Do pigeons spread bird flu?

[Feefo]

There is a suspected H5N1 case in the UK...as usual the ignorant are pointing at pigeons instead of realising that the danger lies in the transmission of the virus from infected waterfowl to domestic poultry and that the people in most danger of contracting the virus are those who slaughter, defeather and basically butcher domestic poultry.

Even then, before being a crisis it would have to infect someone that already had the flu virus, mutate and move on in its mutated form to another person.

This is the summary of a risk assessment of the potential role of various free living birds (including feral pigeons) in the spread of Avian Flu. The full report can be found at http://www.defra.gov. Look under Avian Influenza and then under risk assessments.

My understanding is that pigeons can catch it with difficulty through direct contact with dead or sick waterfowl) but so far have not been known to spread it to other pigeons, other birds or people. They are basically regarded as "dead-end hosts".

In addition to wild waterfowl, natural infections with H5N1 virus have also
recently been reported in other free living avian species and free living and
domestic animals. The issue has been raised as to whether these species
also play a role in the epidemiology of the H5N1 virus in avian species in
general and in animals.

This risk assessment concludes:

a) The currently available evidence indicates that exposure of various free
living avian species and free living and domestic animals to HPAI H5N1
virus is likely to result in death following close and direct exposure to
the virus.

b) In epidemiological terms, this development is consistent with the
concept of a self-limiting disease (a ‘dead-end’ host).

c) The recent pattern of the virus detection in these species indicates that
these species became infected because of localised introduction and
exposure to the virus from other species rather than horizontal
transmission within the species concerned.

[kittypaws]

Thank you for the information Cynthia - I hadn't heard of it in pigeons but as you say there is a small risk because they are a bird - but the actual risk is so tiny. I shall print out the post and read chapter and verse to some of my more ignorant colleagues and friends.

Tania

[Larry_Cologne]

http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/dise...e/ai/index.htm


Also, with a (free) googlemail.com email account I have google alerts.

With this free service I have google search:
the news, or the web, or the web and news, or groups,
for:
avian flu (or whatever term or terms you enter), and get an email
either once a day, as it happens, or once a week.

I am now geting a daily list of ten to fifteen current articles pertaining to avian flu. If the same article appears in several newspapers or news feeds, the list shows this.

[Birdmom4ever]

Originally Posted by cyro51

My understanding is that pigeons can catch it with difficulty through direct contact with dead or sick waterfowl) but so far have not been known to spread it to other pigeons, other birds or people. They are basically regarded as "dead-end hosts".

[/i]

Cynthia, that's what I've read, too. My pigeon manuals and several recent articles by avian vets all state that pigeons are very resistant to avian influenza. The most recent article I read (in Pigeon Debut magazine) stated they can sometimes catch H5N1 but as you pointed out, they don't readily pass it on. I'm more concerned about what will happen to pigeons, both feral and domestic, because of people panicking over the disease than I am about them being threatened by the disease itself.

[Feefo]

Oh, good! It has been touched on briefly in the BBC News question and answer series:

Question: I have handled an injured pigeon, am I in danger?

Answer: PIgeons are not thought to be carriers. But again, it is best to wash your hands

http://http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/he...794.stm#spread

[Camrron]

I just caught a news clip on TV tonight about a case of H5N1 in England. They are doing exactly what I predicted they would do. Visiting bird keepers, fowl farms, chicken coops etc within a geographical radius of the outbreak. Just something to keep in mind as I said before. This is the normal process used by gov't to stem or eradicate problems. Cooped pigeons are/will be at risk of destruction from gov't folks if the situation looks like it is getting out of control....

Cameron

[SmithFamilyLoft]

Originally Posted by Birdmom4ever

........ I'm more concerned about what will happen to pigeons, both feral and domestic, because of people panicking over the disease than I am about them being threatened by the disease itself.

God help us, if people start dropping dead here in the USA, there will be a wholesale slaughter of back yard flocks of anything that move. And the bodies and structures will then be burned to the ground, and then they will ask a few questions, later.

There will be storm troopers...I mean health officials, knocking on doors asking "Any pigons here " ? Think I am kidding ? What measures do you think "Home Land Security" will take, when they start talking of 3 or 4,000,000 dead Americans ? No bird anywhere, will be safe !

[Birdmom4ever]

Warren and Cameron, that's exactly my fear. My neighbors all know I have pigeons, so I'm also concerned about being "turned in" by an anxious neighbor. I'm sure if there's an outbreak the government will destroy birds first and ask questions later, as Warren said. Last I heard they expected avian flu to reach the West Coast first. The END debacle in Southern California a few years ago is still fresh in my mind.

[SmithFamilyLoft]

I realize that this is largely paranoia, but reality says that here in USA, all that is necessary, is for the secretary of agriculture, to issue some emergency proclamation, and any living bird in a certain zone, could be terminated with extreme prejudice. Any interference with government workers carrying out this task, will be met by the full force of local, state and federal law enforcement agencies. We all know, that if need be, this can mean using tanks, and burning you out if necessary.

[Rooster2312]

I live in Dundee, east Scotland, which is 20 miles from the outbreak in Cellardyke, Fife. Here is the link for our local newspaper if anyone is interested in reading about the situation over here.

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/output/2...y8204146t0.asp

Lindi

[TerriB]

Originally Posted by Rooster2312

..Here is the link for our local newspaper...
Lindi

Thanks for the link, Lindi. I always find it interesting to see what the local paper says on something like this.

[Feefo]

Thanks Lindi.

As I have over 50 pigeons I checked the registration requirements and confirmed that pigeons are only classified as poultry if they are bred for meat.

I have been making a point of reading the more florid nationals and even they are taking a sensible approach. One had a bit from Myriam Stoppard that answered the question about how humans can catch bird flu and the answer was the it can pass from waterfowl to chickens and then to humans, but with difficulty.

Hopefully that sensible approach will stop people from panicking and thinking that the skies are filled with birds carrying a virus that is easily transmissible to humans.

There was a mention that people are already and unnecessarily slaughtering back yard flocks, I just hope that they don't do this with aviary birds etc.

Cynthia

[John_D]

From Q & A on avian flu, April 7th:

Q What should I do about pigeons?

Microbiologist Prof Hugh Pennington says that residents should not worry about pigeons unless they are in very close proximity. He says: If they were nested in your front room and they were dying, I would be concerned. Other than that, I wouldn't worry.

At present, pigeons are unlikely carriers and pigeons simply flying close to people are not thought to be a risk. It is, however, wise to carry our basic hygiene procedures if in contact with pigeon droppings.

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/07042006/17...questions.html

John

[Camrron]

I don't know for a certainty what the future will bring and I guess no one else does either. I do think though that it is a mistake to allow too many people (and especially gov't agencies) to know that you have, or are keeping birds of any kind.

Here at pigeon-talk we are able to source commentary that supports the conclusion that pigeons are not a health risk insofar as bird-flu is concerned. The general public is not, unfortunately so interested in our fine tuned comments, proofs, arguments and logic. When push comes to shove and the **** hits the fan, joe average will do and believe whatever he sees and reads in the press. And the press is not our friend as we well know after reading the ignorant published stories about "pigeons with their beaks cut off".

For those who recall, a so-called RSPCA expert determined that a disease had caused the problem with those birds. Thus exaserbating and complicating a very difficult problem.

I think my point is, and has always been, that our voices are in the minority. What we read and write here, what we say to comfort ourselves is not in any way sufficient to protect our birds if and when it all comes down. Other steps need to be taken.

Of course the bird-flu epidemic has not yet happened for people. It is however already happening for migratory birds and domestics like chickens. Let's not be deluded that joe-public will make the distinctions that we do (here at pigeon-talk) about which birds are safe and which are a threat when H5N1 arrives on the North American continent. Or even the British Isles. Joe public will react according to whatever ignorant thing gets published as he has no personal involvement with birds of any sort and will not be ready, willing or able to discern truth from fiction.

That is the threat in a nutshell. I have encouraged more discussion on this issue every time avian-influenza has come up on PT. I guess I have not come right out and said it, till now, that we must all be prepared to address bad information in the press as it happens. Be ready with arguments, proofs, articles, thesese, facts, information etc etc, etc. to counter the bad press that is sure to follow. We may be a small group but we can nonetheless mobilize and be prepared for battle should it arise.

Our strength will be in our ability to get our own thoughts across to the media before any ignorant ideas become mainstays of the public domain to be repeated and spread by media consumers everywhere. That is the nub of it really. Being like boyscouts, getting our ducks in a row and being prepared to deflect any bad press once it arises.

And it will arise. I have seen it first-hand. So have some of you. Let's not underestimate the power of the media when it comes to our friends.

(I am not on a soapbox incidentally. Just speaking the plain truth about what we are faced with.)

Cameron

[The pigeon man]

Do you guys think if it ever gets to the united states (seattle,washington) we will have to get rid of our pijjies and all other fowl?? I hope not