Old pet dove limping

[Vibrissa]

Update! Went to the vet today (the good vet)--took a tortoise I rescued from a terrible area and overpass last night, too. He said it is only arthritis in both legs--keep soaking like you all said--he said that was helping him (and he LOVES sitting in the warm water). There was no bumblefoot (so much for a $70 wrong diagnosis by the other vet office). The protrusions were like corns or calluses older birds often get on the front of their legs--he got those off. Dr. King didn't think metacam was the medicine of choice for birds--thinks it messes too much with kidneys, liver, metabolism--so is going to confer with a good friend who knows birds really well and get back to us. The tortoise was checked out okay (had a chin scrape and didn't seem to be able to open his mouth last night--I soaked it with warm water this morning)--he was good to go. Dr. King gave him a shot of vitamins (because he knows reptiles really well), and we set him free in the woods at Southern IL University in Edwardsville, IL, near the lake. He said he'd had a rough life by the looks of his battered (but in tact) shell. He probably thinks he died and went to heaven now--as he was taken from a very horrid place to a wonderful woodsy place--totally different!

We took our dove (who is at least 14-15 or more years old--my mom raised him from a baby--to the vet to have his beak trimmed (it grows crossed) and told her he is limping on one foot--and holding it up a lot in his cage. He did that at the vet's office, too. She examined him a few minutes--said it could be his kidneys going--but she said there was nothing that could be done about that if they were--but that his other foot had developed bumblefoot probably from favoring it and standing more on it. She said we should get glucosamine to give him--just sprinkle it on his food each day and hope he eats enough--and that she could prescribe metacam, an anti-inflammatory that would help with discomfort or pain. Since my husband took him, he didn't know what to do (and the whole thing cost $73)--we just couldn't get him in with his regular vet office as they were booked for two weeks (and his exam and beak trim there are usually like $18-$25/visit. We were quite surprised by the price--but the trim was only $18--the short few minutes of feeling him to see if she felt a mass and looking at his feet with no definite diagnosis of anything was the rest! We are going to take him to another vet this next week--call it a second opinion--and he NEVER rips us off for stuff. But, I did want to ask you all your opinion--mostly, shouldn't I be putting something like Neosporin cream on his foot? And, should I change out the newspaper that he walks on on the bottom of his cage to cloth until it heals or what? We didn't get the metacam yet (they said they would have to formulate the right dosage anyway and wouldn't be able to until Wed. The vet we are going to go to this week will have that figured out as they treat a LOT of pet rats who use that plus birds. She said it had to be the kind of glucosamine (Cosequen) that was at Petsmart (haven't heard of petsmart having much that was the best for any pet yet). I have some glucosamine but it also has chondroitin--and I get good brands from vitacost.com Anyway, any comments or suggestions from those of you who really deal with doves and pigeons (and I know that pigeons are really doves, too)? Thank you for anything! Sherry

PS I wanted to add that he also has been molting the past two weeks--and during the first part (and before I knew for sure he was molting), he looked very sick and like he wasn't going to make it to the next day--I figured it out overnight, though. His poops were a bit watery (which I am pretty sure naturally goes along with molting), too. But then he kept looking like he was feeling better each day--until he began to limp now. He is still molting and I wondered if there was anything special I should/could give him that would help him through this molt or another if he lives to have another. My mother used to mix cod liver oil into the parakeets' food (my mom and dad raised parakeets when I was very young). He has dried lentils, split peas, dove seed from Petsmart, and dry egg food. My mother only raised him on mixed wild bird seeds, so by the time she died and I inherited Kiwi (his name), he wouldn't try any fruits, greens, veggies, bread, boiled or scrambled egg as I have read he should have had. He did decide he liked the dried lentils and the split peas and egg food in addition to the bird seed, at least. He has lived a long time--we are not sure how much over 15 he is, so I know he is probably on borrowed time, but I love him and want to do what is best for him while he is still with me. He still seems happy, but can't be too good with two hurting feet. Sorry this is so long, just wanted to give enough info.

[TAWhatley]

Hi Sherry,

Try giving this lovely old dove a foot soak in warm Epsom Salts water for about 10-15 minutes twice a day. What the vet is suggesting is fine, but if it really is bumblefoot, then that is a type of staph infection that isn't just going to go away without antibiotics. The glucosamine product you already have sounds OK to me to use for the bird .. I could be wrong ..

You should most definitely be making the flooring as comfortable as you can and keeping it as clean as you can.

Terry

[pdpbison]

Hi Sherry,



Direct...outdoor, unfiltered Sunlight...



Supplimental "B" Vitamins (plural )


Supplimental Vitamines-Minerals broadly...



File Toe Nails so tips are not sharp, use soft Towels for Cage Bottom...


Digestive-enzymes...lightly 'glisten' Seeds with 'spray' Olive Oil...sprinkle suppliments on Seeds...

Good Calcium containing Grit...

Fresh 'Sprouts'...( you may have to hold the Sprout for her to takes bites...or, any dark thin leafyfresg Greens, cut with Scissors into 1/8th inch 'Diamonds' and set a little pile of those next to her Seeds...)


These might be all she needs...



As Terry mentioned...if she had actual 'Bumble Foot', then she would need Antibiotics.




Good luck..!



Phil
l v

[Vibrissa]

Thank you both (forgot to mention, he does have grit with calcium and charcoal).

[philodice]

Two awesome responses to the problem, as usual. I would do both of those, as well as take out any perches from the cage that aren't smooth and flat. Perches, especially for an older dove, should be reduced to bricks and flat wood pieces at least 3 inches wide. They like to lounge to one side in order to reduce stress on old feet.
My chicken that had swollen feet responded well to wider perches and epsom salts. I also made a foot rub out of a tablespoon shea butter with a few drops of neem oil and colloidal silver mixed in that made her feet look 'supermodel' shiny and infiltrated the cracks in her scales. After a week those were repaired and the swelling was gone. She loved it, and I massaged it into her comb and wattle as well. Her eyes closed in delight and I felt I should charge her per minute.

The doves I have aren't going to stay still for rubbing those tiny, pink feet, so I put the last two ingredients in their bath pan if I notice anything 'off' with the feet or nails at all.

I am surprised she did not give antibiotics. All the advice given to you so far would help reduce pain and swelling, but not if it's infected. If it is the liver, there IS something you can do. I'll have to look it up.

I found this, it is a quote from a natural healing and support article on sick or old birds.
"
Arnica Montana is used for any type of trauma involving bruising and swelling. Helps clean up the blood, heals and reduces swelling.
Dosage: 3 small tablets twice a day for the first few days, then 3 once a day. For a smaller bird use 2 tablets. These are small tablets and easy to get down their throat.
+++
Detox of Liver-due to poisoning, mercury toxicity, over use of drugs, age, improper diet

Milk Thistle seeds can help detoxify the liver in all birds, in the long term. You buy the seeds and crush them up only a small amount, as you need them. They can then be sprinkled on the seed and are readily picked up as the bird eats.

Reishi is also an excellent detoxifier (antibiotic), and important to use in overall liver health. Turmeric can also be used for detoxify. Sprinkle on the seed.
+++
For infection you can put several drops of colloidal silver (Sovereign Silver) in the water or down the throat.

For purification of blood stream and increasing immune support, give adult pigeons 1 Garlic capsule (purifies the blood, also an anti fungal and anti bacterial), Now Brand, soft gel (2500 mg. with parsley) (I'd go half this with a dove)

Lots of calcium sources also important to help relax muscles and it calms the bird. You can use the liquid form of calcium with vitamin D3 or, a 1/4 of a human capsule.
Offer the bird lots of water, and seeds in a deep dish, and a
Stress free environment."

[Pidgey]

Add Baytril, if you can.

Pidgey

[Vibrissa]

I have baytril tablets will get him to our wonderful vet first--maybe will get it already liquid and right dosage without trying to crush them and figure out the dosage--although I am capable of that if I know how much he should get daily
Love the different perches idea--he has tree branches as his perches as he seemed to always prefer those--but I have never figured out how to clean them without them being wet, so just got new ones
I have a brick--washed it from outside, so is going to have to take days to dry first, and don't know how he will ever get up on it because he has trouble getting onto the low inch thick (and another a little less) branch that I place near to the floor--don't understand how to make flat board perches--or if you just mean blocks of wood 3 in. across. Since his life-long white ring-necked mate died a year ago (choked on me giving her lentils to build her up after an illness-just one half of a dried lentil ((). So, I am very leary of poking anything but liquid down his throat--because I was feeding him, too as he had gotten really thin last year--and he had sort of a stroke--seemed to recover mostly from it MONTHS afterward.
I wish I had some sorts of low pans/trays to put his food in--he throws it out of all dishes, so I gave up and put it on the floor--makes it very hard to clean without throwing all foods out every time--and have never given him a bath tray (have never seen the outdoor birds take baths even in the tray I put on the ground). Again, though, even a pie plate would be too much for him to climb over at this time. I wish I would have found you all long ago.
I've done tons of research for a dog who had terrible allergies and discovered a natural and healthy solution that also totaly prevents fleas, ticks, yeast ear infections--and diatomaceous earth to use on birds/animals to kill all crawly things instead of chemcals--but am just now learning about doves and pigeons (even though I have helped rescue and nurse back many). Thank you all--I appreciate the info and am going to try to think of something I can put in his cage for him to stand on that he can also get up on--and that can be cleaned more often. Am going to get the Epsom salts within the hour. Sherry

[philodice]

Poor old guy. You may want to just abandon the perch idea altogether then, and put in a flat piece of rock or board.

[Vibrissa]

Hubby just made and sanded a piece of wood that has ramps at both ends--he likes it (Kiwi likes it) He couldn't wait to walk up it! So we took the branches out and Hubby is going to make another one for him for the other end of the cage.

I soaked his feet (let him stand in) luke warm water (by the time I put him in it) and epsom salts--didn't know how much to put--so about 1/2 tablespoon in about 1/2 inch water in a glass pie plate--he seemed to like it. Also, I noticed on the leg that he holds up and limps on, there are these white growths out the front of the leg--I don't know that the vet even saw those--sheesh--she was just guessing that he was limping because of kidney problems--but I am thinking the white growths or sores on the front of his leg--he is going to Dr. Jay King on Tuesday--meanwhile I put olive oil, D3 powder, and glucosomine on his seed--he must have been eating some because he had a piece on his beak. I don't have b complex -- is there special for birds or just human B complex in a capsule that I put in his water or also on his food? I am going to ask for an antibiotic and metacam for him. Unless those compromise his kidneys which we aren't even sure he is having problems with (is there a blood test for birds?--although I think that would stress him out way too much) Tks for all of you helping me! I just love animals--much smarter and caring than humans in most cases--present company excepted, of course!!! Sherry

[TAWhatley]

Sounds like you are making good progress in making this grand old dove as comfortable as possible. Brewer's Yeast is often a very good choice for birds needing Vit B, Niacin, etc. and is readily available.

Please do keep us posted about Kiwi. I adore doves and have a real special spot in my heart for elder birds and animals.

Terry

[pdpbison]

Sounds good..!



Worms are often any easy-to-overlook thing which can slow them down...



One of my elder Pigeons "Big Girl" had a Tapeworm in her Water Cup the other day...


Who'd uh thunk it???


Cute little Tape worm too...



Phil
l v

[Vibrissa]

Goofy Kiwi--or maybe it felt better. After his soak last night, I rubbed Neosporin cream into both feet--he fought at first and did his "lose all the REST of my feathers thing" at first, then relaxed and seemed to enjoy it since I was very gentle. But then for the night--guess he missed his branch--sooo he slept standing on the edge of a metal cake pan (that I put his food in yesterday) with his rear end IN the dish --all night--same way this morning--pooping in all his food (((. Now, why didn't THAT hurt his feet to STAND on==maybe a perch wouldn't be so bad after all? I don't know if doves (males) like enclosures, but I put a waffle block house in his cage with a soft cloth for him to go in or explore today. We will see--he will probably ignore/avoid it. Who knows.
Also, where are good places on line to order food and other things (supplements) for doves? Surely there is better grit and seed foods somewhere than what I buy at Petsmart? Thanks.