Dilemma: Leave them be or relocate?

[Mrsboz99]

Hi all,

I need some expert advice. There is somewhat of a battle being waged at work, where the two King Pigeons I've posted about previously have settled in.

One camp here wants to leave the pigeons alone. They see no reason to remove them to some home where they'll be caged and no longer free. They seem content here, and we provide good quality food and water. Major worries if they stay though, are hawks and weather (and I guess lack of other pigeons..not sure how important social systems are for them). Some of these biologists feel that nature should take its course though, and if they don't make it, then that is the cycle of life, meanwhile they are living free and their needs are being provided for. Sure winter is coming, but they are not tropical birds so they should be fine if we continue to provide food and water.

The other camp wants to find them a home with someone experienced in keeping pigeons. That way they'll be safe from the upcoming winter weather, as well as from predators. Sure will be couped up (or do most people who raise pigeons allow them to fly at least part of the day) but they'll live a longer life and they'll be around other birds.

Selfishly I'd love to have them stay, and I am committed to provide good food, grit and water, but I am worried about how they'd fare through the winter, and about the hawks, so I'm torn.

Any thoughts or advice?

-Tara

[AZWhitefeather]

Hello Tara,
As I can only offer my opinion, I must say, both camps have good points thus making any decision a difficult one.

If the pigeons were afforded an aviary to reside in where they could fly about without having to worry about predators or the weather, then I would probably choose that option.

Is there any chance an aviary could be built where the pijjies are now? A team project perhaps?

Whatever decision is made, you are doing a wonderful job of caring for them.

Sorry I couldn't have been more help.
Others will be on shortly to give their suggestions.

Good luck in whatever the outcome is to be.

Cindy

[Trees Gray]

Hi Tara,

I might have missed something here, but are these "king" pigeons feral or domestic? That would determine my decision.

If they are wild or feral they should be left wild, but if the are domestic pigeons they should get some kind of protection that a small coop with aviary would afford them.

It would be ideal if you all could build them a coop, since the two pigeons have "adopted" you guys. If they are free flying and haven't left, they have already made the decision...

Treesa

[Snowbird]

The two arguments, well stated, represent the conundrum faced by many of us in many contexts. The wild life is definitely much shorter--and sweeter since birds I release usually decide to go their wild home rather than stay--but yes shorter than the aviary life without any question, even if the aviary has a fly out system. Many years difference in expected life span--outside ferals may get to 2-3 years age and aviary birds can go up to 30. Also, king pigeons are heavier and definitely easier to catch for a Cooper hawk, though their size makes them hard to hold and they are prone to escaping with serious injury and then dieing if not found by a sympathetic human. And if the birds have no other flock, they have too few eyes to watch for the hawks and this is a critical disadvantage as well. The very best solution is a fly out aviary where they can have a shot to hit the sky and still have shelter and nutrition and a chance for a long life. Someone must have such a loft in your area. Some racers use such birds as "droppers" to get the race birds to trap. I hope you can get creative with this idea. Also, if those king's are white there are people who value them for the "white dove" release business.

[Mrsboz99]

Originally Posted by Trees Gray

Hi Tara,

I might have missed something here, but are these "king" pigeons feral or domestic? That would determine my decision.

I think they are domestic. They seemed pretty lost when they first got here, and seemed like they were losing weight until we started feeding them. They don't act like most pigeons I've seen in parks etc. They aren't afraid of us...they aren't fidgety or nervous when we approach them. They'll even walk right within inches of us, though they won't let us actually touch them. Hehe, it is SO cute, when they are hungry, they fly down to the ground and wait near their feeding area, so when I come out with the food, they quickly walk up to my side and follow at my feet as I walk over and put their food down. When they are done they'll wander over to where I'm watching and hang out with me for a few minutes. So adorable!

I called them King Pigeons because our director here at Natural Heritage thought they appeared to be. They are twice the size of a normal pigeon! If they seem to be something else though, I'd love to know!

Originally Posted by Trees Gray

If they are wild or feral they should be left wild, but if the are domestic pigeons they should get some kind of protection that a small coop with aviary would afford them.

As I said, they appear domestic, but if ferals could act similarly, then I could be mistaken. Remains of birds with similar feathers were found down in the Wildlife Management Area so our current hypothesis is that someone dumped their pigeons here, and the others got caught by the hawks. These two have some missing tail feathers so maybe they barely escaped the same fate. Poor things!

Originally Posted by Trees Gray

It would be ideal if you all could build them a coop, since the two pigeons have "adopted" you guys. If they are free flying and haven't left, they have already made the decision

Hehe, they are definitely free flying. They don't actually fly much though. two or three times a day we see them go for a few loops around the area (our building is on a hilltop overlooking a Wildlife Management Area) but other than that they either sit on the trailer roof or sit on the main building's balcony or roof. They have been here over a month and have not once left for more than a quick flight, so as you said, I think they have made their decision on where they want to be. I thought they might leave last week, when a feral pigeon flew in for the afternoon. I looked up and suddenly there were three birds sitting on the roof. Man did that feral one look tiny compared to ours hehe. It was hilarious though, the white bird did not seem to like this new addition. It kept walking right at the little grey one until it went off the edge of the roof. This went on for quite awhile. Our charcoal pij seemed to like the company though. One of our bird people thought the white one might actually be a male and was trying to mate with the new bird. I don't know though, our pigeons seem like mates...they are never more than a few feet apart, they preen each other and touch beeks often (feeding each other maybe, or just nuzzling?). Does that sound like a mated pair? If they are, they mate for life right, so it would be unlikely the male would go after a new female right in front of its current mate? Aaanyway, our birds could have flown off with this wild one and joined that flock, but they stayed put. The feral one was gone by evening and we haven't seen it since.

-Tara

[Mrsboz99]

Originally Posted by Snowbird

The two arguments, well stated, represent the conundrum faced by many of us in many contexts. The wild life is definitely much shorter--and sweeter since birds I release usually decide to go their wild home rather than stay--but yes shorter than the aviary life without any question, even if the aviary has a fly out system. Many years difference in expected life span--outside ferals may get to 2-3 years age and aviary birds can go up to 30. Also, king pigeons are heavier and definitely easier to catch for a Cooper hawk, though their size makes them hard to hold and they are prone to escaping with serious injury and then dieing if not found by a sympathetic human. And if the birds have no other flock, they have too few eyes to watch for the hawks and this is a critical disadvantage as well. The very best solution is a fly out aviary where they can have a shot to hit the sky and still have shelter and nutrition and a chance for a long life. Someone must have such a loft in your area. Some racers use such birds as "droppers" to get the race birds to trap. I hope you can get creative with this idea. Also, if those king's are white there are people who value them for the "white dove" release business.

So many good points here. The hawks are definitely a big concern for me. Especially since the big hawk migration is due in a month and a half. With that many around, and, as you said, without a flock to help them keep a lookout, I'm not sure how well they would fare

I think finding an existing loft around here is likely the best idea. I would LOVE to build something at work for our little buddies, so I could see them every day, but realistically, the more I think about it, the more I worry. Who would look after them while I'm away? What if I moved? What if the Natural Heritage program was shut down (a risk for us every year), or if new management came in. I can't guarantee that in a year or two, folks here would still welcome them and help take care of them. So, this is perhaps not the best place for them to be.

Wow, I just got a message from a wildlife rehabber in my town. I told her about our situation and apparently she knows someone in town who raises pigeons. She is going to go check it out for me. That would be sooo great...and being so close I could visit them too! Keep your fingers crossed!
If it sounds good, I'll go introduce myself and take a look at the place. I'll keep everyone updated!

-Tara

[AZWhitefeather]

our pigeons seem like mates...they are never more than a few feet apart, they preen each other and touch beeks often (feeding each other maybe, or just nuzzling?). Does that sound like a mated pair?
Yes, indeed they sound like mates & they seem to have found their home.
Have you looked around the grounds to see if they may have a nest tucked away?

When they appear to be feeding each other, that's called 'billing' & this is done prior to mating. Be on the look out for a couple babies in the future.

Please keep us posted.

Cindy

[Mrsboz99]

When they appear to be feeding each other, that's called 'billing' & this is done prior to mating. Be on the look out for a couple babies in the future.

Oh wow, how cute would that be! VERY good to know that though...if we do find them a safer home, we will have to be extra thorough in checking the area for a nest. If they have one already, would they spend all their time around it? They currently split there time between the roof of the trailer and the metal balcony on the main building (which has a grill bottom so you can see up through the slats). Neither place has a visible nest. If they were raised domestically, would they know how to build one though? Well, I'll keep an extra eye out and we'll see what happens. I'll definitely post pics if any little ones come along

-Tara

[Trees Gray]

Hi Tara,

My domestic pigeons know how to build nests, as long as they are given the right materials to build one. Pigeons don't build the greates nests, but they serve the purpose.

If you start seeing only one at a time, the male in the morning, the female in the afternoon, then they are probably nesting somewhere. They take turns laying on the eggs, with the female having the majority of duty especially at night.

I always provide extra snacks at all times so both female and male have access to the food, as well as rest and relax and enjoy life while off duty. I keep their little swimming pools out and rewash during the day, also.LOL


Treesa

[Snowbird]

Originally Posted by Mrsboz99

When they appear to be feeding each other, that's called 'billing' & this is done prior to mating. Be on the look out for a couple babies in the future.

Oh wow, how cute would that be! VERY good to know that though...if we do find them a safer home, we will have to be extra thorough in checking the area for a nest. If they have one already, would they spend all their time around it? They currently split there time between the roof of the trailer and the metal balcony on the main building (which has a grill bottom so you can see up through the slats). Neither place has a visible nest. If they were raised domestically, would they know how to build one though? Well, I'll keep an extra eye out and we'll see what happens. I'll definitely post pics if any little ones come along

-Tara

Hi Tara,

Good work. Though they are a mated pair, you cannot be sure if the cock bird was chasing the new bird away, or seeking a casual mating opportunity which not affect his bond to the mate.

I sure hope you can locate them in an aviary/loft soon. Your added details, there size and there apparent domestication, indicate that their chances in the wild are almost zero, and I would get them "off the street" as soon as possible. good luck