Avian Pox Questions

[JGregg]

I helped a pigeon yesterday that I suspected of having the pox, I put it in a box and placed it in the laundry room which is seperate from my apartment. I didn't want it anywhere near my birds. I changed my clothing and left the clothing in the bathroom to wear to animal control (where I took the bird this morning). I will probably use a Lysol product on the carpet and vacuum, shower, and wash all affected clothing before handling my birds. My birds have not been vaccinated for Pox. How worried should I be about transmission?

Here's another question, the vaccine for Pox is a modified live virus if I where to vaccinate my birds how likely are they to develop the disease from the vaccine? Has this happened? How effective is the vaccine?

If any of my birds where to contract Pox what is the treatment?

How long does it take for the virus to develop in infected birds?

[turkey]

I don't have much experience on Pox.

I've taken in two pigeons with it. The second is a current rescue. I washed my hands. I don't put other pigeons in the same cage. I use diluted iodine on their pox spots to help dry it up. Mosquitoes will transmit pox, so pigeons with pox stay inside. It can also be transmitted to other pigeons through the pox scabs that dry up and fall off.

I have not given any of my pigeons the pox vaccine. I got the first pox pigeon in Oct. 2003. He has been in my aviary ever since the pox was gone from him.

I have a photo album titled "Pox" with his pox pictures in it and what he looks like now. He's a different bird.
http://community.webshots.com/user/jujubear29

Julie

[Trees Gray]

Hello,

You say you helped this pigeon? Did animal control say what they were going to do with this bird? This is a disease that a bird can easily overcome with love, attention, nutrition and rest. They just need to be isolated. They have a permanent immunity to it once they have had the disease, and they are as good as new!

If your pigeons have contracted it, and I am assuming you have pigeons, you will know in 4 to 14 days. Unless your birds are around mosquitos, I doubt they caught it from this poor bird, as pox is transmitted thru saliva droplets from the nose and mouth, and the scabs from pigeons with pox.

All my babies get vaccinated for Pox, it is a brush on vaccine. They only get a sample of the pox around where the immunization is given, on their leg. You can use Tea tree oil to dry up the lesions, except around the eyes. Birds need to stay indoors for 6 weeks after immunization. I have seen all immunizations take well, with very minimum side effects.

My rehabber has treated many pigeons for Pox and they are just as good as new, and they never get pox again. Why don't you find yourself a good "pigeon friendly" rehabber who will treat any birds that come your way in the future. I have become very knowledgable about different diseases and injuries because of what I learned from her and all the moderators here.

Treesa

[JGregg]

Thank you for the help Julie.

Treesa:
The bird was dying so I took it to Animal Control to be put down and I don't regret it. Yes, I did help the pigeon. As you may recall I was the one to initially bring attention to Wildcare in San Rafael CA (I live in San Francisco CA) taking in pigeons so please keep your condescension to yourself. If I cared to hear you opinion on the subject I would have asked. For future reference Pox is also transmitted via feather dust.

[dano7]

Even homing pigeon racers, who often get rid of birds for reasons such as poor performance, and who tend get rid of birds that are weak enough to get sick, will routinely let Pox run it's course in quarantine, since typically these lesions will dry and fall out - they just leave it alone.

"The bird was dying" - not of Pox it wasn't. You didn't mention there was any other health issues with this bird, Jennifer. How did you make a life and death - let's say it plainly, how did make a death decision on this bird with such certainty?

Just so know, opinions may be given without your permission.

[phyll]

JGregg,
You have been a member of this forum for almost a year. What possessed you to "help" the poor bird by having it destroyed? You "suspected?" Why didn't you come here first?
You have to know by now that these people
would have given you sound advice.

Being a member for 3 months, maybe I should keep my opinions to myself. Nahh!
In my opinion, you were not very nice to
Treesa ~ she truly cares.
Keeping silent would have been the wrong thing to do.
Unless a creature (of any kind) is in pain that cannot be relieved, do not have it destroyed.

Please get the facts first.

phyll

[AZWhitefeather]

"If I cared to hear you opinion on the subject I would have asked."

Pigeons.com is a forum JGregg, therefore any member certinly has a right to voice their opinion, whether it be, a particular concern, advice, support, etc., as long as it is given 'respectably'.

Treesa is one, of many, who offers very sound advice. Her advice, opinions & support are worthy of being acknowledged. She said absolutely nothing in her post that would warrant a defensive reply.

"The bird was dying so I took it to Animal Control to be put down and I don't regret it."

With all due respect, you failed to mention in your original post the bird was dying, only that you noticed the 'pox'.
What other problems did this bird have?
I believe the point that was being made was:
"If you had posted here, prior to making what appeared to be a snap judgment call to have the bird euthanized, together we could have discussed the situation & hopefully saved the pigeons life."

I'm sorry, & admittedly angered, that the pigeon was euthanized without begin given a chance.
Cindy

[Trees Gray]

JGregg,

I'm happy to see that I really don't have to respond to your remarks as everyone has done that, incredibly well, for me.

However, may I say how unproffessional of you to attack me,you don't even know me!
My first and only concern was for this poor pigeon.

I also gave you first hand information on the Pox vaccine, that you asked about. Did you not see that? How rude of you, to thank Julie, but not me?

Now, I'm going to thank all the members who responded on my behalf, the people here, who do know me.


Treesa

[Marian]

Hi Jennifer,
Some pox info.

There are three forms of pox. The one we mainly see is the dry or cutaneous form, with the wart-like lesions on face and legs. The lesions can also be on the feathered portion of the bird.

The other forms of pox, wet or diptheritic, and septicemic, usually result in severe illness and rapid death. Birds with this form of pox become very ill, feel terrible, stop eating, etc. The dry pox doesn't appear to cause this same kind of distress. Birds with dry pox are still active and still eating/drinking unless the lesions make that impossible for the bird.

Dry pox is a self-limiting disease. Given time and supportive care, a bird can recover from this if it is in otherwise good health.
The supportive care is to give the bird the help it needs while its immune system mounts a response to the virus.

Supportive care may include tube feeding if the bird is unable to eat on its own. Vitamin supplements. Also antibiotics for accompanying bacterial (Clavamox or Baytril) or the fungal infection Candida (Nystatin, itraconazole) infections, and treatment for external/internal parasites (ivermectin, droncit, Frontline).

Mouth lesions are commonly infected with Trichomonas and a course of metronidazole (Flagyl) or carnidazole (Spartrix) should be done.

Supplemental vitamin A (1l,000-25,000 IU/300 grams body weight IM can be given, and vitamin C. These in particular may enhance the healing of damaged epithelial surfaces, particularly if given early in the illness.
A balanced daily dose of the other vitamins is helpful in building the bird's own immune response.

Lesions on face and legs should be kept clean. Some use warm water with a weak Betadine solution (color of weak tea). Non-irritating soap (baby soap) diluted with saline are also used. Creams such as aloe or with vitamin E added, or Blistex have also been used.

The incubation period for pox virus infection varies from several days to over a month, depending on the particular strain of pox, the route of exposure, the species age and condition of the individual bird . Two weeks is usual for pox lesions to appear, but this is not at all a firm rule.

Like many viruses, avian pox is species-specific. There are many different types of poxviruses which are classified according to the particular species of birds that are susceptible---fowl pox, canary pox, pigeon pox, raptors, quail, etc.

Some of the avian poxes have a wide range of birds that they are capable of infecting. Others have a limited host range.

Fowl pox virus can cause a severe illness in poultry birds, and only mild illness in another species, or no illness despite exposure.

Mosquitos and biting flies are the most common form of transmission--direct introduction of the virus into the bloodstream. Once in the bloodstream, pox virus spreads to liver and bone marrow, produces more viral particles in the bloodstream and then the lesions develop.

The virus is intermittently shed via feces or the skin and feather quills. Direct transmission between birds can occur with the ingestion of lesion scabs, feces, and inhalation of aerosolized particles.

The virus shed from an infected bird can contaminate soil, water/food containers, cages, perches, gloves, etc. It is a hardy virus and can survive in the environment, apart from a host bird, for a year or more.

Pox virus stimulates the production of antibodies that protect the bird from reinfection by the same strain of virus for 6-12 months.

Some literature sayd that recovered birds are not carriers. Other literature suggests that some birds that recover from pox may develop persistent infections and intermittently shed the virus via feces, skin and feathers.

Recurrence of pox virus has been induced in birds that are undergoing physical or medical stressors. It is thought that this might be a recurrence of latent pox, but there is also the other theory that the bird in weakened condition is more susceptible to re-infection from a new virus.

Only healthy birds should be vaccinated. If the modified live vaccune is given to a bird that is already infected but has not yet shown symptoms, the virus can mutate to a more virulent form as the field (wild) strain and the vaccine strain combine. It could devastate a flock.

Aside from the literature, I've taken care of over l00 pigeons and doves with pox, without any spreading of the disease to my other birds. They were in the same house but all utensils etc were of course separate, and I bleached everything including my hands during care.

[Marian]

typo---
That is 10,000-25,000IU of vitamin A

[Trees Gray]

Marian,


I gave advice regarding the "Pox Vaccine" only and not the full outbreak. I do give pox vaccines to my youngsters as I live in Florida.

Sounds like you wrote the book on pox and that you are the expert on the pox disease, itself. From what you have written, I am extremely glad I have used the preventive measure in the vaccine. My birds only got one pox where the vaccine was brushed on. Their immune systems were only mildly compromised. We also use mosquito netting in our coops, for further protection.

Thanks for sharing, I will take the information and copy it for future use.

Treesa

[This message has been edited by Trees Gray (edited June 06, 2004).]

[TAWhatley]

Hi Treesa,

Though Marian's post was addressed to Jennifer, I'm sure it was meant for the benefit of us all.

Terry

[Eileen]

Hi there. I am assuming you are all talking about pet pigeons here, & not sick feral pigeons.

I work in a wildlife hospital & deal with hundreds (700+ last year alone) of sick and injured birds (Avian pox, West Nile Virus, Exotic Newcastle Disease, PMV... just off the top of my head) . We try to save whatever we can that can be responsibly released , & there is always a lot of controversy when a pox bird comes in. Some people feel they want to save every animal that comes across their path. If that animal will have a home (legally) when it is better, & captivity will not cause it undue stress for the remainder of its life, then that's fine.

The thing with pox, as one of the prior posts states, is that a bird can succumb to it because:
1) it ended up in a debilitated state, was exposed & caught the virus. With supportive care, often times they can recover & be released.
or:
2) it is a carrier.
It's a tough call to figure out which...

The responsible thing to remember is that you cannot save every life. By saving birds with transmissible illnesses and releasing them back into the wild, you are putting all the other healthy birds in jeopardy. In order to keep the large majority of feral birds in a community healthy, it's something to think of before trying to save all the sick ones.

It's not easy to deal with, believe me, but euthanasia does not always have to be a curse word - sometimes it is a blessing.


[This message has been edited by Eileen (edited June 07, 2004).]

[dano7]

I, for one, don't like your style Eileen, and I don't frankly give a damn how many birds you've "dealt" with.

[JGregg]

You're right, what was I thinking when I decided that the pigeon deserved a humane death? With 20 years of avian experience, how could I possibly make the call that the poor little thing was dying? I should have driven by and let the bird suffocate in its own mucus. This way the bird could have died a natural death.

I should have gone here first....Nobody here jumps to conclusions without knowing all of the facts.