Bumblefoot or ??

[Birdmom4ever]

Happy Easter, everyone! I've been real busy and haven't been on here in weeks.

My little American Fantail hen has what appeared to be a hardened, dried dropping stuck to the bottom of her foot. I thought I could just soak her foot and remove it, but when I examined her, it appears there's a crusty, whitish growth on the bottom of her foot, to which feces had adhered. I was not able to remove it for fear of harming her.

I plan to call my vet tomorrow, but was wondering if any of you had seen this before. I've never seen bumblefoot, so I don't know if that's what this is. It's really not swollen, just thickened and crusty. She is not limping or favoring the foot and seems otherwise healthy and vigorous. She and her mate have a 3 1/2 week old baby. I'm not sure exactly when the problem started, because she was spending a lot of time on the nest, but I know she didn't have the foot problem before they nested.

Thanks,
Cathy

[Reti]

Hi Cathy,
I have no idea what that could be.
I would still soak the foot, even wash it with Dawn and see what happens. Just don't force to remove anything that does not come out by washing.
Reti

[Thunderbird]

It sounds like bumblefoot, you can work it down by rubbing in vitamin E oil daily. Takes 2-3 weeks.

[dano7]

There is upside and no downside to sponging with hydrogen peroxide (while cortisone creams should not be used on our birds for any injury).

[Birdmom4ever]

I soaked her foot again today with warm water and mineral salts and we gently scrubbed it with a toothbrush, but weren't able to remove much material. (I told her she was our only pigeon to get a pedicure.) There are a couple cracks in her foot and we put antibiotic ointment on them.

I looked at her other foot and she has some crusty material on a couple of her toes. Her mate's feet are perfectly clean. Anyway, I'm going to take her to the vet and see what she thinks. She's favoring the foot now, but I think it's from our ministrations.

[maryco]

Hello,

I've seen this before abour 2 years ago, I had a feral with poop stuck to the bottom of one foot, he finally got caught in the trap and when I checked his foot out after picking all the poop off I saw this little moon shape that was black and the bottom of the foot was really swollen.
I prepared a bowl of salt water, I held him for about 10 minutes every hour in this bowl so his leg can soak, meanwhile he got antibiotics (baytril, 5 ml/12 h) and antibiotic cream (polysporin) on the cut when it was not soaking.
I wrapped the foot so he couldn't step in the food with the polysporin.

Every day the would got better until finally the swelling went down and the healing started, in about a month he was fine and was released again!

If you can try the salt water thing, it really helps and Sporty just loved his foot being soaked, it felt really good and the salt cleans the area and draws out the infection.

Mary

[TAWhatley]

Just a point of clarification here .. before giving 5 ml of Baytril to a bird be sure you know what strength of Baytril you have. Baytril commonly comes in a 22.7 mg per ml strength or in 22.7 mg tablets. I think Mary probably meant to type .5 ml for the dose.

Terry

[cyro51]

I get those decimal points wrong too!

Terry is right. I happen to have two bottles of Baytril but the solution in one is 4 times stronger than the other!!!!!!

The dose for the 2.5% solution is 0.1 ml for every 100gms of pigeon. So a 400 g pigeon would get 0.4 ml twice a day.

Cynthia

[Birdmom4ever]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I have Baytril on hand that I bought from Foy's for emergencies, and it has dilution instructions on the bottle. However, I don't see any sign of actual infection on Duchess' foot, so I'm going to hold off on that.

She has an appointment with my favorite avian vet tomorrow. I'll soak and clean her foot again today and apply more antibiotic ointment to make sure it doesn't get infected. I sprayed her for mites, too. I'm wondering if she has scaly mites on her legs and feet. I remember our chickens used to get them and it caused scaly, crusty feet.

[maryco]

sorry I meant Mg, I have 50 mg tablets and I cut them in 8 pieces (6 mg)

Mary



[This message has been edited by maryco (edited April 12, 2004).]

[Birdmom4ever]

Bad news--the vet thinks it might be pox! Needless to say, I'm upset. Duchess and her mate live in a separate aviary, but it's close to the loft, so I'm worried. The vet took a fecal sample and will biopsy Duchess' foot tomorrow. She would have done it today, but it was late and she has to sedate her to do it. We felt it best to let her go home to her mate (they have a four week old chick). She has no lesions around her eyes, just the crusty stuff on her feet.

Have any of you seen a case of pigeon pox? Because I haven't. The vet and I are hoping she's wrong and it's actually bumblefoot. She said they can look quite similar.

[This message has been edited by Birdmom4ever (edited April 13, 2004).]

[Chikory's Inner Chicken]

One of my pigeons, Brownie, recently had bumblefoot. What you are discribing dosn't sound like it though. Another option the vet looked at when trying desipher what it was Brownie had said it might have been gout. Dunno how to spell that. That's actually worse than bumblefoot though. Brownie had to have an operation on both his feet to get it removed, hes ok now. But I've never herd of soaking and rubbing to get it out as it's under the skin, you must cut into the foot to get it out.

Anyway, I also had 2 pigeons with pigeon pox. I was told they don't get it after a certain age, only young pigeons get it. With older ones it is more rare. Theirs went away with very little trouble, we used iodine. Then again the vet was not too sure then either, so it may have been somthing else. They find when people bring birds in they get them put down if the problem isn't easily fixed (birds are cheaper than dogs, thats why). So I guess the vet should be paying me! I seem to be letting them get some training done with my birds. Anywho, I hope all works out well with your pigeon and that she is ok.

~Chikory

[Birdmom4ever]

Thanks, Chikory, that helps. This little hen is probably about a year old and I've had her for 3 1/2 months. When your pigeons had pox, did they have lesions on their faces, or just on their feet? Duchess doesn't have anything on her face. Everything I read last night about pox said they usually have lesions on their faces. I'm really hoping this isn't pox.

Their baby is fine so far. We don't have any other really young pigeons.

[Trees Gray]

Hi Birdmom,

Here is some information if it is pox:

My pigeons had a sample of it from the pox vaccination, on their legs. It is a yellow hard bump. If you live in a mosquito climate you should immunize your babies at 6 weeks.
Yes, they can get it in their face, crusty lesions around the eyes, around the beak, on the feet, and around the anus, in full outbreak.

It is transmitted via saliva droplets, from the nose and mouth, seldom from droppings.
Here in Florida it is transmitted via mosquito bite. Once they have had pox they are immune to it.


I'm sure your vet will treat for secondary bacterial infections with an antibiotic. You can use topical treatment of tea tree oil, except around the eyes or mouth.

Treesa

[Birdmom4ever]

Hi, Treesa. From what you say, it sounds suspiciously like pox. We have some mosquitoes, though not in huge numbers, and we've had an unusually warm spring. How likely do you think it is that the others will get it? Duchess, her mate and chick are in an aviary a few feet from the loft, so there's been no sharing of food, water or anything else.

I asked the vet if I should vaccinate the others, but she said it was too late. (Now of course I'm royally kicking myself for not vaccinating them.) I'll ask her today if there's any actual harm in vaccinating the other pigeons. I should think it would be worth it to vaccinate at least the four pigeons in cages on the patio, far from the aviary. And it's possible even the loft pigeons haven't been exposed, unless via mosquito bite. So far, everyone looks okay, but I realize they may simply not be symptomatic yet.

Duchess herself does not seem lethargic or in any way different than she normally is. She's not even favoring the foot in question.