Poops...what do they REALLY mean

[Pigeonpal2002]

Hi Everyone,

I'd just like to bring this subject up to one and all. It would seem that poop concerns are a HUGE topic of debate here in our forum and I would just like to say a few things about this.

I know for myself in my "earlier" days of not being familiar with pigeon diseases, proper nutrition/health maintenace, medications, and the various forms of feces I was looking at, I was very bewildered at times. I've seen all kinds of pigeon poop; runny and green, black with white urates, slimy and pea green, yellow liquid, mostly water, spaghetti feces in water etc. etc etc. What I'm trying to say is that I've been exposed to all forms that pigeon poop can take

We as pigeon folks, even as bird people altogther have been predispositioned to watch, look, monitor and note what a bird's feces *should* look like at all times. It's very true that poop can be directly related to the state of a pigeons health but it's not the holy grail that we have become accustomed to hearing over and over.

There are nearly as many reasons for inconsistant poops in pigeons as the colours in which they come in. Watery feces can be attributed to excessive drinking (plain & simple thirst on a hot day), green droppings can be caused by hunger, high pea ingestion or certain other green legumes in excess. Large smelly droppings are often expelled from a bird after sitting on the nest for long periods of time. Slimy feces can be caused by a high fruit or vegetable intake. Medications/supplements/temperatures/heat/cold/age/male or female all play into this equation too. The point is, droppings in our birds vary from day to day, week to week and month to month. What is important is to see "normal" droppings during these times....the classic nutty green/brown, firm droppings with a white dollup on top.

I feel at times, we are being burdened by over analyzation of what all these different droppings mean. We as humans don't always have the same type of bowel movements and they can vary from day to day with diet, excersize, dietary changes, nervousness, overall nutrition etc, and the same is true for our pigeons. This however, DOESN"T mean that our birds are dying or in need of medical attention. It's also important to watch their overall behaviours, actions and day to day routines...this can also give us much insight of what is going on with their health.

I have 2 younger pigeons (just over a year old), they are domestic, indoor birds that have never been exposed to the outdoors, they are separated from the my other pigeons, and have excellent dietary choices. They are given multi-vitamins 2 times per week, ACV 2 times per week and probiotics once a week or if needed more. I also give them brewers yeast tablets once per month & fish oil capsules once a month. The have special multi spectrum lighting in their room, the area is scrubbed meticulously every day and the room is well ventilated as well. These birds are robust, almost hyper active, eat well for hand reared birds but....they have droppings that (at times) have matched every one of the descriptions I've listed above. They've been treated for worms now and also coccidia (just in case). Again, my point is this, pigeon droppings can be very inconsistant and unusual but it doesn't necessarily reflect bad or failing health.

I just wanted to mention this to everyone because I felt it was important for us to realize that not all "suspicious" droppings mean doom and gloom. Everyone should have their birds feces taken to an avian vet for testing every 6 months and if all checks out ok, chances are, the birds themselves are just fine

[John_D]

Brad,

That is indeed a good topic and dear to many hearts here, I'm sure.

I totally agree - a change in consistency and/or color can mean problems, and can also mean any of the 'innocent' causes you've listed.

Some pigeons are more highly strung than others (just like humans) and a sudden change to green, rather wet poops (for example) can be just a temporary stress - maybe like when I pack a pidge in a carrier and drive him 20 miles to the vet, which is very good for producing a nasty-looking poop, as I and the vet's table found out

The 'poop book' (more properly, "Problem Droppings Explained") also states that there are a number of valid reasons for changes, and not to go overboard at the first sign of 'not normal'..

Whether or not there's a real problem, I believe, depends on (a) the presence - or absence - of any other unusual symptoms, and (b) if the changed state continues for more than a day or, possibly, two.

I think that in some cases, where it is known that a bird has suffered some internal damage in the past but is otherwise healthy, we can tell why droppings are 'not right'. We have observed this in the aviary with birds who had PMV even a long time back, and where there has probably been some detrimental and permanent effect on the kidneys - they may still produce watery 'PMV droppings' even though long recovered from the other aspects of the illness.

The dreaded 'hen droppings' after a night on the nest have certainly been known to cause alarm for the new pigeon person - but as we know, it is a normal situation.

I'd suggest the two most immediate causes for concern could be (1) blood in the droppings, and (2) yellow instead of the white 'cap' and not much other component in the droppings.

But yes, it is always encouraging to see a roosting box in the morning with a neat pile of firm, rounded poops of the right color and a few down feathers attached.

John

[Pidgey]

So, that's the Scoop on the Poop! The only thing I can think to add is when there's a huge accumulation of yellowish water (enough to soak a newspaper) you've usually got a problem as well.

Pidgey

[Rockie]

Originally Posted by Pigeonpal2002

green droppings can be caused by hunger,

I'm so confused...just yesterday my avian vet told me not to worry about all the bright green poops (as long as it is not the white part turning green). I always thought bright green meant starving/hungry. She tells me "black" means starving. Can anyone clarify this for me? Most of the bright green in my birds poops is the watery part around the whole thing.

Thanks.

[Maggie-NC]

I agree with Brad on this subject. Today was "worming" day at our house (great fun!) for our "keepers" in our large aviary. We bring all the birds (23) into the garage and leave them in cages while the aviary is thoroughly cleaned. This gives us a chance to check their poop in the cages to see if they did have worms - it only takes about two hours for the Pyrantel/Strongid that we use to start taking effect.

Today, one of our rescue homers (had bands but only numbers on them) had blood mixed in with his poop. I know that blood can indicate coccidiosis but can it also be connected with worms? He did pass a few worms. How concerned should I be? We actually saw the blood before he passed the worms. He acts fine otherwise. We do plan to treat for coccidiosis tomorrow.

Thanks, maggie

[Pigeonpal2002]

Hi Maggie,

Seeing blood in the poops is not very common either with coccidia or worms. Coccidiosis in chickens will show bloody droppings more often but it does also occur in pigeons at times with heavy infections.

With worms, blood in the droppings is most often caused by a heavy infestation of hair/thread worms. These tend to do a lot more damage to the intestinal lining than the larger worms do. They can develop in much larger numbers and through their numbers, they can/will wreak a lot of havoc, therefore causing the bleeding.

[Happy]

I only pay attention to the droppings in the morning before they can eat or drink. That's when I think they should be pretty solid nuty type etc.. Real Sick birds will have the watery etc. type at this time. Course I am a Racer & crate them before daylight for road training or releasing at daybreak & can check this at that time..... Hap

[feralpigeon]

[quote=Pigeonpal2002 We as humans don't always have the same type of bowel movements and they can vary from day to day with diet, excersize, dietary changes, nervousness, overall nutrition etc, and the same is true for our pigeons. [/QUOTE]

Hi all,

Brad, your comment about humans, lol....I remember reading in a health book that the healthy human colon/intestine should produce two bowel movements a day, which isn't so bad. But the length that they said was "normal", was two feet long for the first one and one foot long for the second. A total of three feet of bowel movement for a human "if" they are healthy per day. Probably most members are lucky that there aren't 12 foot pijies running around behind us checking....

[minimonkey]

[FP, *hilarious* comment about 12-foot pidgies following us around, checking our "production," if you will!!]

Brad and the rest, thanks for this post. My wife and I were mildly OCD about our guys' poops until a couple of weeks ago, when we just concluded, "Hey, if there's a good distribution of 'the classic poop,' throughout the day well, things are probably just fine."

Our guys get good a good pigeon mix throughout the day, fresh water changed 2X daily, probiotics a few times a week and are solely indoor birds. They're going through their first molt, so maybe some runny poops here and there are just fine (I understand it's quite energy-taxing on birds). Other than that, these four-month-old guys are perky, bright-eyed, enthusiastic youngsters with nice, pink mouths.

Thanks for the poop perspective!

[pdpbison]

Originally Posted by Rockie

I'm so confused...just yesterday my avian vet told me not to worry about all the bright green poops (as long as it is not the white part turning green). I always thought bright green meant starving/hungry. She tells me "black" means starving. Can anyone clarify this for me? Most of the bright green in my birds poops is the watery part around the whole thing.

Thanks.

Hi Leslie,


When I have got in Starved Birds, or have a Bird who has not eaten in some time, from what I have seen, they tend to poop little dabs of bright green, or that and some yellow or white chalky 'flat' dabs of liquid.

It may seem simple, but many times we find that people overlook the fact that how many and what size the poops are, is the result of how much and or what the Bird has been eating.

People write in here with sick or injured Bird concerns, and when asked 'How are the Poops? can you describe them? To then say, more or less, 'Yea poops look fine, there were two little dabs of goo over the last day or so..."



I have seen some initial 'black' gooey small droppings from Birds with internal injuries, but not otherwise and not from privation.

The bright 'green' that looks like dabs of Artist's Oil Paint is what I mean here, not average green or pale green or brownish-green or fibery-textured-light-green... but the bright green like little dabs of Artist's Oils paint, to me is associated with starvation. These are not turds or 'Raisens' but like as if someone went into the cage and was touching fresh from the tube Artist's paint to the towell or paper towell.


The odd anomalous poop is one thing, steady trends are another...

If yours has 'bright green watery part around the whole thing' I think there may be reason for concern, or inquirey anyway...

Their poops, if fed healthy Seeds and Grit and the small amounts of veggies or shoots, should look about like firm, easy to pick up between the finger tip, 'Raisens', and be brownish-green and white and be the layers of squigs of both.

Passing liquid as other than a rare event ( of clearl water with the little 'ropes') is not right unless freightened a lot or margainally ill with something, as far as I know...


Phil
Las Vegas

[upcd]

In loft of 48 birds. Do you pick the bird that most concerns you or a ramdom fecal? Do you do each bird in the flock or just one or more? I notice in my loft I have a wide range of colors going on through out the day. Do you do your own fecal samplesor have a vet. them?

[Pigeonpal2002]

Hi Everyone,

In my initial post I forgot to mention some other factors that can have effects on droppings, such as grit intake (too little or too much), type of grit, and hens getting ready to lay. There still are probably other instances as well that I'm forgetting at the moment

In any case, here is a before & after picture of my youngsters poop from about 5 months back. At this time, I was allowing them free access to grit and specifically, the red granite type. They also had access to oyster shell grit but were not eating it at the time these pictures were taken.

I posted these photos before (some of you might remember) because I was stunned by what I saw, what turned out to be the cause and just the overall horrible consistancy of the droppings my birds had for a period of time while ingesting large quantities of grit. At the time when they were eating the large volumes of grit, I was unaware it was affecting them. The droppings didn't reflect what was happening for a period of time because it was a gradual process of them over indulging and before the droppings started to change into a consistancy that was very frightening, to say the least. Anyone looking at the first half of this picture, would or could easily view these droppings and say, "there is something seriously wrong here with these birds". Sometimes there was grit in the feces themselves but often there wasn't either. In this shot, you can see a few pieces of the grit that were expelled in the droppings.

The second shot in the photo shows the difference after stopping the grit and was taken about a week later. To this day, I have to limit the amount of grit that they are allowed by offering them small quantities every other day or so and since I've been doing this, their droppings have never reverted back to looking like they did in the first part of this picture.

[pdpbison]

Hi Brad,


Yeeeeeesh...!


Looks lika Jackson Pollack...


Wow, big difference...!


You are right, I would have wondered seriously, what is the matter with that Bird!!!???

But my suspicion would have been that thay'd eaten something 'odd'...rather than disease..



Phil
Las Vegas

[Pigeonpal2002]

Originally Posted by pdpbison

Yeeeeeesh...!


Looks lika Jackson Pollack...

LOL!!!!! PHIL!!!! Pretty nasty looking "before" poops aren't they?

[Trees Gray]

THE WONDERFUL WORLD OF POOPIES

Well, let me get in on the poop scoop here!

Brad, thank you for starting this thread, it made a point, and thanks for sharing the poopy pictures.

LOL, fp, that is definitely the funniest thing i've heard in a while, as I pictured that in my mind! WOOH!


I guess with us "old timer pigeon keepers" who have had pigeons for several years, it has become easy for us not to panic if we see watery or strange colored poopies.

I've noticed my birds will have watery poops after medicating, after stress, eating greens. But that is not an issue in itself, until there actually is an issue, like puffiness, not eating, lethargic, throwing up, drinking a lot, etc.

When you have one issue like that then watery poopies DO become an issue, and it is time to isolate, & watch them 24/7, and take action.

The wonderful color poopies I attribute to the greens, the various grits, and things they eat. The blood in the poop, I had that happen one time in one solid poop, and since the bird didn't leave a name on it, I didn't know who to isolate since I have 48 birds. After the one time it was gone and I haven't seen it since. I have isolated various birds for other issues and treated them accordingly and maybe one of them did it, I don't know. It is not an issue as I've either prevented it from happening again or treated it.