate? Maybe one of the long rectangular brownie pans?

Regarding the food - there is a PetCo about 2 mls from you:
2101 West Broadway Suite W
Columbia, MO 65203
573-446-6929
Looks like they are open til 7 pm tonight.

The food you should pick up is Kaytee Supreme Daily Blend Dove food. It comes in a 5 lb bag and shouldn't be that expensive. Here's a picture of the bag so you'll know what you're looking for:


They also sell Kaytee Forti-Diet Eggcite! Canary Food which you can mix in - my piji's love it; more like a treat to them - it may help get your patient eating more.


Good luck!! And keep us posted of course!

[MizLiz]

THank you Dezirrae!!!!

Now the bad news. Noah's Ark is where I took him yesterday. I made an appointment for a pigeon, but was seen by my usual dog's vet. Now advice from the experts says that probably wasn't good enough to do the job right.

calling MU vet clinic now.

[MizLiz]

Pigeon has been eating the food Dezirrae reccommended for a few hours now. Seems perky. At the moment he is standing in the pie-plate of seed and is grooming himself all over. Have also offered a bowl of cockatiel grit, and a larger, deeper pan of water should he want a bath. Poop is still kelly green.

As I was changing his food bowls, he bit my finger and held on, so I let him, and took a look inside his mouth. Looks clear.

Got a good look at his raw red tail stump while he was grooming, a few inches from my nose. Looks un-infected. No smell.

Still trying to contact a vet in town with pigeon experience. UM vet school does not have anyone.

[pdpbison]

Originally Posted by MizLiz

Anyway, his poop is dark, rich green and chiffon yellow, if you can't tell from the flickr photos. Pretty colors, if they don't indicate disease, that is.


===

Hi Mizliz,



Images of 'poops' ( actually, the Urates in this case, ) are consistant with 'Canker'...as far as the appearance of the Urates.

Possibly, they are consistant with other illnesses or infections also, but, as far as Canker related Urates I see, they are consistant, anyway.




What you are assuming is fecal matter, possibly is only 'Bile'...

If you smear some thinly onto a sheet of white paper, you will be able to tell if it is fecal matter containing fibre, or, merely a sort of paint-like 'pigment'.


Bile is an indication of starvation...


Possibly, you could pre-soak a few 'pellets' of the food you got, cut them then into some soft and smaller bite-sized bits once they are soft and 'puffy', and, opening his Beak, put them one at a time into the far back of his Throat, for him to swallow.


However, before doing this, have some one hold him vertically, and under a stong Light, open his Beak and look into his Mouth and Throat to make sure his Throat is 'clear' of infection or infection-debris, in order to both evaluate that for it's own sake, and, to make sure he WILL be able to swallow foods put into his Mouth/Throat.


Let us know what you see?



Phil
l v

[pdpbison]

Hi Mizliz,



'Raw red rump' would sound like he escaped from a predation scenario...which then could mean he has a systemic infection progressing.


If I was you, I would settle for any Vet who would be willing to provide -


Metronidazole ( for probable 'Canker' which would be good also for whatever he has going, regardless... )

&


Clavamox ( for probable 'Pasteurella' infection of a systemic kind )


And ONLY concentrate and insist on that...on those two things.


You can say you had a Pigeon expert DO the diagnosis already, and you JUST need the Vet to do a fast exam for feeling satisfied with it, and to provide you the Meds...




Glad to hear he is eating..!


Worried about the rest of it though...


Best wishes..!



Phil
l v

[Dezirrae]

Hi MizLIz - Wondering how your patient is doing tonight. I hope you were able to find a vet.

I don't know if any of these towns are near you, but this is what I was able to find listed on http://www.avianweb.com/

Chesterfield:
Dr. Kersting - Bird Medicine and Surgery
132 Four Seasons Shopping Center, Chesterfield, Missouri 63017 - Tel. (314) 469-6661

Gladstone:
Corey A. Entriken, D.V.M., Gladstone Animal Clinic
7027 North Oak Trafficway, Gladstone, MO 64118 - Tel. (816) 436-1100

Independence:
Dr. Jay Schweizer, Avian Vet - Chrysler Animal Hospital
12440 E New 40 Hwy, Independence, MO 64055 - Tel. (816) 358-2857

Kansas City:
Dr. William Suuedmeyere - Kansas City Missouri Zoo
6700 Zoo Drive, Kansas City, MO 64132 - Tel. (816) 871-5728

Nixa:
Dr. Hardy - James River Animal Hospital
1870 N Deffer Dr, Nixa, MO 65714 - Tel. (417) 725-1997

Raytown:
Dr. Julie Burge, Avian Vet - Burge Bird Services
8904 350 Highway, Raytown, MO 64133 - Tel. (816) 356-4700

St. Louis:
Dr. David Kersting - Avian Vet
132 Fours Season's Shopping Center, St. Louis, MO 63017 - Tel. (314) 469-6661

Webster Groves:
Gwen Heist - Webster Groves Animal Hospital

7979 Big Bend Blvd., Webster Groves, MO 63119 - Tel. (314) 968-

[MizLiz]

He's spent the afternoon and evening enthusiastically eating the Kaytee Supreme Daily Blend Dove food. The big round seeds are his favorite. They are going down quick, so I assume there is no obstruction.

His feces are now olive green-brown, though still loose, and the white part is still tinged pale yellow. I'm reluctant to go back to Noah's Ark (they are my regular vet for my dog) and insist on meds when the vet there said he was fine.

Dezirrae, thank you for the list of avian vets. They are all about a one and a half to two hour drive from where I am. The contact for the Jefferson City RPA gave me the name of an avian vet in Jeff City, and that's only 30 min away. I'll call her first thing tomorrow. I'll be sure to call this birdie a pet and insist on thorough care.

The pigeon is better groomed now, smoothed down, and curious about what is outside his cage, so I let him go for a one minute-long expedition. He walked up my arm, onto my lap, and then hopped onto the floor and walked around behind me where the bag of dove blend was, and started pecking at the clear part of the bag. He's figured out that's where the good food comes from.

He's now in the cat carrier again, which has become his "night cage", and the lights are off. His "day cage" is the dog crate.

Thanks for all your help, folks. Sorry I'm being so frustrating, not getting meds into him yet!

[pdpbison]

Hi Mizliz,



Sounds good..!


Many of us who have seen quite a few sick and injured Pigeons, who when showing the symptoms yours has, one tends to expect the 'worst'.

Of course, not every one will in fact be ill, or be as ill as one might fisrt suppose.

Pigeons sometimes can come back 'up' and stay up, with just general supportive care, good food and water, and getting to be safe and provided for for a while.

This is the exception however...since usually, without meds for their illnesses, and a diagnosis of course for deciding the meds to use, they tend to come 'up' a little with general care, but to very soon or slowly, go 'down' if not given the operatively right meds.


Your Pigeon might have a very good immune system, and, with getting to rest, getting to have food and water and safety, is managing to beat whatever infections he or she had, without any meds.


So, golly, how nice!


But, of course, various of us here, me in particular, 'worry', so...I have no choice but to elaborate and detail my worrys in trying to provide insight or advice-at-a-distance, about little clues and so on relating to what I imagine to be the Bird's condition.


Anyway, you are doing great, and have hit the ground 'running' like a true champion...and the Pigeon has been responding very well...so, wow, very nice to see.


If you can, get a Tube of 'Neosporin' ( why did I forget to mention this earlier????) and liberally apply it with a clean finger tip, to the entire 'raw' area, and anywhere else which seems to be in any way abraded, 'raw or injured in any way. I say 'liberally' but I mean so the sin has at least a thin covering anyway, no need to be goopy with it, just so whaveter sin as would benifit from it, gets a nice thin coating.


Do this every day for a few days, anyway...and let us now if you find any other injurys in his skin anywhere.



Best wishes!


Phil
l v

[MizLiz]

pdpbison, and others:

I do appreciate all the advice the forum members have given me, and am sorry to have requested help when I was still on the fence about how much effort and money I was willing to devote to this pigeon.

I am aware how unlikely it is to be able to walk up to and pick up a wild bird who was not on the very verge of death. I do not assume he is healthy because he is eating and grooming.

I feel very lucky that he has done as well as he has in the face of my ignorance.

The pigeon-experienced avian vet in Jefferson City (30 minutes away) gets to work at 8:30 am. I will make an appointment to take him there, hopefully today. The bird is doing well enough (perky and smoothed-down) that I have no fear of him dying before then. He will get a real examination, and meds if he needs them.

And, I have Neosporin! I'll see if he lets me smear it on his butt.

I'm trying out names. "Leonard" does not fit. Neither does "Greybars".

Here are his poops from this morning:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/94869643@N00/2838921011/

[John_D]

Looks like a pretty good bunch of poop to me.

Ah, how we love our poops

John

[Dezirrae]

Good morning MizLiz No need to apologize - I think you're doing great and he has a much better chance of full recovery with you than out on his own with his bald little rump

I had a feeling the places I listed were a bit far away - but figured it was worth checking. Glad you have a name for someone much closer!

I think you have your name already... (from your last post) "Lucky". Just a thought anyway.

Good news that his appetite is so good and the poops (at least to me) look much better! I'm not quite the expert at poop viewing - but I would trust John's opinion for sure!

And if (likely) you do need to wind up giving your patient some pills - don't worry... it's not as difficult as you'd think. Though I confess the first time or two is a bit challenging until you and your piji get the hang of things. Phil has a great method of "burrito wrap" that helps keep the bird still. But cross that bridge when you get to it.

Hope you get the appt. today in Jefferson and again, thanks for being so attentive to this poor guy

[lwerden]

Thank you so much for rescuing and taking in this poor little piji. It takes a very special person to devote so much of their time and money to save one little bird. You are certainly one of those people.

You are doing a great job, and the bird seems to be thriving with you. I sincerly hope that all continues to go well.

Many thanks again!!!

[MizLiz]

The pigeon has an appointment to see the vet in Jeff City at 4pm this evening. Will let you know how it goes.

He did not let me smear his butt with Neosporin before I left for work this morning. You'd think he wasn't tame or something. I'll ask the vet to show me how to hold and immobilize him, and medicate him, etc.