concerned about some advice & sense of urgency...

[cathbe]

Hi. This is a wonderful site but I have a concern about something that happened here recently. I am very new to this site so I've only read a few threads but I did read the thread from a person here named Kristy who posted that she found a baby pigeon earlier this week. I'm concerned that the feedback she got did not give her a sense of the sense of urgency. Let's remember some people know nothing about pigeons and this may be the ONE place they are going to go. She was wondering why the pigeon wasn't eating more and she clearly had a baby which she knew but she did not know that it wouldn't have been able to eat on its own or that it's mother would still be feeding him or her at that point(I contacted her privately and told her this - she had no idea - but the pigeon had already died). I think it's important that what the person is dealing is conveyed straight off if possible. Sometimes people make one initiative and that's all they are going to do. It wasn't suggested to her that she contact a rehabilitator until much later and in my opinion that is what she needed. What I think this is VERY important - we need to really determine the person's level of familiarity with pigeons and the length of time and care they are willing to put into the situation. If one or both is minimal, then they need a rehabilitator or a vet or something. I'm also wondering if some questions need to go a wildlife rehabilitation board. When I go to the wildlife rehab message board I'm familiar with, I know that they will ask me a lot of questions AND give me a sense of the sense of urgency. I know people have hesitations about some rehabilitators; that's why it's amazing to be able to share information here. And I know there may be a few rehabbers on this board but there are boards populated with numerous rehabbers who can be really helpful. I don't think people may have realized the depth of this poster's inexperience. The bird may not have made it no matter what. I am sure for this one post, you all have helped NUMEROUS people which is so wonderful. I am only speaking to this one post which I observed and to offer some 'food for thought.' Thanks.

[AZWhitefeather]

Hello Cat, Welcome to pigeons.com
After reading your post, I went back to review Kristy's two threads.

Cynthia, Nooti & you responded with very good advice & questions, however I didn't see where Kisty replied.

"We need to really determine the person's level of familiarity with pigeons and the length of time and care they are willing to put into the situation."

This can only be accomplished if the person communicates with us.

"I don't think people may have realized the depth of this poster's inexperience."

Unless I missed a thread or post, Kristy didn't post after her initial post, therefore it would be impossible for any of us to know the depth of her inexperience.

You have raised some good points Cat & as important as it is to offer advice in a timely manner, it is equally as important for the receiver to stay in contact with us as well.

I don't believe she posted informing us her pigeon had passed away. I am very sorry to hear this.
Cindy

[TAWhatley]

Hi Cath and thank you for this post and for your concern for the well being of all the birds that come into the care of our members. I think we can all make a better effort to assure that timely and proper advice is given to any member asking questions and/or trying to rear a baby bird or care for a sick or injured bird. Thus, what I perceive to be the point of your post is well taken, and I, for one, will try to do better in the future.

On the other hand, you and others responding in the Kristy thread somehow got off track and thought she was in New York City (NYC) when according to her profile, she is actually in Rocky Mount, North Carolina. I mention this just to make my own point that it's easy to be hasty, make assumptions, not double check the facts, and then end up going off in the wrong direction. A lot of time and effort could have been wasted trying to get a New York City rehabber to take in a North Carolina bird.

I am truly very sorry the little bird died. You will note, however, that Kristy did not come back to the board to tell us that.

In defense of myself, the other moderators here, and the members who freely give of their time, experience, and emotions, I must say that it is extremely frustrating to have people come to the board literally begging for help and then either not bother to post again or to totally ignore the advice given.

Just some of my thoughts ..

Terry

[Nooti]

I went looking too to see what went on, as I have so many posts to respond to here asking for advice that I tend to forget. I see Kristy never replied to either post she started and left us talking to thin air although I can see where we could have said more, if she doesn't reply we cannot judge her experience or otherwise.
I agree Terry, some of us feel very frustrated at the lack of feedback or the advice being ignored. I have it on the owl board too. I've just despaired as I have been trying to help someone with an owl they found concussed in the road and I told them it needs to eat at least 5 mice each day to stay healthy, how to check pupil response to make sure eyesight is fine before release and to make sure they don't release too early before the blood clot in the brain has had chance to disperse properly. Usually takes 2 - 3 weeks and in their last posting they commented on how tame it was - that's because it's been knocked into the middle of next week and is waiting for the rest of the world to catch up with it!
What do they do? They feed it one mouse in three days - that's a lot of stored fat gone from the bird which will weaken it greatly- then they release it - without checking eyesight is normal - which it won't be so soon after the accident. As far as I am concerned, they've released a weak bird with compromised eyesight, and their final sentence was - I hope he lives a long and happy life!
Don't you just sometimes feel like throwing the towel in?
Helen - disgruntled, and now going to work. Hope my boss appreciates me more. (big giggle) :-)

[cyro51]

I am sorry I seem to be at fault here.

I don't think that any posts should go unanswered for long periods, so I will always try to post when there has been no response, if only to say "hang on in there someone will be along soon!". But I am usually either on my way to work with seconds to spare between walking the dogs and seeing to the pigeons or at work . At work it is disciplinary offence to access the internet for personal use, so I have to try to get and give the information as quickly as possible. This is why I often have to limit myself to giving links to the most useful sites like Devorah's that give all the information that I could possibly give...in this case I thought the quantity of food and feeding method described on the emergency feeding link would be sufficient to pput the poster back on track.

I always check the profile to see where the poster is, in case they are in the UK (in which case I would be able to help) or near another member in the US. In this case I would have done it automatically but had forgotten by the time I read the reference to NYC and assumed wrongly that this meant that Cathbe was saying that the poster was in NYC. My fault again.

Cynthia




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All beings are fond of themselves, they like pleasure, they hate pain, they shun destruction, they like life and want to live long. To all, life is dear; hence their life should be protected.

-Mahavira

[TerriB]

Please don't beat yourselves up! You all expend huge amounts of time, energy, and patience helping folks and some of us REALLY appreciate it. Perfectionists can burn themselves out so I would hope that you cut yourselves some slack. We realize you have lives and commitments outside this forum and you do what you can. You have provided support to a huge number of "wee beasties" and their caregivers! Thanks!!

BTW Cynthia,
Your signature quote is wonderful!

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Terri B

[TAWhatley]

Cynthia, please don't feel you are at fault in any way. You responded as quickly as you could, gave links to good information, and just got sidetracked with the NYC thing. Personally, I greatly appreciate the effort and devotion you put into your moderator duties here at pigeons.com!

Terry


[This message has been edited by TAWhatley (edited February 21, 2004).]

[cyro51]

Thanks Terry. You should see me looking over my shoulder furtively at work to see if anyone is watching me go on pigeons.com, feeling equally guilty about breaking the rules by accessing as about the need to speed read the posts and bang out a response in seconds (though I sometimes do that in word then copy and paste). And all the time I know that my access is being recorded by the office systems administrators anyway, so someone somewhere knows what I am up to.

Cynthia

[cyro51]

Hi Terri,

As far as I know that quote is 400 years old! How enlightened Mahavira must have been.

Cynthia

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All beings are fond of themselves, they like pleasure, they hate pain, they shun destruction, they like life and want to live long. To all, life is dear; hence their life should be protected.

-Mahavira

[Lin Hansen]

Know this thread is a week old, but just had to respond...I know Cathbe means well and is right about many points, but please.....all of you great people on this site, please do not feel guilty about anything!!! When I found an injured pigeon and knew nothing about it, this was the only place I found that I could turn to and I got immediate responses and help. Cathbe, I was one of those people you were afraid of...the ones that really did not know all of what the moderators were talking about, but the thing is...if you care, you will ask more questions and do more research to find out what you need to know. This site and the people on it are absolutely priceless when it comes to helping people (and pigeons too!) and sharing knowledge. Helen, I can really relate to the story you told about the people who fed the poor bird one mouse in three days and then released it to live happily ever after....I think I can say that is the novice's fantasy...I saw myself in spritesister's post when she said that she wanted to discover her bird magically good as new and ready for release...that's what I wanted too. Unfortunately, that is not how it usually goes.
I think the people on this site do a great job considering that most of the people who know nothing (like me), rescue a bird out of pity, but then do not know what to do next.
Not all vets will be bothered w/ feral pigeons and even if you find one, a novice who is just being a good samaritan may balk at the costs involved for a bird that is not a pet. Even finding a rehabber or shelter is difficult when it comes to pigeons. I found one and I still can't reccomend it whole heartedly b/c after I drove 2 hrs and wreaked my truck (it's true, blew the engine..it's dead..a miracle I made it home)I called to check up and found that they don't keep records on pigeons, b/c they are not native to the U.S. I was still assured that they do everything they can and non releasable birds are kept in their aviaries for educational purposes...but who knows?
ANYWAY...I am going on, I know...but the point is....Please all of you, keep doing what you are doing to help everyone who turns to this site for advice. Maybe not everyone is capable or willing to follow your advice, but let me assure you...You are providing a priceless service to people in need. I thank all of you again and best wishes

[cathbe]

Hi. I'm so sorry it took me so long to reply. I just have been so busy and I was afraid I may have offended you. I, too, have been dependent on a wildlife rehabber board - similar to this one - and know when you don't know alot, how important it is to find a board like this! but I guess when I read Kristy's post I really sensed that she knew very little to nothing and maybe I felt there was an assumption in the responses that she knew what she was doing. I did learn later that she was in NC but I don't think that threw anything off(it was my first visit to pigeons.com and for some reason I thought it was NYC-oriented). When I did email her personally, she was a little bit like "oh well... i wondered why the bird wasn't eating, i did what I could..." so yeah it's too bad she didn't come back to the board and say what had happened. Or even that the bird wasn't eating much. Anyway please don't feel badly and thank you for all the advice and help you are offering!