Egg Bound!

[Amber]

Hey Guys! It's always nice to know I have somewhere to go when I need help, and have people who are understanding.
It seems like everything that happens to me is very drastic, like trying to burn down the loft mixed with samonellalosis etc. Y'all have been a great help. Now my problem is an egg bound hen. I need to know some sort of protocol to follow if I ever run into this again. If you dont remember my job is to care for pigeons for a show, and I have about 45 of them. 10 of them are breeders, and the rest fly in a show. The ones who dont fly are kept in concrete lofts with no material to build nests and so they dont breed and all has been good. In January I do not care for the pigeons. I received a phone call to come in and look at one of the flying pigeons who was "swollen". When I got there I realized she was eggbound.... to the point that 1/2 of the egg and her uterus was outside of her body. I called a well-known breeder who said most of the time you can push the uterus back into the body and that the body should take care of the rest. I was able to remove the part of the egg that was outside of the body and then gently pushed the uterus back in. I could still feel egg shell inside, but was told the body would absorb it, and that the uterus may still be out a little, but that it would retract. It still didnt look promising, but it was all I could do. I'm not sure how long she had been that way, and she did pass away this morning. I feel so horrible that this happened and wondered if you knew of anything else to do, or maybe should not have done. Other than a Vet, because since these are not my pigeons, I cant take them, I can only do the best that I can. Thank you in advance for your help.
Amber

[TAWhatley]

Oh Amber,

That is so sad. Almost always when an egg gets broken inside or half in/half out peritonitis sets in and the bird dies from a horrible infection.

In the future, I would try providing additional heat for the hen, soaking her in very warm water, lubricating the vent area, and hope like crazy that she will pass the egg on her own. You had a double edged sword going .. egg bound and also prolapsed. I would say that the odds of saving this bird were close to zero without significant veterinary help and probably not too good even with such help.

I'm so sorry .. still some of these "old timer" stories really, really irritate me .. a broken egg inside a hen is almost certainly a death sentence in itself .. for the hen to also be prolapsed is yet another coffin nail. I don't know where these folks get their anecdotal information, but in my opinion, it was poor information. Granted, the bird was probably too far gone to save, but still people should not be giving "goofy" information like this.

If I'm wrong, somebody please correct me.

Terry Whatley


[This message has been edited by TAWhatley (edited January 15, 2003).]

[maryco]

I'm so sorry about your hen

I had an egg bound feral myself once and she was one of my first pijjies.
She fell off my balcony (Which is the fourth floor) down to the floor on her back and the egg broke, I ran down to get her and she was lying in the grass, her pupils were very large and she had her legs stiff towards the back while she opened her mouth wide as if she was screaming but no voice coming out, It was horrible... She couldn't even stand and when she fell over she just lay there with her mouth open, I could see the pain in her eyes that were wide open. Imagine the egg breaking in her while she fell off the balcony

Me and my mom could pick out yolk from her vent, It was like hard boiled egg, she was all swollen and all. We used oil and everything, I had alot of help from this site.. Everyone gave me such good advice and stood by while the poor pijjie really needed it (I appreciate it very much)

She survived though and I released her after taking her to a wildlife rehab.. This was a miracle (thanks to God!)

I have read quite abit about the egg bound when I had her and I remember on one site it said to turn on the bathtub water to hot until steam starts to form everywhere in the bathroom then bring your bird in for awhile, That should heat and relax her muscles to help pass the egg.

Again, I'm so sorry about yours..

Mary

[AZWhitefeather]

What an awful thing to have to go through Amber.
I have a question for either you or Terry:
Having zero knowledge about pigeon breeders, I would think they should have known something was amiss before tragedy set in. After all they are 'Breeders'. If they 'breed' these birds they should be aware of the complications that can surface & take immediate action, to include contacting their vet.
Amber, you did a wonderful job in attempting to save this poor bird, & you should be commended, but where was the vet?
Perhaps I am missing something here & you can explain to me what it is.
Cindy

[raynjudy]

The last thing you want to do is to break the egg inside the hen!

I have on good authority that an egg can be massaged out of the hen without breaking it, but, like crop feeding, this takes know how.

A soak in warm water and some lubrication around the "vent" would have been useful.

Was a first egg laid? If not, a second will surely follow, and with broken egg shell and such in the way, this complicates things.

Egg binding is usually the result of calcium defieiency. This can be difficult to reckon before a problem like this occurs. At any rate, this pigeon should be given calcium supplements to avoid the problem again.

This business of making little pigeons is very tough on the hens. The building blocks of the shell leech the calcium reserves from the hen--as does the calcium-rich yolk of the egg, leaving the hen depleted of calcium.

Calcium depletion is dangerous in birds, as calcium is an electrolyte and vital to neuro-muscular function--which includes walking, standing, and laying eggs. I've seen apparently paralyzed birds get up and walk hours after a calcium booster!

Others will be along to elaborate on this subject...

Wish you'd have come here first, but I understand the circumstances you were faced with at the time.

Next time, set the bird in warm water for a spell and lubricate the area carefully afterward. Never break the egg inside the hen!

Antibiotics may now be necessary, as may surgery.

--Ray

[Navigator]

Sorry, Amber.
The information you received from the breeder was maybe overwhelming to you in your time of need.
I sometimes misunderstand what someone has told me as I don't hear too well and may miss a word or two throughout the conversation.
I have experience egg binding with chickens and found that if lubricating does not work, the steam method usually will.
As for the prolapsed oviduct, you can push it back in, hold in place for several minutes while keeping the bird calm. After a few minutes, apply a liberal amount of sugar to what is still exposed and hold for another several minutes. The sugar will help to contract the tissue. I have even heard of folks using Preporation H, but I have never tried that.
The breeder was right in saying that the body would absorb the remainder of the broken egg. After all, this is what causes Egg Peritonitis. Death does follow.
Calcium deficiency is the major cause for the binding, so please recommend to these people that they provide pigeon grit (one of the ingredients in it is crushed oyster shells).
I hope you never have to experience problem again. Good luck.

[Amber]

Thank you for all of your advice, let me answer some of your questions, so you can understand my dilemma.

You may remember, my story about the girl who cared for the pigeons b4 me, and she got histoplasmosis. I took over caring for the pigeons. I am knowledgable about animal care and health for I have worked for many vets, but dont have much experience with birds, but my background has been helpful. So I am the one who breeds them, medicates, and cares for them. I am also not allowed any veterinary care for one pigeon. If they all got sick, say pigeon pox, the I MIGHT be allowed a vet call. This is my major dilemma, if it was my own, I would have gone to the vet, but they are not, so I cant. My information for emergency situations comes from a man who bred pigeons for Disney. He has a years of loft experience, and has always been right in everything he has helped me with. When I told him what it looked like, he said he had never heard of one that bad. I did not break the egg! It was broken already, that was part of my dilemma. Also, I do have ALL of my birds on grit with calcium, with extra calcium available for my breeders. This pigeon that I am speaking of was NOT a breeder, was a flyer...in an enviroment which does not normally allow them to lay eggs, nor have they ever laid a single egg. I am not sure if she had developed the egg, and if before she was able to reabsorb it, she fell and the egg broke in her and she could not reabsorb it or what? My breeders do great and I have never had an egg bound hen. That is why this is a rarity for me. The advice I have been given here is the same advice I was given by the breeder, so other than veterinary care to stitch the oviduct, I dont think there was anything else I could do. The sugar is an interesting idea. As I wrote in my first email, there is not a next time for this pigeon, nor antibiotics, nor surgery, she did die. Thank you Terry for confirming some thoughts for me. I felt horrible for this pigeon, but for the way it looked, it didnt seem like there would be anyway she would make it. And Cindy, I'm not sure if there is anyway to tell that an oviduct is going to prolapse, until it does. I will find out more info and let you know. I am not sure though if I every experience a prolapsed oviduct with a broken shell again, if I should even put the pigeon through the suffering that this one went through, especially if it means death anyway. This is sooo sad I hope noone else has to experience this!
Amber

[AZWhitefeather]

Hello Amber,
I'm quite sure rehashing all of this is about the last thing you want to do right now. I just wanted to thank you for responding so quickly with answers & hope that you are doing OK.
You certainly did your job & that is what counts.
What I really don't understand, Why are you NOT allowed to contact a vet??
Cindy




[This message has been edited by AZWhitefeather (edited January 16, 2003).]

[cyro51]

Hello Amber,

I am so sorry that the pigeon died but thank you for raising the subject. I think that we all need to be reminded to look out for these things and to learn what we should and shouldn't do!

Cynthia

[Amber]

Thank you, yes it is hard for me. I am not one to let any animal sit by and suffer, without trying to help. Cindy the reason why I am not allowed to take a pigeon to a vet is because these pigeons are part of a business, which means money is a factor. When the breeding pigeons are productive, we do not have to buy pigeons, when they arent we do. Since I have been caring for them, we have not had to buy any, they are doing great. IF we had to buy pigeons, they cost between $50-$75. It would cost much more to take the pigeon to the vet and have it fixed than it would to just terminate it and buy a new one. That is where the problems of animals being used for any sort of entertainment/food becomes a problem. Their life becomes essentially worthless and is just a dollar sign. Unfortuantly this is the reality, for people love shows, circus', and zoo's. It becomes a business. Not to say that every time something happens that I dont ask to take it to the vet, because I do. Like the say..try, try, and try again. Unlike most pigeons of memebers at pigeons.com, they are not pets, they are workers. I am as close as it comes for these pigeons to have someone who cares/loves them. Trust me, they are very lucky compared to what they had before, and that is why now they work and produce much better than they ever have. I am a member of PETA, and in a heartbeat would have taken that pigeon to a vet with my own money. However on the day I received the call about this one pigeon, I was in a surgery waiting room, because my husband had been hit by a car while walking through a parking lot. So with him not working, and me being laid off, my husband in the hospital, having 3 big dogs, 7 cats, a snake, and the nearest vet 45 miles away, I did the only thing I could with what resources I had available. It is just a bad situation mixed with really bad timing. I rescue lots of animals using my own funds but I just couldnt do it this time. I hope this explains more about why not the vet. It sucks really bad, but unfortunatly, it is reality in alot of businesses. Thats why we all have to do what we can to not only help pigeons, but all animals that are used in business, to assure that they are being treated like one of god's creatures, not just like a commodity.
Amber

[raynjudy]

Amber said, in part, "Thats why we all have to do what we can to not only help pigeons, but all animals that are used in business, to assure that they are being treated like one of god's creatures, not just like a commodity."

Would it be, the rest of humanity had your humanity, Amber. Maybe someday...

I'm sorry for this little hen and for your husband's misfortune.

PIGEONS FOREVER!!!

--Ray

[Afra]

I just read this entire topic and I must say that I am deeply sorry that the poor pigeon passed away. I'm sorry for what you had to go through. I'm hoping you have better luck next time.