zeolite

[Julien]

Hi,

I have bought the book ''Vet's Tips For Fanciers'' by Dr. Zsolt Talaber. In this book, Dr. Talaber has a very good article about Zeolite. I wrote to him to know the quantity we should mix into drinking water as it is not written in the article. I would like to know if someone already tried it and also the right quantity to use. Also, powder or liquid Zeolite.

Raymond Julien,

Canada

[Lovebirds]

I've never heard of it. Below is one of many web sites about it.


http://www.cellularzeolitecenter.com/LiquidZeolite.php

[John_D]

I never heard of it, either.

I can't imagine why it would be recommended for pigeons, to be honest, like various other 'natural' products that are supposed to work wonders.

John

[george simon]

HI RAYMOND, The first thing I would tell you is there are many people that try to take advantage of people new to pigeons. These people will try to sell you their idea's just to make money off you. Just look at all the pigeon catalogs and all the items they sell. Just what is this ZEOLITE supposed to do? .. GEORGE .

[Julien]

Thanks all for your remarqs.

Here is the article Dr. Talaber wrote about Zeolite:

May I give zeolite to my pigeons? What is it exactly? What effect does it have on the pigeons?
*
Zeolite is a mineral of volcanic origin, based on aluminium hydroxy silicate. Its cross-linked crystal structure can hold large quantities of water, which is released by heat, and the material takes on a microporous structure. The spatial structure develops according to the temperature and duration of the heating, and this can be used to make expedient use of the adsorbent characteristic of zeolite. So it becomes suitable for the selective adsorption of harmful substances: gases, liquids, even parasitic eggs, pathogenic microbes and their poisonous metabolic products.
Given internally, similarly to medical carbon, its effect is to decrease diarrhoea by adsorbing harmful substances. We can add it to feed in a pigeons on trays. We can mix zeolite into drinking water if it is of suitable form (fine powder); this enriches the water with trace elements and stops pathogens from proliferating in it.
Zeolite is very rich in trace and micro elements. When it enters the pigeon’s system, zeolite deposits these elements, thus helping the metabolism and especially the operation of the immune system. Zeolite is an entirely natural substance, and we do not have to prepare for side-effects. We only have to ensure that we do not administer it together with other drugs, as it can also adsorb and block their active ingredients.
Scattered on the floor, zeolite decreases the noxious gas (first of all the very dangerous ammonia) concentration of the air in the loft, and its humidity. If we sense ammonia in the air, we should clean the loft more regularly, because the gas reaches the air from the droppings that accumulate on the floor. While it is no substitute for cleaning, afterwards it is very effective to scatter zeolite on the floor. In the process of removing the used zeolite we also remove huge amounts of pathogens, bacteria, viruses and eggs of parasites.
Coccidia and eggs of some worms need a damp environment to become infective once in the outside world. This means that regular cleaning of the loft is important, something we should pay even greater attention to in damp, humid weather. If the floor of the loft is damp and dries with difficulty, we should scatter an adsorbent material like zeolite on it.
For all these reasons, it would be worth making greater and more widespread use of zeolite than we see in pigeon-keeping today, since the more natural the substances and methods you can successfully implement, the more healthy and beautiful a flock you will have in the long run. The beneficial effect on your wallet will be felt even more quickly.


Tips:
If you have accidentally overdosed a drug, give adsorbent substances at once, i.e. medical carbon or zeolite, and a laxative, e.g. Epsom salt.
If you put zeolite into the water, it will form a fine coat on the surface of the drinker. It stops the proliferation of salmonellas in the drinking water.

Raymond Julien, Canada...

[TheSnipes]

I am intrigued. I would, however, like to know more...as in, how much to give/administer/add to water & feed.

[jbangelfish]

It is used in aquarium filtration to remove ammonia. The problem is that once it is saturated, it releases ammonia back into the water. Further, I believe that it does something in addition to this, once saturated. I tried it for a while when I was breeding alot of fish. It is not cheap when you have 100 aquariums or more to keep zeolite in them. It is far cheaper and just as effective to just do water changes and is what virtually every responsible fish breeder does.

While I don't see the benefit to this wonder product for pigeons, it could have some purpose. I just don't see the need for it, especially in every day usage.

Bill

[Lovebirds]

Interesting..........

[John_D]

Originally Posted by jbangelfish

While I don't see the benefit to this wonder product for pigeons, it could have some purpose. I just don't see the need for it, especially in every day usage.

Bill

Quite so, Bill. There are so many things out there ... I do not understand, if a pigeons is fit and feisty on a good diet and fresh air, what is to be gained by wonder supplements.

John

[jbangelfish]

If we were to mix it in the floor litter, they would surely eat some of it as it is usually granular and would be taken in as grit. This may or may not be healthy and once contaminated (either by feces or by absorbtion of ammonia), certainly not healthy. In powdered form, it would not likely be ingested but it would also lose it's absorbing properties very quickly.

Pigeons are meant to run on an acidic system, which is why vinegar is beneficial to them. Zeolite would be pure alkaline and contradictory to a pigeon's needs. Not that they don't need calcium because we all know that they need that as well.

If your coop has so much ammonia that you are going to filter it with zeolite, I'd suggest it is time to clean your coop.

Just some random thoughts I've been having since reading this.

I agree about healthy diet and clean water. I don't think that they need much else. I have more to say about feed and will post another thread on that subject soon.

Bill

[Julien]

Thank you Bill,

Now, what can I do? Here is the add why I bought this book:

'''Vets Tips for Fanciers

The book (Click onto the photos)A BRAND NEW INTERNATIONAL PIGEON BOOK

from world renowned pigeon vets -

for every fanciers,

in the very popular
Question and Answer format.

300 pages, hardback, full color, with many excellent photos.
*
The authors of the book are well-know pigeon vets from around the world:
Gordon Chalmers, Canada
Wim Peters, South Africa
Colin Walker, Australia
Pascal Lanneau, Belgium
Zsolt Talaber, Hungary''''

So it has also been sposered by 4 other great vets. I have written 3 times up to now to Dr. Talaber but never get a single answer!

What do you think, all of you about this situation?

Raymond Julien, Canada.
Now only 49.95 USD order online''''

[Julien]

Hi all and specially Bill,

As I have no information from Dr. Talaber, I will write to the 5 vets that wrote the book.

I already have the e-mail adress of Dr. Zsolt Talaber from Hungary, Dr. Gordon Chalmers from Canada and Dr. Collins Wayker from Australia.

Does any body have the two other vets E-mail address:

Dr. Wim Piters South Africa and
Dr. Pascal Lanneau from Belgium.

Thank you very much for your precious help.

Raymond Julien.

[spirit wings]

I googled and found this on the liquid form, talking of human consumption. does'nt sound good.http://www.cqs.com/zeolite.htm

[jbangelfish]

Originally Posted by Julien

Thank you Bill,

Now, what can I do? Here is the add why I bought this book:

'''Vets Tips for Fanciers

The book (Click onto the photos)A BRAND NEW INTERNATIONAL PIGEON BOOK

from world renowned pigeon vets -

for every fanciers,

in the very popular
Question and Answer format.

300 pages, hardback, full color, with many excellent photos.
*
The authors of the book are well-know pigeon vets from around the world:
Gordon Chalmers, Canada
Wim Peters, South Africa
Colin Walker, Australia
Pascal Lanneau, Belgium
Zsolt Talaber, Hungary''''

So it has also been sposered by 4 other great vets. I have written 3 times up to now to Dr. Talaber but never get a single answer!

What do you think, all of you about this situation?

Raymond Julien, Canada.
Now only 49.95 USD order online''''

I'd like to know first of all if these people are actually veterinarians. Secondly, I'd want to know if they are pigeon keepers and how much experience they have.

Just because people write a book doesn't mean that they know all the answers. This is why I don't write books as I don't know all the answers. I could have written books on many subjects and maybe someday I will but until I feel like I know it all, I'm not writing them.

When it comes to books on pigeons, I only have a very few. I have the Encyclopedia of Pigeon Breeds by Levi and I have a notebook type on genetics by Quinn. The Encyclopedia has photos of every breed that they could find when it was written. Herbert Axelrod (owner of TFH) urged Levi to write it as he was probably the leading authority on pigeons at the time.

Axelrod has probably written as many books as Stephen King but most of them are vague, uninteresting and of little value to me. He made a lot of money selling books. He might know as much about fish as anyone but he knows alot more about selling them and selling books and how wealthy this made him. He did discover the Cardinal Tetra and I have to give him credit for that, it bears his name as Axelrodi.

When it comes to taking care of pigeons, I have always relied on my own experiences and the experiences of old pigeon breeders. Clair Hetland knew as much as anyone about pigeons and to my knowledge, he never wrote a book. If I was stumped, I used to call him and he always had an answer and a solution.

I'd be skeptical of just about anything that promises great results without hearing it from a lot of other people first.
As for zeolite, I can tell you that we don't need it to care for pigeons.

Bill

[Lovebirds]

I know that Colin Walker and Gordon Chalmers are vets. Hard to believe that as long as you've been around pigeons you haven't heard of either one or seen their books?

http://www.winningmagazine.nl/artice...hop.asp?id=215

http://www.walshloft.com/medication/canker-dr-c.htm