Feral Mortality Rates

[Snowbird]

This is not a pretty picture but it underlines the need for a pigeon contraception program (good contraceptive does not yet exist) combined with quality of life support programs for ferals world wide. These statistics obviously have variation, however the data is very large and from several countries.

* Males have a longer life span then females.
* 30% of feral pigeon adults die before their first birthday; 50% before their second birthday; 70% before their third year; 80% before their fourth year. A six year old bird is rare and the oldest recorded feral was 9 years old. This does not mean that flocks with good human support won't beat these odds.
* 34% of all adults die per year.
* 43% of first year birds die per year.
* The lead, mercury, cadmium (tires), etc. in the inner city habitat limits the life expectancy of pigeons because the road dust has a high percentage of these pollutants. This is one reason why hens die sooner in such environmnts--they need more grit to replace calcium in the breeding season and they eat more of this poison dust unfortunately.

[Lin Hansen]

Hi Snowbird,

Man oh man, those statistics are alarming....and an eye opener. What a shame the mortality rate is so high...so many poor birds just born to die.

However, the key part of your statement is this: good contraception combinedwith quality of life support programs.

With those high mortality rates, it would almost be a bad thing if good contraception existed. I am sure it would be used to a "fare thee well" by those who think there are too many "flying rats" already. Without so many being born to replace the too too many that are dying too soon, couldn't the species become endangered? I know it appears there are pigeons "all over the place" already, but this is a thought to consider, right? Or am I being dramatic?

I agree w/ what you said (I alwaysagree with what you say..lol), but it just scares me that unless real support systems are put in place for the birds that are already here, contraception programs used irresponsibly could decimate the species.

What do you think?

Linda

[Snowbird]

That's where the battle will be fought. A contraceptive will be developed it's just a matter of time. The ugly people and pigeon lovers can both use it but obviously they would use it to kill all pigeons and I would use it to control the numbers so that it would be manageable to feed and shelter them as the asset to community they are. The war to change peoples perspective will never be won if there are too many birds, stresssed birds and people seeing too many of these poor birds fouling up their precious property. It's the battle of Trafalgar Square everywhere.

The passenger pigeon clearly proves that every pigeon could indeed be killed. However it is the pigeons reproductive genius, one of their many stellar qualities, that gets them in trouble. It has been stated that if they were not common they would be better received and this is true. Pigeons have a long breeding season because they are seed eaters and don't need to feed meat to the youngsters--predators can never get enough meat year round to breed so prolifically. Also, a leading avian guy has said that pigeons crop milk is a particularly effective strategy for successful child rearing and most birds don't have it. I don't expect success, but I'll have fun anyway. As we've been discussing, Linda, our personal feral flocks are experiencing a population explosion (lol)--good health leading to excellent breeding and the hawks can't touch my birds.... it has to go somewhere.

[John_D]

I agree, Lin

I know it appears there are pigeons "all over the place" already, but this is a thought to consider, right? Or am I being dramatic?

Yes, in large cities there are lots of pigeons, but the public perception (I believe) of large numbers is because they tend to gather at certain times and places and are therefore more visible. As you say, it 'appears' they are everywhere.

I think, aside from the huge urban centers (London, NYC, etc.), there are fewer than people might imagine and, as Snowbird points out (and I've seen similar statistics), they do not live up to their potential lifespan.

In the UK, the Wood Pigeon is estimated to be the most numerous species, and there are vast tracts of the UK where you will never see a feral pigeon, even in towns.

A humane population control program, like the PICAS method or by use of a genuine contraceptive (not the stuff used in mainland Europe), may not be a bad thing in the most densely (pigeon) populated cities but not, I believe, in general.

John

[Trees Gray]

They tried pigeon population control in Amsterdam, by putting it in their feed, and it didn't work! My sister told me that some years ago.

Yes, we need quality life support systems, and I have talked about it earlier. The governments should be made responsible to create a park, a protective haven for pigeons, where they have pigeon cotes designed for nesting. Someone should be hired to overlook it,feed and water the pigeons, remove eggs and replace with dummy eggs, daily. This would prevent the increase of the populaton. There should also be preventive and nutrition programs set up for the pigeons, to prevent disease and keep the birds healthy. There should also be a rehabber and vetenarian on call for emergencies.

The park could be designed with museum about pigeons,historical info. about pigeons, the ones that flew in the wars and all current info. (pigeon racing, pigeon fanciers) anything to educate the children! There should be pigeon shows live with performing pigeons, that have been trained to do wonderful tricks. just like Busch Gardens. Charge admission so people can pay for the park, as well as gain access to feeding the pigeons, (those people who love to feed them) in a safe area.

All this should be implimented by those that have knowledge about pigeons, everyone here! this should be started first in those cities where the most needy pigeons are.

Skye has volunteered to be mascot and welcome everyone at the pigeon paradise!!LOL

Treesa

[Lin Hansen]

Snowbird,

Yes, I knew right away you were talking about "your" flock in regard to contraception...You and I are trying to keep "our" flocks well fed and healthy, but as you said, it can get difficult when the flocks keep growing and growing, so yes, in our case, contraception would be a good thing to help keep the flocks healthy and manageable.
And John, you are right too...keeping growth to a minimum in densely pigeon populated areas may help improve the lives and health of the birds already there and also help deter the negative attention the huge flocks sometimes attract.
It's kind of a catch 22, isn't it? I hate these pesky ethics questions, don't you? lol
If the mortality rates are so high in some places, using birth control may not allow the pigeons to replace the losses adequately. But, among flocks w/ human support, keeping the numbers down would be beneficial to the flock.

I HATE these issues that make me think so hard!!!! LOL

Good topic Snowbird....should encourage some interesting posts.

Linda

[Snowbird]

Great ideas Treesa; that's a real dream. I volunteer to be the loft manager.

There is no viable contraceptive available and that's why they fail--they require constant administration which will not happen, or they have untenable side effects, or other problems. When an effective one comes up there will be battles against those who would strive to exterminate our friends, but just as a good loft manager switches eggs to maintain a population consistent with the carrying capacity of the loft, it would be the same if you put something safe on the feed to address birds with inaccessable nests. But your dream solves the problems if it could only be.

[Christina Coughlin]

Wow! Where did you find this information at? A wild bird rehaber friend of mine (she started the whole bird mess with me ) helped me out when I got my poor injured feral Hudini. I called her and she told me that pigeons in my area are quite strong and the only things that kill them are Hawks, people (poisoning), and cars. She has never had a true feral die from a dog or cat attack only the loose ones from peoples yards. Next time I talk to her I will tell her about this, she loves having this kind of information to present to kids that "rob" nests and trap birds for no reason as well as the well meaning ones that actually do some good.

I knew that the life span of "wild animals" was very short but when you see the facts right there it is still so sad. It gives me even more amazment at the little cotton-tails that have chosen my yard as a safe haven not only for themselves but for the many little ones, I love it that our land is "crawling" with wild bunnies. The sad part though is that even though we do have about 5 acres some of the babies really don't have much fear of us. While we have done nothing to cause this since we are such firm believers in leaving animals were they belong, it is still a close space with people and they come in contact with people every morning and evening.

Its sad but it does prove that we humans need to get over the "dominion" thing and start taking care of what God gave us or we won't have anything to control!

[Snowbird]

Hi Christina

Feral Pigeons

R. Johnson & M Janiga 1995