Teaching outside skills?

[sandy51955]

I wanted to ask you wise and knowledgeable pigeon folk if it is possible to teach young pigeons, raised in the house and never having gone outside, to learn how to fly outside and not fly away. I have been talking to Lori in Nebraska, about possibly adopting her two brothers that she hand raised and have been living in the house. (Still would ahve to convince my husband) My bird is still missing, and though I am still hoping for his return, I am considering the adoption as they look so much like my Bird. Anyway, I know that I want any new pidge that I have to be able to be treated as he was, which means going out during the day-this time with better supervision. Can young birds learn how to stay around and not just fly away? Or is it too risky? I will not take any chances on losing someone's dear birds. I may be better off starting with a squeaker again, to begin at the begin. Thanks for any input. Sandy

[Lovebirds]

Originally Posted by sandy51955

I wanted to ask you wise and knowledgeable pigeon folk if it is possible to teach young pigeons, raised in the house and never having gone outside, to learn how to fly outside and not fly away. I have been talking to Lori in Nebraska, about possibly adopting her two brothers that she hand raised and have been living in the house. (Still would ahve to convince my husband) My bird is still missing, and though I am still hoping for his return, I am considering the adoption as they look so much like my Bird. Anyway, I know that I want any new pidge that I have to be able to be treated as he was, which means going out during the day-this time with better supervision. Can young birds learn how to stay around and not just fly away? Or is it too risky? I will not take any chances on losing someone's dear birds. I may be better off starting with a squeaker again, to begin at the begin. Thanks for any input. Sandy

Is it possible? Of course it is. But, it's risky. There would only be ONE way to know if the bird would stay and that's to let him go and see if he leaves or stays. Once in the air, your control is gone. Period. Even with a new squeaker, there's no guarantees, but your chances of keeping it around go WAY WAY up............
It's also possible to put up a building and just let them "live".........Lori's birds, no matter where they wind up, will never or I should say, SHOULD never be allowed free flight. They would be just as happy in a nice size coop/loft with a nice aviary just being pigeons.

[Hillybean]

I agree with Renee. The two that you are interested in adopting should never be released (allowed free flight). They are use to being indoors, or in a building.

Have you thought about adopting or buying some young, Homers???
I believe the wild look you like is a Blue Checkered. I think you can get homers that look like that..... I'm not too sure though.

Having more than one will also help, when they are outside flying. It may be something you might want to consider.

-Hilly

[Trees Gray]

Originally Posted by sandy51955

I wanted to ask you wise and knowledgeable pigeon folk if it is possible to teach young pigeons, raised in the house and never having gone outside, to learn how to fly outside and not fly away. I have been talking to Lori in Nebraska, about possibly adopting her two brothers that she hand raised and have been living in the house. (Still would ahve to convince my husband) My bird is still missing, and though I am still hoping for his return, I am considering the adoption as they look so much like my Bird. Anyway, I know that I want any new pidge that I have to be able to be treated as he was, which means going out during the day-this time with better supervision. Can young birds learn how to stay around and not just fly away? Or is it too risky?

Having both homing pigeons and hand-raised pet pigeons, I can truly say that these two birds should not be outdoors, free flying or on your shoulder. They may or may not have the skills to "home". They may or may not have the instinct to know what dangers there are outside, but I doubt they have either... it could result in a terrible tragedy just experimenting.


I KNOW my pet birds have the ability to home, because they were born from homing pigeons. What I didn't know was they didn't have the instincts to know when there is danger around, because they had no fear. They flew well with the flock, but when the other birds came home they decided to take a detour and lounge around for a while on a neighbors roof, they lost the security of flying in a group and also became sitting ducks. I was so upset, and when I located them I coaxed them home with peanuts, and they finally came inside.

[NitaS]

Hope it's OK to jump in here. I'm wondering if I will be able to put the baby I've been hand-feeding into the loft with my other birds. And if so, when can I do this? Or since I've hand-fed it, is it now my pet and must be kept indoors?

[Lovebirds]

Originally Posted by NitaS

Hope it's OK to jump in here. I'm wondering if I will be able to put the baby I've been hand-feeding into the loft with my other birds. And if so, when can I do this? Or since I've hand-fed it, is it now my pet and must be kept indoors?

Every baby I've hand raised has gone out to the loft with the other birds. After about 2 or 3 days out there, they don't "love" you quite as much. After a week??? Forget it..........they show no appreciation for the tlc you gave them..........
Just kidding.....sort of..........the ones I've hand raised inside were always a little tamer than the others, but not extremely so...........
They'll do fine in the loft. Will you be able to put them with other birds their age?

[Trees Gray]

Originally Posted by NitaS

Hope it's OK to jump in here. I'm wondering if I will be able to put the baby I've been hand-feeding into the loft with my other birds. And if so, when can I do this? Or since I've hand-fed it, is it now my pet and must be kept indoors?

Not necessarily, it all depends on how many birds, their ages and how many aggressive males or birds you have in the loft. The new bird is always the "new kid on the block" and will have to find a place in the pecking order.

You can allow short visits into the loft with supervision once the youngster is able to walk and fly and eat on its own, and making the daily visits longer and longer. Once the youngster is completely self sufficient and seems to be getting along with the birds you can put him in the loft, if he is getting along and able to hold his/her ground you can probably leave him/her, but check on the bird often in the beginning. It's much easier introducing a young male to a whole group of pigeons as they are usually able to assert themselves and find their place in the flock, with a young hen it may be a bit harder.

You probably should secure a place for the bird to sit and sleep at night until he/she has established himself/herself.

[NitaS]

Thanks for the info Treesa.
Baby is just starting with the feathers but each day they are coming in more and more. I have it taking a drink of water if I show it where it's at, but I'm still feeding the Exact with yogurt. At what age should I start introducing seeds and should I just start out with small seeds?
Baby now has a name - Rumm. Stands for R U My Mom? My daughter remembered a book I read my kids when they were little about a baby animal, which I think was a bird going around asking all the animals if they were it's mom. She said that's what the baby pij was asking me when it was squawking at me

[warriec]

For safety safe and to prevent worry from my side I dont let my birds out anymore. They have large loft to fly around and they are very happy (I know they are happy because I have a good survival rate and out put of babies).

[Trees Gray]

Originally Posted by NitaS

Thanks for the info Treesa.
Baby is just starting with the feathers but each day they are coming in more and more. I have it taking a drink of water if I show it where it's at, but I'm still feeding the Exact with yogurt. At what age should I start introducing seeds and should I just start out with small seeds?
Baby now has a name - Rumm. Stands for R U My Mom? My daughter remembered a book I read my kids when they were little about a baby animal, which I think was a bird going around asking all the animals if they were it's mom. She said that's what the baby pij was asking me when it was squawking at me

Hi Nita,

You should continue to hand feed, and you can introduce it to a bowl of seeds anytime. Since he is drinking he is definitely ready for (picking up and eating seed) school. They really start to have interest at about 20 days to 25 days of age. Make sure to sprinkle a few on the babies towel, and move them around with your finger, this helps to generate an interest. Once he is picking up and actually swallowing one right after the other, he won't need formula.

If you have another youngster that is eating well now, you can use this baby to help generate an interest. Other babies and parents are their best teachers.

I love the name, so cute!

[sandy51955]

Hi, Thanks for everyone's input on my question. I think I knew the answer but wanted to check before going further with Lori. We enjoyed the way that our Bird was raised and though it was risky, and was proven such with his disappearance, if I have pigeons again, it is how I would like to raise them. Maybe in the future, if I get more involved, I can have a loft and cages. This was just a happenstance thing, that we acquired Bird, and not knowing anything about pigeons, or about this site, we just, no pun intended, winged it. It was fun, and successful for the most part. I will discuss the situation with Lori, and my husband, to decide which plan to take. Thank you all for you invaluable advice.

Sandy

[pdpbison]

Hi Sandy,



Years ago I had an indoor flock of recovered ferals and many hand raised orphan Babys who grew up or were growing up, and also the grown up and growing up Babys of the mated paris of recovered ferals...


Anyway, every day they all flew all they liked out doors, and every dusk everyone came back.


I really had to do nothing but open the window, and close the window at night.

I never tried training anyone, and I just always let them do what ever they liked.



far as I could tell, if they identify a place as 'Home' in their terms of it, they will fly off by day, graze, goof around, socialize and so on, and fly back at dusk.

It is that simple.

If 'Home' does not include good mate/pardner prospects, a hen may meet a suiter who lives elsewhere else and join him there...or a male may meet a hen out in the world and bring her back.

If one has a situation they like, the problem is not one of how to get them to return, the problem instead, can be one of how to get them to "go" and KEEP going..!


Lol...

Young Birds and old, need to meet others, have experiences, and find satisfacitons in their own ways, and if there are no other Birds to do so with, or too few, or too few and the wrong ones somehow, too few amenitys in their view of it of whatever kinds, the young or Old Bird will wisely wish to look elsewhere, same as anyone...


Anyway, no training is necessary if things are in their terms...they will do what makes sense to them, so ultimately, we do well to understand what they need and like, and then we know what to do to invite them to do the things we would enjoy them to do.


I was somewhat evolving a similar situation here, but not intentionally, and with more limited space and amenitys, and also that my intention is to rehab and release...not to have an indoor flys by day flock.

I was finding the same situaiton evolving, where released ones would bring back mates, and or also find mates here pre-release, get released, and come back months later with their met-here mate, and wishing to live here kindoors with me, making their Nests and so on, totally charming.


This was very sweet, but I am short on room! That, and the feral Cats messed up my system of letting the fliers fly by day to return at dusk...since the egress for the flyers was throug the Workshop, so...

I did have an aperature on the front wall to the Street, up high, and that for a while was the gome and go for the fly-by-day ones, but I elected to close it after speeding Cars had hit some of them, since their flight path to the aperature tended to be across the road...

Anyway...

Oye...


Phil
Las Vegas

[sandy51955]

Hi Phil,
So you think it would be possible to have these two 6 month old birds learn that hits is their home even though they ahve not been allowed to fly outside before? As I said, I'm not sure my husband is up to having two birds but may consider it if we handled it as we did with our Bird. I guess we raised him just to be a pigeon, actually with the intent of turning him loose one day. But besides becoming so attached to him, we were afraid of what would happen to him when he started landing on people's heads out in the real world! But we did like that he could act like a regular bird and enjoy his flying, which he did! He always came back until the last time and I think that is because we weren't here so maybe he went off in search of company. When he wanted in he would be at the door, hanging on the screen or sitting on the doorstep. Even in Florida, and North and South Carolina, where we were visiting, we just turned him loose, he flew and got his bearings and knew right where we were all the time, whether in the motor home or the barn. Even after being scared by a hawk in Florida, he flew off but within an hour was back at the barn. We live on a farm with lots of open spaces so traffic and people wouldn't be aprobelm for the most part. But we do have hawks. I think my Bird did have some natural survival instincts. Anyway, still pondering what to do.Thanks for your input.

Sandy

[pdpbison]

Hi Sandy,


"Home" for young Pigeons will be where their sense of comunity is, as far as I can tell.


Once they are having grown-up feelings and urges to elect a Mate and so on, in the wilds, they will usually have to wait a few years before a Hen will accept them, or, if they are a Hen, they can get started earlier.

I have no experience with the behavior of one or two Pigeons in these regards, but my expectation would suggest that they would wish to join a flock, and they would not really have a 'home' as such untill they have a mate and have made a Nest, and whether they retain the same Nest site or elect a different near-bye one for their next brood, will depend on various things.


When one has amenitys which allow for keeping or providing for what in effect is a 'flock' ( ie ten or fifteen or more Birds ) I think there is a threshold then of the 'where' these Night Roost, to be in effect their 'Home'.


When indoors, the various mated-pair ones then will of course elect Nesting places, and this really cements the notion then for them and others, as to that indoor location being 'Home'.


Young Birds, raised or hand raised indoors amid various ambient others, if released miles away, as far as I know will tend to return poste-haste, since for them, for the time being, it is the only place they know.

But these same young Birds, if merely let out to fly, may or may not return, or may or may not return after a few times out...according to who else they meet, or their interests to join another flock or to just explore or goof around or all of the above.


Mine always went out and came back every day, years ago when I had an indoor 'flock' who night roosted in my Living Room.


Since being here in an old Commercial Building, generally the young ones I let go out and fly, join the outside flock, and do not return indoors, even though I see them every day, or see them a half mile away with another flock.


The difference is, to my guess, because in the old days when I had a house, anyone who wanted to go out, could go out, every day, and I just opened the kitchen Window every morning and "out" they all went, or everyone old enough to fly, went out.


Where here, I have to carry them out, or carry them into the Shop, from which they go out when I later open the big roll up door. And they can come back into the Shop allright, but they can not come back into the rooms here, since the door from these rooms to the Shop can not be left open, on account of the feral Cats ( I have floor Birds in here and can not risk the cats getting in to these rooms )...

When I had an opening in the front wall up high, with a little landing on it, various young ones WOULD go out and come back in just fine, and reliably...since that opening was open all the time, and anyone who wanted to, could go out and come back in as they pleased.

But these young ones were raised either by me or by recovering pre-release or floor-Bird 'feral' Parents, in here amid a dozen or more ambient other Pigeons of various ages...so, in effect, the young opne was a member of a flock to begin with...contiguous with the outside flock.


So anyway, far as I know, there would be no reason for your two young Pigeons to come back if let out to fly, since their Nature would urge them to be with other Pigeons or to be part of a flock in some way, or, once old enough, they may wish to retrun with mates, and make nests in the indoor areas where they were raised.

Normally, the Natural History of Pigeons does not see them roost and make Nests indoors, though many in fact will do so in abandonded Buildings or similar opportunitys.



All in all, when they can go out every day on their own, and fly, and come back in, as they please, I think the chances of them going out AND comeing back, are best.


But their own Nature will still incline them to seek out Mates, and to explore grazing places where they will meet others, and all in all they will tend to follow their own judgement and values and reasons for what they do...and this can mean that they do not come back.

None of this of course takes into account any potential dangers of Hawks or other perils, but just is considering what sense I have been able to make of it from my own observations.


Sorry this was kind of rambley, I am over tired as usual and a little loopy..! Hard to get my thoughts straight...


Phil
Las Vegas