Four eggs in a nest????

[Nooti]

Ok, How's this......
One morning I find Smut on a nest with an egg. She seems to be sharing the nest with a white pigeon, who I assumed was a male. Actually I am uncertain of the sex of both of them, but I have seen many cock birds courting Smut so placed her as female. The white mate looked female too but I put him down as a small male. 2 days later there are 2 eggs and they settle down to incubate. 2 days later.... surprise! There are 3 eggs in the nest, and 2 days after that there are 4!!!!! About this time I realised that cock birds were serious displaying towards the white 'male?'
So we have 2 hens paired up and sharing incubation duties with 4 eggs in a nest. Not a male in sight.
I can hear you saying now - well these eggs will not be fertile. WRONG! All 4 are fertile, (God knows who the opportunist father is, or are.) I checked the first 2 at 72 hours, and have just checked the second pair this morning, as they are now at 72 hours. There are embryos in every one.
I have another pair who are incubating and their eggs are infertile so I have placed the second pair of eggs under them. They are however due to hatch 3 days later than this pair's eggs were due. This gives me a problem as I reckon they will abandon the nest just before the eggs chip. I can put them in the incubator for the last couple of days, but then I have no parents to rear them. Ok, I can hand rear- I have enough experience, but for the next 13 weeks I am taking a full time course on computer technology and cannot see me being allowed to take a brooder with two babes in and feeding every two hours + I would not be able to keep up the night feeds and use my brain during the day. My idea is this.... to take the eggs out the day after the parents think they are due, to ensure they are not abandoned and go cold while I am out, and to put in one of the chicks from the first pair of eggs which will have hatched by then and be about 24 hours old. This will keep parents interested. If all goes to schedule - 2 days later these eggs should hatch in the incubator and I can slip them under their foster parents, replacing the first chick back under Smut and the white one. I hope you understood all that! - Any opinions or advice anyone?

[robo squab]

Hi Nooti!

I have had a nest with 4 eggs even 6 but they certainly were NOT fertil your situation is really dificult I don't know anything much except that there is a slight possibility that the pair which you want to give the eggs to will sit a little longer on the eggs it happens some times with my pigeons but mine are feral so i don't know if there would be a difference all what I know is that you have an unbelievable thing I never thought that there could be such a thing like 4 eggs fertil anyways great luck and I hope everything goes well with your pigeons keep us posted on any developments Thanks Robo Squab

[WhiteWingsCa]

Nooti:

Are the "foster" pair younger or older birds? Have they raised babies before?

We find with the older pairs, they do tend to jump off the eggs practically the day they're due to chip, if nothing is happening. Younger ones seem to sit 3-4 days past the "due date" for some reason.

I think too, if the eggs are fertile, and babies are growing and moving in the egg, the parents "know", and will stay on them.

Three days isn't a long time to "over-sit" a nest -- we've had them sit tight for almost 2 weeks past!

If you want to play "switcharoo" as you mentioned, you can, but why not leave a chick and an egg under each pair...then you don't have to worry about the incubator and all. Once the second set hatches, put the two larger babies together again.

I went into some detail on fostering and switching babies in a thread called "fostering eggs/babies", and I also mentioned our "threesome" in a thread about "same sex parents", if you want to go back and read what I typed then (pretty long to repeat here)

good luck!

[Nooti]

Thanks for your reply Robo Squab. I thought it was highly unusual that they be fertile, but there it is. And not a father in sight!
My guess is the father is one of three dominant cocks in my loft, Scops, Griz or Silverpidge. All three hold a Master's degree in sexual harrasment.

[quote]Originally posted by WhiteWingsCa:
[b]Nooti:

Are the "foster" pair younger or older birds? Have they raised babies before?

Both the foster parents and the pair of hens are actually only 8 months old and breeding for the first time. I realise that they may sit for a day or two over, if they will just sit until the eggs chip..... well once the eggs are chipped they will carry on sitting then as long as the chicks are making noises and obviously still alive.
I had thought about swapping and putting one egg and one chick under each pair.... then obviously I will have to swap them back, however, I have just realised something else..... which my fogged brain did not at 5am this morning when I discovered they were fertile.
When the first egg of the second pair was laid, I wasn't thinking straight and left it in the nest. Really, I should have pulled it because Smut and the white one were incubating, so this first egg, due 1st April - note the date! is 2 days ahead of the second egg, due 3rd April and will hatch 2 days earlier..... I thought there was a discrepency in the size of the embryos when I lamped the eggs this morning.
Hah! That means the first to hatch will be stronger and the second will not get much chance at the food......
However....... the first pair will by then be 4 - 5 days old and big enough to go for a few hours between each feeding.... so, despite me doing this course I could pull them out for hand rearing and put one each of the second pair in each nest.
What with not knowing the fathers.... or which hen laid which pair of eggs..... this is going to mess up my meticlous record keeping...... give me orphans to worry about in classes and etc, etc...... what on earth possesed me to start keeping pigeons anyway??
Ridiculous idea!!!!
LOL
Helen